Best 9mm Pistol for Self Defense?
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Ed Ames
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Limp wristing can happen. In one of my various range trips, one guy couldn't fire three rounds in a row from a 1911 that works flawlessly for me.
It is mostly a training issue. Once you have practiced the "right way" you may never be able to do the wrong way again, without ever really realizing the difference (which I think - could be wrong - comes down to arranging your hand so force transmits to the large bones of your arm the way it would if you were punching).
It is mostly a training issue. Once you have practiced the "right way" you may never be able to do the wrong way again, without ever really realizing the difference (which I think - could be wrong - comes down to arranging your hand so force transmits to the large bones of your arm the way it would if you were punching).
shooter1
Member
For carry and home defense, no question, Glock 19. For range use either the Hi Power or the CZ will shine. My CZ 85C is the most ergonomic and accurate 9mm I own, and my favorite. My Hi Powers are great pistols but the safeties are too small for my liking. USPs that I carried at work were the least ergonomic, needlessly complicated pistols I ever carried. When we went to Glocks, I was actually happy.
Now you have my opinions, for what they're worth. It's time to make up your own mind. None of use can actually do that for you. Better still, buy more than one. Good luck!!
str1
Now you have my opinions, for what they're worth. It's time to make up your own mind. None of use can actually do that for you. Better still, buy more than one. Good luck!!
str1
armoredman
Member
5 Shots said:
...really...
Hides under a big t-shirt even in AZ summer weather. Wearing it now. Works great. Pistol is full sized CZ SP-01 Phantom. Holster is a High Noon Down Under with straps on a High Noon Rock Steady gun belt. The belt really makes the system.
Just yankin' the chain, amigo, thanks for the opening to post a pic. When it gets all the way down to brass tacks, this is the truth.
There isn't a bad gun on your list.
If I was going HK I'd go P30, the ergonomics are much better on that gun. The USP is a bit blocky, like the Glock, maybe more so. I've not heard anything bad about them, but personally I hate HK triggers, although I shoot them fine.
The CZ75 gets raves from almost all it's owners. It's a heavy gun, but if your not carrying this shouldn't be an issue. I don't personally like the slide design, to me it leaves to little slide to grab when racking the firearm. I've never had the privilege of firing one.
The Browning Hi-Power is a great tight shooter. Most need trigger work and better sights out of the box. My beef is that I believe they are overpriced for a gun that could use a few updates. When you start getting into semi-custom 1911 price points, you'd better add a lot of custom features.
The Glock is hard to beat. I shoot my 19 (gen3) as good as any gun I own including two Kimbers. If Glocks fit they are hard to beat. They have the best out of the box trigger of the guns you mentioned with a positive tactile reset. As far as I'm concerned, Gen 3 19's need three low cost upgrades. For HD, you'll need Night Sights, an extended slide release lever, and I like a stainless guide rod..
Bur you're not going to buy any of those four guns and feel like you made a mistake. All are serviceable, dependable and accurate for that application.
If I was going HK I'd go P30, the ergonomics are much better on that gun. The USP is a bit blocky, like the Glock, maybe more so. I've not heard anything bad about them, but personally I hate HK triggers, although I shoot them fine.
The CZ75 gets raves from almost all it's owners. It's a heavy gun, but if your not carrying this shouldn't be an issue. I don't personally like the slide design, to me it leaves to little slide to grab when racking the firearm. I've never had the privilege of firing one.
The Browning Hi-Power is a great tight shooter. Most need trigger work and better sights out of the box. My beef is that I believe they are overpriced for a gun that could use a few updates. When you start getting into semi-custom 1911 price points, you'd better add a lot of custom features.
The Glock is hard to beat. I shoot my 19 (gen3) as good as any gun I own including two Kimbers. If Glocks fit they are hard to beat. They have the best out of the box trigger of the guns you mentioned with a positive tactile reset. As far as I'm concerned, Gen 3 19's need three low cost upgrades. For HD, you'll need Night Sights, an extended slide release lever, and I like a stainless guide rod..
Bur you're not going to buy any of those four guns and feel like you made a mistake. All are serviceable, dependable and accurate for that application.
armoredman
Member
Aha, CountZero I see you found the civilian legal prototype of the Glock carbine...very concealable in shoulder rig and black cape.
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Depends on if SD includes concealed carry. For concealed carry, weight is a factor. I know all about quality holsters and belts, and carried 1911s for three decades - but for carry, lighter is better.
For range work, heavier is better as long as you can handle the weight. Recoil in most compact and larger 9mms is pretty mild, but the heavier guns are sweeeet on the range. I found my CZ75 superior to every BHP I've ever shot in the trigger performance, but YMMV.
I currently own a CZ75B, Sig SP2022, a G17L, a G19, a G26, a G34, a M&P 9c, and a Shield in 9mm. Any of them will do the job for a nightstand gun. The Sig is a great pistol for the money, as is the CZ - and the Sig is lighter. I carry the Shield any time I'm not carrying the G26. The G26 is a hoot to shoot - it's very fast and scary accurate. I took first place in "A" at the local GSSF Indoor shoot with my stock G34, two points behind the Unlimited winner. My wife loves the 9c and the 75B.
That all said, if I had to choose just ONE, it would be the G19. All of my Glocks are Gen3s, and I also own two in .40S&W, one in 10mm, and five in .45acp. The G19 (or G23 with a LW 9mm conversion barrel) is small enough to conceal, easier to shoot well than most of the others, and has been 100% reliable.
For range work, heavier is better as long as you can handle the weight. Recoil in most compact and larger 9mms is pretty mild, but the heavier guns are sweeeet on the range. I found my CZ75 superior to every BHP I've ever shot in the trigger performance, but YMMV.
I currently own a CZ75B, Sig SP2022, a G17L, a G19, a G26, a G34, a M&P 9c, and a Shield in 9mm. Any of them will do the job for a nightstand gun. The Sig is a great pistol for the money, as is the CZ - and the Sig is lighter. I carry the Shield any time I'm not carrying the G26. The G26 is a hoot to shoot - it's very fast and scary accurate. I took first place in "A" at the local GSSF Indoor shoot with my stock G34, two points behind the Unlimited winner. My wife loves the 9c and the 75B.
That all said, if I had to choose just ONE, it would be the G19. All of my Glocks are Gen3s, and I also own two in .40S&W, one in 10mm, and five in .45acp. The G19 (or G23 with a LW 9mm conversion barrel) is small enough to conceal, easier to shoot well than most of the others, and has been 100% reliable.
There is not a bad choice to be made between the BHP 9mm, the CZ 75B 9mm, the HK USP and a Glock 17 or 19. I own a BHP, CZ-75B, HK USP 40, and a Gen3 G-17. I would also include either a Sig P-226 (mine is a .40 S&W), a Sig P6 / P225 (I have a P225) or a Sig M11-A1 (I had a P228).
CZ makes a full line of lighter weight alloy, and polymer framed guns. I carry the 75D PCR, lightweight alloy framed, compact version of the CZ-75. Then there is the P-01, RAMI, and P-07, as well as several other variants. You don't need to carry the all steel, full size 75B if you don't want the weight.
Any of those would be fine BHPs and CZs are plenty durable for +p use.
Me personally I don't like Glocks the ergononics suck for me. The USP and CZs DA pull is really hard for my short finger to reach luckily but they can both be carried cocked and locked.
I sold my USP 45 and my CZ 85 Combat because of the trigger reach issue I did buy a CZ75 tac sport but it's really more of a range toy. My BHP is an early one and has been worked over and is IMHO a near perfect SD pistol. Not on your list but I also really like my SR9 as the trigger gets me back to my revolver roots, My STI GP6c it's like a CZ with a shorter DA reach and a 1911 like SA trigger and the wifes Sig P226 the trigger reach is a little long for me but it shoots good and all of them are boringly reliable.
Me personally I don't like Glocks the ergononics suck for me. The USP and CZs DA pull is really hard for my short finger to reach luckily but they can both be carried cocked and locked.
I sold my USP 45 and my CZ 85 Combat because of the trigger reach issue I did buy a CZ75 tac sport but it's really more of a range toy. My BHP is an early one and has been worked over and is IMHO a near perfect SD pistol. Not on your list but I also really like my SR9 as the trigger gets me back to my revolver roots, My STI GP6c it's like a CZ with a shorter DA reach and a 1911 like SA trigger and the wifes Sig P226 the trigger reach is a little long for me but it shoots good and all of them are boringly reliable.
powwowell
Member
I too have owned all three.
I just don't understand all the Hi-Power endorsements. It is a fine pistol that can be shot loose with a steady diet of +p. The trigger is not user friendly. SA only. Magazines with over 13 round capacities are problematic. And, at around $1,000, they are much more expensive than the CZ, or Glock. Maybe that's why I never see one at the range?
The CZ 75B is more robust than the Hi-Power. And less expensive to buy. DA and SA.
I hated Glocks from the moment I first laid eyes on them. Went years before firing one. Circumstances caused me to shoot a G19, at the range. I'm embarrassed at how fast my mind changed about Glocks. Within a week I had my 1st Glock. I own and have owned only 9mm Glocks. What I like about Glocks: 1) the plastic, that I disdained, is tough and it is LIGHT,2) high round count for the size of the pistol, 3) very simple to work on (modify), and few parts. No special tools required. Can be completely stripped with a nail. 4) accurate. My favorite Glock, for everything, is a generation 2, G17.
I just don't understand all the Hi-Power endorsements. It is a fine pistol that can be shot loose with a steady diet of +p. The trigger is not user friendly. SA only. Magazines with over 13 round capacities are problematic. And, at around $1,000, they are much more expensive than the CZ, or Glock. Maybe that's why I never see one at the range?
The CZ 75B is more robust than the Hi-Power. And less expensive to buy. DA and SA.
I hated Glocks from the moment I first laid eyes on them. Went years before firing one. Circumstances caused me to shoot a G19, at the range. I'm embarrassed at how fast my mind changed about Glocks. Within a week I had my 1st Glock. I own and have owned only 9mm Glocks. What I like about Glocks: 1) the plastic, that I disdained, is tough and it is LIGHT,2) high round count for the size of the pistol, 3) very simple to work on (modify), and few parts. No special tools required. Can be completely stripped with a nail. 4) accurate. My favorite Glock, for everything, is a generation 2, G17.
shooter1
Member
One of my Production/SSP class pistols is the CZ 85 Combat. Of the shooters I usually squad with five or six shoot the CZ Shadows. All were built by Matt Mink. The double action pull on these guns has to be experienced to be believed. The single action is--------well, for lack of a better word, GREAT! These guns are fed more ammo in a year than most shooters will shoot in a lifetime. I've yet to see a cracked frame.
My game Glocks are the 34/35 and sometimes the 19. All of which just keep on running. Accurate and boringly reliable.
My High Power, after removal of the magazine disconnect, trigger job, hammer replacement, is reliable and accurate. It runs great with 15rd mags. One of my favorite shooters.
I have good holsters and belts for all of these pistols, both IWB/OWB. My choice for carry? The Glock 19 in a "Theis" IWB. I have smaller 9mms and .380s I carry on occasion, but usually it's the Glock. I've never had a malfunction with the Glocks that could be attributed to "Limp Wristing". I've tried to make it happen without success.
Again, I'm betting that any of the four pistols you named will do what ever you want it to do. I'd carry any of them with confidence. Pick one and practice with it, they are all natural pointers if you train.
str1
My game Glocks are the 34/35 and sometimes the 19. All of which just keep on running. Accurate and boringly reliable.
My High Power, after removal of the magazine disconnect, trigger job, hammer replacement, is reliable and accurate. It runs great with 15rd mags. One of my favorite shooters.
I have good holsters and belts for all of these pistols, both IWB/OWB. My choice for carry? The Glock 19 in a "Theis" IWB. I have smaller 9mms and .380s I carry on occasion, but usually it's the Glock. I've never had a malfunction with the Glocks that could be attributed to "Limp Wristing". I've tried to make it happen without success.
Again, I'm betting that any of the four pistols you named will do what ever you want it to do. I'd carry any of them with confidence. Pick one and practice with it, they are all natural pointers if you train.
str1
Armor Snail
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Nice to see a mention of a GP6c.
Although STI stopped distribution IIRC.
They are still sold though simply as a Grand Power K100.
Awesome gun. Rotating barrel like a Beretta, manual safety like a CZ.
Light weight, straight shooters, reliable.
One of the shortest reset available on a factory trigger.
I'm considering one myself.
I also carry a CZ75 almost everyday.
It's really not that heavy.
What did folks do before all these poly guns? They carried like men and didn't whine about a few ounces. Lol
Also if you are considering a BHP there is the Arcus98. It takes BHP mags. It is an alloy framed DA/SA though with a manual safety.
Another good shooter.
I'm just going to throw my free perspective out there, with the disclaimer that you're getting what you paid for it:
I'm not super familiar with the individual guns that you're considering, so I'm going to talk more about generalities and concepts. I think you're going in the right track thinking about reliability. I'm also wondering if there is a reason for looking at only relatively full size service pistols. I'm not saying that can't be carried and concealed, and I'm not denying that they are easier to shoot, but I know that for me, I'd be looking for something a little smaller, and definitely thin.
I do carry a 1911 from time to time, but I prefer to carry an M&P Shield. Just saying, there are a lot of good guns out there that might serve you better.
Hope this helps,
Chris
I'm not super familiar with the individual guns that you're considering, so I'm going to talk more about generalities and concepts. I think you're going in the right track thinking about reliability. I'm also wondering if there is a reason for looking at only relatively full size service pistols. I'm not saying that can't be carried and concealed, and I'm not denying that they are easier to shoot, but I know that for me, I'd be looking for something a little smaller, and definitely thin.
I do carry a 1911 from time to time, but I prefer to carry an M&P Shield. Just saying, there are a lot of good guns out there that might serve you better.
Hope this helps,
Chris
PistolPete45
Member
What ever you like the best .. Consider the FN 9 mm as well why not make this a hard a possible Kimber makes a 9mm I love my Kimber 45 . I hear tri tak has good guns as well don't forget the Beretta 92 . What feels good in your hand grip trigger sights is the thing A lot of good guns out there ..
Armor Snail
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I don't recall anywhere the OP stating he intended to conceal it.
I and many others like me only carry full size service pistols. Some of us can conceal fine, some print and could care less, others simply don't hide it.
I and many others like me only carry full size service pistols. Some of us can conceal fine, some print and could care less, others simply don't hide it.
"Self Defense."
Lacking any other description of it's use, we are left with the most common interpretation. If you plan to defend yourself out and about your 1,000 acre ranch, plenty carry a rifle. Having indicated a pistol, it's more likely an urban setting, and with 9mm, it's an inexpensive enough and plentiful round available in a lot of loadings.
So far, no foul. So, if it's "self defense," it's likely not at home, it's out and about town or a city, which means carry on body to maximize having a gun to defend yourself at all times. It does little good to have it in the car or a locker when you need it. All common conceptions of what we all do carrying in "self defense." Lacking any other explanation or clarification, I see the OP asking about what to carry in daily life.
It's arguable it's not concealed at all, which would make the choice of any of the four acceptable. An OWB gun carried on the belt. What comes into consideration is if that is what he wants - a double stack duty gun with over 15 rounds of ammunition on his belt, all day long.
Most who don't have to carry that way on duty choose a lighter firearm. It's a comfort issue, we don't wear heavy soled biker or woodcutter's boot every day for just a fashion statement, and as we get older, we change. Those who carry a large double stack auto pistol have frequently reported they eventually move down in barrel length and capacity. It happens to meet their level of comfort.
That's why it comes into question whether a double stack large frame pistol is the ideal. Sure, it works for some. It also does not work for others. And in their experience, they came to different decisions.
First, self defense statistics show that most urban confrontations happen at close range - three feet. Most have about three shots fired. And most of the firing happens in less than three seconds, which doesn't mean that the individuals involved weren't in conversation for a longer time. What happened was that one determined the other was presenting a lethal threat, drew, and fired.
Under those specific conditions, the double stack large frame duty gun offers no direct overpowering advantages compared to a smaller, single stack gun. It might carry more ammo, but less than seven rounds meets the requirements. It might have a longer sight radius, but at "whites of their eyes distance," getting a sight picture may be more endangering as it extends the gun into their zone of entrapment. No sights at all are not unusual in carry guns.
It boils down to how the user wants to operate the trigger - and whether a safety is engaged, or not. Two big schools of thought on that. First, does he want a light or heavy trigger pull, second, does he want the safety one requires, or not? The pistols chosen offer both.
High Power - SA
CZ75b - SA/DA
HK USP - SA - DA or combinations
G19 - semi cocked DA
Most of the other features are similar, the issue is what trigger the OP prefers, and whether a safety should be involved separately from the trigger.
We can recommend any one of the pistols, or a revolver, the issue really rests with the OP - what does he prefer in triggers and safeties?
Lacking any other description of it's use, we are left with the most common interpretation. If you plan to defend yourself out and about your 1,000 acre ranch, plenty carry a rifle. Having indicated a pistol, it's more likely an urban setting, and with 9mm, it's an inexpensive enough and plentiful round available in a lot of loadings.
So far, no foul. So, if it's "self defense," it's likely not at home, it's out and about town or a city, which means carry on body to maximize having a gun to defend yourself at all times. It does little good to have it in the car or a locker when you need it. All common conceptions of what we all do carrying in "self defense." Lacking any other explanation or clarification, I see the OP asking about what to carry in daily life.
It's arguable it's not concealed at all, which would make the choice of any of the four acceptable. An OWB gun carried on the belt. What comes into consideration is if that is what he wants - a double stack duty gun with over 15 rounds of ammunition on his belt, all day long.
Most who don't have to carry that way on duty choose a lighter firearm. It's a comfort issue, we don't wear heavy soled biker or woodcutter's boot every day for just a fashion statement, and as we get older, we change. Those who carry a large double stack auto pistol have frequently reported they eventually move down in barrel length and capacity. It happens to meet their level of comfort.
That's why it comes into question whether a double stack large frame pistol is the ideal. Sure, it works for some. It also does not work for others. And in their experience, they came to different decisions.
First, self defense statistics show that most urban confrontations happen at close range - three feet. Most have about three shots fired. And most of the firing happens in less than three seconds, which doesn't mean that the individuals involved weren't in conversation for a longer time. What happened was that one determined the other was presenting a lethal threat, drew, and fired.
Under those specific conditions, the double stack large frame duty gun offers no direct overpowering advantages compared to a smaller, single stack gun. It might carry more ammo, but less than seven rounds meets the requirements. It might have a longer sight radius, but at "whites of their eyes distance," getting a sight picture may be more endangering as it extends the gun into their zone of entrapment. No sights at all are not unusual in carry guns.
It boils down to how the user wants to operate the trigger - and whether a safety is engaged, or not. Two big schools of thought on that. First, does he want a light or heavy trigger pull, second, does he want the safety one requires, or not? The pistols chosen offer both.
High Power - SA
CZ75b - SA/DA
HK USP - SA - DA or combinations
G19 - semi cocked DA
Most of the other features are similar, the issue is what trigger the OP prefers, and whether a safety should be involved separately from the trigger.
We can recommend any one of the pistols, or a revolver, the issue really rests with the OP - what does he prefer in triggers and safeties?
The OP has not shown an interest in any other guns besides what he mentioned.
The OP seems to prefer the Glock more than the others and his only concern was limp-wristing.
It appears to me that the OP plans to carry the gun he purchases.
I think it's about time the OP makes another appearance.
The OP seems to prefer the Glock more than the others and his only concern was limp-wristing.
It appears to me that the OP plans to carry the gun he purchases.
I think it's about time the OP makes another appearance.
SuperCubPilot
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You're right. Sorry for staying quiet. Have been reading responses diligently.
Yes. I do, by far, prefer the Glock to all the others, but my only concern is limp wristing while injured. I do plan on carrying this weapon concealed as well.
SuperCubPilot
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I like the Glock due to it's mechanical simplicity and simplicity of operation. There's not a lot of gadgets to fiddle with, you just draw and shoot. I will not consider ones that require a double action first pull. Getting that first shot off quickly is very important to me, and although flicking off a safety can become muscle memory, it's just one more thing that can go wrong, one more thing you have to fiddle with. That said, if I got the HK or CZ, I'd be carrying them cocked and locked, not double action decocked.
Your concern regarding limp-wristing with the Glock is understandable, however no one can truthfully guarantee you that it cannot or will not happen.
Problems can occur with any of the guns mentioned but all are very reliable.
Your call. Good luck.
Problems can occur with any of the guns mentioned but all are very reliable.
Your call. Good luck.
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