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Best blackpowder substitute for a tradiational muzzleloader.

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by mcb, Nov 7, 2022.

  1. mcb

    mcb Member

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    So I have enough Goex FFg for another ~12 shots and then I will be completely out of black powder. More than enough to get me through the last weekend of muzzleloader season this year unless the Armdillos mount a revenge raid.

    My muzzleloader of choice is an old Thompson-Center Big-Boar 58-cal using traditional #11 caps for ignition. I am contemplating ordering some real black powder (Graf and Sons has Schuetzen 2F in stock) but most places have a fairly larger minimum (ie Grafs and Sons wants you to order at least four pounds and there is a huge hazmat fee). I could order some smokeless too pad that out but at the moment I am not in need of any smokeless. No where local carries black powder but most of the common substitutes are available.

    If you were going to step away from the real thing in a tradition percussion gun what substitute would you go to?
     
  2. LST-1185

    LST-1185 Member

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    #1 American Pioneer powder. 2# Pyrodex RS Select and my last choice would be Pyrodex RS.
     
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  3. CraigC

    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    I used Triple 7 in percussion rifles for several years before switching to Goex. I loved the fact that it burned cleaner, fouled less and gave me more time to clean. I did not like the occasional misfire, even with magnum #11's.
     
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  4. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I have used Pyrodex P in my 58 before I could get my hands on real black. It worked well and I never had a misfire with Remington No 11 caps. Had to clean it hard with soap and water soon afterwards.

    I don’t think I would want to try 777 with No 11s. As has been noted it will work but it he threat of a misfire is very real and not something I would want to roll the dice on.
     
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  5. CraigC

    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    It's aggravating when you pop a cap on a deer and it doesn't light the main charge.
     
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  6. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    If you try a sub and find ignition to be finicky, you can always change the nipple. I have a TC that won't ignite subs at all with a #11. Even with real black, it gets fussy after a half dozen shots. I picked up a musket cap nipple and it goes off without a hitch every time now, although I haven't been brave enough to try a sub.

    I like Black MZ/American Pioneer the best of the subs I have tried.
     
  7. mcb

    mcb Member

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    My brother runs a musket nipple on his White Mountain carbine. I will probably pick one up if I do switch to a substitute.
     
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  8. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    I was actually even able to find one that was stainless and TC branded. Then you just have to source some musket caps...
     
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  9. APG

    APG Member

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    I have not used any substitute black powders except for the Pyrodex RS and P. They work just fine in percussion cap guns. Many people say that it's dirtier than real black powder but your going to clean it any ways after you shot. The only guns that don't work with the Pyrodex are flintlocks.
     
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  10. Malachi Leviticus Blue

    Malachi Leviticus Blue Member

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    If you are willing to forego actual Black Powder and you want reliable ignition of subs, get an inline that uses 209 primers and has a closed breach.
    My advice would be to make the effort to source the real thing and order Real Black Powder online if nothing else.
     
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  11. Jimster

    Jimster Member

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    I shudder at the thought of not having any chance of obtaining real black powder.
     
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  12. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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    If that day comes, I will just make it. Not that hard.
     
  13. doubleh

    doubleh Member

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  14. Rebel Dave

    Rebel Dave Member

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    THeir is no good black powder substitute.

    Dave
     
  15. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Pyrodex is my choice when I can't get bp.
     
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  16. AntiqueSledMan

    AntiqueSledMan Member

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    When I started shooting Muzzle Loaders back in the 70's,
    one needed to drive 60 miles to get real Black Powder, which I did to begin with.
    Later on I switched to Triple 7, as it could be purchased locally.
    I've been happy with Triple 7, but in my Cartridge Conversion Revolvers I switched to Black MZ.
    Actually I purchased a case of the stuff from Sportsman's Warehouse when they were closing it out.
    It's about the same as APP, as it was made by them but now discontinued.

    As far as Rebel Dave's comment, I disagree.

    AntiqueSledMan.
     
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  17. hawg

    hawg Member

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    As do I. Yes I would rather shoot real black but sometimes that's not possible.
     
  18. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Have shot Pyrodex, T7,and blackmz. No problems with ignition in any of my cap guns....#11 caps mostly CCIs. Subs won't light reliably in a rocklock.
     
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  19. hawg

    hawg Member

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    Pyrodex slow fires in a paper cutter Sharps but it does fire.
     
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  20. Acorn Mush

    Acorn Mush Member

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    doubleh stated: Blackpowder is like hen's teeth in this area and has been for a long time. I just switched to pyrodex and have never had a problem with rifle or pistol. When my son bought a flintlock we tried it with pyrodex RS and used some 4f goex in the pan to ignite the pyrodex and had no trouble. I have no idea what he will do when that can of 4f is gone.

    doubleh, have you tried Coonie's over in Hobbs (east of Carlsbad)? I don't know how far it is from you but their phone number is (575)393-0166. I stopped in there many years ago. Nice folks and they have an interesting museum in the back. If not too far, give them a call and see if they can fix you up.
     
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  21. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Pyrodex, but I use 'P' for rifle as well as pistol. I weighed out charges thrown from a flask into various large pistol cases; .45 Colt, .44 Mag, and .50AE. One case full of any of the three is a nice, economical plinking load, two is a good hunting load. My go to hunting load is 2 .50AE case fulls of P, propelling a 385 gr. HBHP conical.
     
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  22. hawg

    hawg Member

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    I usually use RS in everything, pistols included. I can't tell the difference between P and RS.
     
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  23. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Got back into muzzleloaders in about 1998 and began using Pyrodex and Clean Shot. Clean Shot later became American Pioneer Powder. i've used all the APP manufactured powders. Currently have most of a case of Black MZ.

    Recently tried the latest APP powder called Shooters World Multipurpose Black 3F: 100 grain charges of Shooters World gives the same velocities as 100 grains of Black MZ. Fired 30 rounds of Shooters World without swabbing my .54 caliber Navy Arms Hawken, no hang fires, no problems.

    Shooters World Multi Purpose FFF Black Black Powder Substitute 1 Lb By Lovex by Shooters World Propellants (midsouthshooterssupply.com)

    IMO: Black powder is cruddy to the extreme and i detest the stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
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  24. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    The TC does have a very weird flash channel. I picked one up a while ago and put the musket nipple on it just to be "safe". It's been reliable for me, but I don't shoot it a lot, or many times in a row. I also clean the heck out of breech area/flash channel.

    It's a bit of an expense to buy BP in bulk, but you can mix-N-match grades, and once you have a large supply it will last a long time. You won't have to worry about getting more...maybe forever! Buffalo Arms is a good source, I recently went there in person and got a whole bunch of both Scheutzen and Swiss. It's going to last me...I think about forever. But their prices to ship are not bad, just have to get a minimum (large) amount...which again, is not a bad thing in the long run. Why just put a dollars worth of gas in you car when you stop for gas...just fill it up and you don't have to stop so often. (that was a lame analogy)

    I was planning to start learning to make my own this summer, but got too busy with other things. I do think that is the best way to go. You can make it for about one-dollar a pound.
     
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  25. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    marblkgrp.jpg
    80 grains black powder, 100 yards.
     
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