"Best for Bears" caliber poll

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Ranger30-06, Oct 6, 2011.

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What caliber are you most likely to take when heading into bear country

Poll closed Oct 21, 2011.
  1. .22 LR

    28 vote(s)
    8.4%
  2. .380 ACP

    2 vote(s)
    0.6%
  3. 9mm

    8 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. .40 S&W

    4 vote(s)
    1.2%
  5. .45 ACP

    17 vote(s)
    5.1%
  6. .357 Magnum

    39 vote(s)
    11.7%
  7. 10mm

    26 vote(s)
    7.8%
  8. .41 Magnum

    6 vote(s)
    1.8%
  9. .45 LC

    21 vote(s)
    6.3%
  10. .44 Magnum

    111 vote(s)
    33.3%
  11. .454 Casull

    35 vote(s)
    10.5%
  12. .460 S&W

    10 vote(s)
    3.0%
  13. .500 S&W

    26 vote(s)
    7.8%
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  1. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Yes, advancements. I'm sure folks thought the new Colt 1860 .44 was a huge advancement over the previous massive Walker and Dragoon models. Which it was. The big goofy X-frame is a step in the wrong direction. Lots of unnecessary stuff going on there. Too much bulk, too much pressure, too much velocity, etc. Sorry but a 4-5lb behemoth does not a proper beltgun make. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

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    Maybe for you, but 5 lbs is next to no burden for me, especially hanging off my side. To each his own!
     
  3. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Your gun collection is listed in your signature, how much experience do you have with big bore sixguns??? Spend 3/4 of your lifetime collecting them , shooting them, carrying them, modifying them, handloading for them, studying them, hunting with them and depending on them, then get back to me. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

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    Well I'm sorry I don't meet up to your expectations CraigC. I have however, been blessed with a dad and two grandfathers whom all have extensive gun collections. I don't need the internet or massive numbers of personal guns to know what I'm talking about, because I have family that is gracious enough to allow me use of their firearms when I want to. I have lived an outdoors life since I was a kid, and know what it's like to take guns into the woods.

    I find X frame handguns comfortable. There are no guns that fit every person to ever live. Now please stay on topic or do not post.
     
  5. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    I didn't vote, or read past page three...

    Bear encounters are few and far between in my area. To be honest, I don't think I own a handgun that would be effective for defense of a black bear (no worries about brown bears 'round here).

    If I were overly concerned about running into a bear, I would likely own a 10mm 1911, since I'm the most comfortable with that platform.
     
  6. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    We are on topic and you do not make the rules. I want to know what qualifies YOU to make the statements you have made.


    The question remains.
     
  7. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

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    Ok first of all, talking about advancements in handguns is NOT what this topic is about.

    What qualifies my statements? I have thousands upon thousands of rounds between quite a lot of different handguns. As for wheelguns, I've done .22 to .460 S&W and most of the options in between. I don't feel the need to prove myself to some internet character that for all I know has never handled a firearm in his life. I use this board to offer advice on issues that I am knowledgeable in and what I have experienced. I did not join to have someone else force his opinion on the world because he doesn't like another person's answer or he feels he is perfect in the subject.
     
  8. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Quite the contrary, it was you who questioned my statements. I merely explained why I have no use for X-frames. My statements which come from nearly a lifetime of experience with the guns in question. Yet you question me, imply that I am just a stick in the mud resistant to "advancements" and then say, "...if I had cash, I would buy one for myself". Which indicates to me that you are full of opinions but light on actual experience. I like to know when I'm getting uneducated opinion put forth as fact. I'm not questioning your character or spitting on your dog. I'm questioning what experience your statements are based on and that is fair game.


    YOU made "advancements" part of the discussion.


    Like I said...
     
  9. jerry12

    jerry12 Member

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    We have black bears around here and i wouldn't think any thing less than a 10mm or some thing bigger. I don't know if my Glock G21 could handle a bear so that is one reason i have been thinking about a 10mm but i heard that the Glock G20 45G.A.P. was a strong round.
     
  10. jerry12

    jerry12 Member

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    Mercy
     
  11. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Problem with the 10mm is bullet selection. Most the JHP's on the market are designed for self defense and that means rapid expansion. Even the 200gr bullets are dismal compared to a good 250gr .44 Keith bullet. Even the heavyweight Double Tap 230's are only equal to a 265gr .44 or a 180gr .357. At that point you're eating up a lot of powder capacity. The G20's lofty capacity is no small consolation if the first shot won't do the job because the cartridge is marginal.
     
  12. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

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    Very true there. In order to get even near the best potential of the 10mm you have to reload. And yea, lack of good bullet selection doesn't help at all...
     
  13. Chief RID

    Chief RID Member

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    44 mag is the most powerful pistol caliber I own. If I was comfortable with a more powerful caliber and I had access to it I would use it. I still do not know if that would make me comfortable in big bear county. I have never been there. Nervous black bear Mom's make me nervous enough. I have been there.
     
  14. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    What?

    If your point is that the 10mm isn't a .44 Magnum, or even a .41 Magnum, granted. But lack of good bullet selection? Everything from 125gr copper HPs to 230gr HC--but that's not good?

    As to potential: if you're handloading 10 hotter with 220 or 230 bullets than Buffalo Bore and and Double Tap, then my hat's off...and I hope you're using a revolver.

    Buffalo Bore says they're getting over 36 inches of penetration with their heavy load. Lack of good bullet selection, indeed.
     
  15. usmccpl

    usmccpl Member

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    Of all listed I chose 44. But I would use it in a rifle and back it up with a 454 or 44 revolver.
     
  16. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Uh, yeah! For anything other than self defense, it is dismal. Which makes sense because the .40S&W is vastly more popular than the 10mm. For deer, there is the 200gr XTP. I'm not so sure the 180gr Gold Dot is suitable for such purposes. I certainly wouldn't use either on anything larger. There is a 200gr LBT from Beartooth which, like I said, is comparable to 250-260gr .44's and .45's. Then there is the 230gr which is only available from Double Tap. Which is good but pales in comparison to a good 300gr, 320gr, 330gr or 360gr .44 or .45. Which are FAR more varied and prolific.
     
  17. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    So, a bullet selection that tops out a 1.84 times the lowest bullet weight available, from a semi-auto is dismal? Which semi-auto has a greater range, please?

    Oh, and how much more penetration than 3 ft would take it out of the dismal range? Would, say, the 47-inch penetration of a .475 Linebaugh still be dismal, or up to "poor"?

    :p
     
  18. mortablunt

    mortablunt Member

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    I don't always pistol shoot bears, but when I do, I make it a 454 Casull.
     
  19. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Once again, you are fabricating an argument. Yes, I'll repeat myself one more time. Bullet selection for the 10mm, for anything other than self defense, is dismal. DISMAL! You have the two 180's from Speer and Hornady, which are perhaps even marginal for deer. Then you have the 200gr XTP, which is probably best for deer. Then there is the 200gr Beartooth and the 230gr Double Tap. That's two good bullets. TWO!!! I don't know what planet you're from, but here on earth TWO is not very much.


    NOBODY said the performance of those loads was "dismal". Once again, you're putting words in my mouth. I believe marginal was the word I used because, once again, they are comparable to mid-range .44 or .45 loads. I wouldn't recommend a 250gr Keith at 1200fps any more than I would the 230gr Double Tap 10mm load. For general purpose use and deer or hogs, yes. Not for brown bears. On my planet, "perhaps, maybe good enough" ain't good enough for me. :rolleyes:
     
  20. AK_Maine_iac

    AK_Maine_iac Member

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    I voted 454 because that is what i have. When out in the bush it is loaded with 454 and when in the city it is loaded with 45Colt.
    In a pinch a 22lr will work if you can hit the knee cap of the person your with. So you can out run you ex- hunting buddy.:evil:
     
  21. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

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    Well, from my point of view, it's you who are fabricating. The 10mm has a great bullet selection, including, as you seem to say, bullets that should have excellent performance on smaller bear.

    Yet you choose to subcategorize with an arbitrary bar: why didn't you just say: "bullet selection above 250 gr for 10mm is dismal"? Makes about as much sense as the qualification you did make.

    The 10mm is not a revolver cartridge, or a cartridge designed for large animal defense. The fact that it can be stretched into an excellent performer there shows its versatility. Your comment is kinda like looking at a decathlete and saying, "Yeah, but he's not a 9.65 sprinter."

    By the way, your original point was:
    No qualifier. I didn't respond to it, but responded to another's post:
    That's who and what I responded to. You, unaddressed, jumped in, then qualified what you said, and added "dismal"--even though it's performace is apparently "excellent."

    And you have decided that what all that means is I'm from another planet. Well, apparently some are here specifically looking for opportunity to insult others, and I'm not the only one you've gone after in this thread. Not very high road.
     
  22. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    Two bullets is what you call "great selection"??? Then bullet selection for the .44Mag and .45Colt should be simply mind boggling!!! :confused:

    This ain't a 10mm thread. It ain't a self defense thread. Nor is it a deer hunting thread. This thread is about bears and the 10mm was mentioned. There are two decent bullets that have any chance of being effective within those parameters. Period.


    Indeed. I have attacked no one's character here but apparently I gored your sacred goat by simply stating facts regarding the 10mm.

    PS, I am no stranger to the caliber. For I've done quite a bit of testing with the original 10mm, the .38-40 and am heading to the deer woods with it shortly. To do what? To test the 180gr Gold Dot, 200gr XTP and 200gr Beartooth on critters.
     
  23. murf

    murf Member

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    enough, guys. take your weewee contest somewhere else, please.

    murf
     
  24. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Wow this thread has degenerated. I'm out of this one. There is to much hostility, and opinions being portrayed as facts in here for my taste.

    Ranger30-06, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you on the X frame issue. I own a 460 magnum, I love the X frame, I carry one comfortably on my hip (But I am a big dude.), I think it is as far as we reasonably need to go with with power levels in a handgun (If we can't get it done with what we have, then we should have bought a damn shotgun or rifle.), and I definately think X frames were a step in the right direction as far as increasing versatility of revolver loads. This is just my opinion, and before anyone jumps down my throat, let me just say I will not respond for the above stated reason.

    I want to see a ".500 Super H#&y [email protected]%t!!!!! Mag" developed!!! LOL Hey I think I just broke my wrist........
     
  25. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

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    He's right guys. Read the first post. Play nice or leave.

    LOL! I think I would pass on that one... :what:
     
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