Best Handgun/Caliber for FL Alligator Defense ?

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Florida is going to have open season on them I bet. There are too many people invading the gators territory and some are going to pay the price.

At the risk of sounding like a tree hugger, people are encroaching on their habitat and the GATORS have to go???? Well, whatever, I guess so.

I think it's much paranoia about nothing, though. I have swam around here in lakes where gators reside, rivers, fish all over the place. I've played chase the fishing cork with 'em. :D They ain't comin' up out of the water like a crock, don't happen. The attacks I know about were swimmers, so stay away from wild areas where there are gators for your swimming holes. They ain't gonna come a huntin' you at the campground swimming area. Heck, the local reservoir, lake Texana if any from Texas knows it, is full of gators and there's skiers, jet skis, swimmers out there all the time. Stay out in the open water or in the campground swimming area and you're fine. There are some places I don't swim over there. We had our pontoon/house boat docked at the marina over there for three summers and I'd sit out on the dock and watch the gators. One idiot hand fed one Cheetos all the time, despite warnings not to. That one coulda become a problem gator. He was about 3 feet at the time. But, as much activity as there is on that lake and as many gators as are in that lake, there's never been an incident with 'em there. I ran jug lines out in the lake when I'd go stay on the boat down there, take my little boat to do that. I was always in or on the water there. I fish all the time. I've never had a problem. I've almost stepped on snakes more'n once. I always look where I'm walkin, though. Saved a buddy from a cottonmouth once, too. He hasn't let me forget it. LOL He almost stepped right in the middle of that thing. We were duck hunting early in the season. I shot the snake's head off and we checked out the fangs, like little hypo needles. Wouldn't wanna get hit with that thing. I've had run ins with rattlers down here, too, lots of 'em. I worry a lot more about getting snake bit than alligator bit. I know people that have been snake bit, not a fun experience. I worry more about stepping on a sting ray or bumping into a man-o-war (that's not a fun experience, trust me!) than getting alligator bit.

Use your head, don't swim in wild areas where there are gators. But, you don't have to stay 50 feet away from all shorelines to be safe. You have much more chance of being struck by lightening than getting alligator bit, more chance of getting into it with a bear, more chance of getting in a wreck on the way to your fishing hole, more chance of getting in a plane crash, more chance of slipping in the shower and killing yourself, etc, etc, etc. Tens of thousands of people fish these waters around here every day. I'm going tomorrow night, drum run has started. I know of ONE alligator attack in 20 or so years.:rolleyes: Don't provoke 'em, don't be stupid, avoid getting close to 'em, but there's no need to be totally paranoid, either.
 
BTW, a common way they're hunted down here is to set a BIG hook on a drop line with a chunk of chicken or something big on it, like drop line fishing for catfish. When the gator hooks himself, you dispatch him with a suitable revolver/handgun. I've known five or six guys that have taken gators. They all used .357 mag revolvers. The weren't gun types, though, just hunters. I think that's probably just what they had. Ain't like they were getting attacked, just had to put the thing out of it's misery.

Alligator hunting is done by draw permit in Texas. I've never tried to get a tag, really have no desire to shoot a gator. Ain't like you're stalkin' it or anything. It's more like fishing, to me, than hunting.
 
I would just add that we have to be mindful of the encroachment issues. Alligators made a very dramatic comeback after being protected. We are spreading out and into their hangouts while their numbers are surging and they are running out of room. My point is that it is not just wild areas we need to be wary of any more. Most of the places I see them are not what I'd call wild. I see them all the time and I am there because someone is paying us to be there to make that lake or pond behind their house look pretty.
 
There's probably more of 'em in settled areas in Florida than anywhere else do to the overpopulation of humans there. What I meant by "wild", though, is like at the lake here. Swim around the Marina, not out at the island off the shoreline. Gators are always around that island. They have a nice marked off swimming area at the campground there and everything is mowed around it.

There aren't any gators in town, here, but a couple miles down the shoreline and you're apt to see one. Head of the bay there's a big marsh where there are gators. It's about 4 miles as the boat flies from my house. It's a big ranch there, not much population. I fish there all the time. In late summer the redfish are spawning up in there and it's shallow. You can see packs of fins cutting the water, almost like hunting 'em. It's too neat to NOT go there to fish just cause there's a few gators. I've never heard of a problem with a gator out there, either.

I just think, like the shark scare last year, people get all crazy over a few attacks. Couple of weeks ago there was a bear attack in Tennessee. All of a sudden there's posts on "best handgun for bear", like that one hasn't been discussed to death. :rolleyes: :D I'm not going to quit fishing cause there's gators all around me and some jogger in Florida got ate, all I'm sayin'.
 
Gator attacks happen but are fairly rare. I think I heard that there have been 374 in FL since 1970? But that figure might include people who were scared by the sudden appearance of a gator since only like 16 attacks were fatal.

I still think a handgun would not be too useful. Either you jump back out the gator's reach or you don't.

rcbair- I go armed when I think it will help. I doubt that any pistol carried concealed would be a real value if a gator grabs you.
 
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SaxonPig, I heard a far lower number, and over a greater number of years. It was, I believe, 17 fatal gator attacks in Florida since 1948. Then there were another 9 cases not officially listed as attacks because they could not determine if the person died by gator attack or beforehand and then the gator just found the body. I have seen an article that claims there have been 25 fatal attacks in FL since 1948, and I believe they just lumped in the unofficial stuff with the confirmed ones (prior to the first of the three recent incidents).

EDIT: Found a website that lists the attacks in FL at 351 from 1948-2005. Only 16 were fatal, and it is vague (were these attacks on people, their dogs, etc.). What opens your eyes is that out of 391 recorded nationally, 351 were in Florida. :what: I am a little suspicious of the data because I believe the success rate for the gators would be higher. Again, perhaps these are not all bona fide attacks (did it simply put on a threat display, was it unprovoked, did it really attempt to stalk/bite?), and perhaps many were not on people. The same site lists a much higher number of shark attacks for the same period, which I seriously doubt!
 
LOL! Yeah, not many gators up there, huh? If you can believe the data I've seen, all of the listed attacks come from just 6 states. AL, FL, GA, SC, LA, and TX.
 
Well, what Alaska lacks in reptilians, it more'n makes up for in man eating mammals. :what: :D

SaxonPig, I heard a far lower number, and over a greater number of years. It was, I believe, 17 fatal gator attacks in Florida since 1948.

That's the quote I heard, too. I didn't hear the non-fatal "attack" number. But, as you point out, what exactly do they consider an "attack"?

Oh, well, I've always got a gun on me. Livin' with critters is just part of the fun of life for me. I like seein' a big gator in the wild. They're cool beasts, just don't mess with 'em.:D Something primordial about 'em, like steppin' back 70 million years and meeting a T. Rex.

Ah, now, what handgun would be appropriate for a T. Rex? Ah, never mind...:rolleyes: :D
 
That's why I said "I think" because I wasn't sure of those numbers. They were what I thought I heard but I could have heard wrong or not rememebred right.

I did not know there were gators in TX!!! I was surprised to learn there were some in AR and I never considered TX as gator country.
 
Texas is a big state. We got everything from mountains to desert to grasslands to coastal marshes. We got lotsa gators around my neck of the woods. There's a good harvest here every season, someone gets in the paper with a big 'un every year. We're fairly lightly populated around here and there's lots of wild wetlands from around here and south. But, most gator infested Texas swamp I've seen is up around Port Author, JD Murphrey WMA. Man, the place has 'em stacked up waitin' on a human to fall out of an airboat. :D

One thing we don't have a lot of is black bear. They were shot out of this area about the turn of the century. Up in the east Texas piney woods they've been trying to re-establish 'em. Out west, the Big Bend Chisos mountains and up in the Guadelupes, they have good populations. Only other man eating critters we have around here are a VERY few cougar, more out west, but they've been seen around here. We have lotsa hogs, but they're not exactly stalkers of humans, just have a nasty reputation about not wanting to be shot.:D This was one of the last areas of the Red Wolf in north America, now thought to be extinct. I had the very high honor of actually seeing one back in '80 crossing a road on the way to a boat ramp on the San Bernard National Wildlife Refuge. Back when I was a kid, they used cyanide traps to kill 'em. But, the coyotes moved in and did what cyanide couldn't do by cross breeding them out of existence. It's a shame they're gone, but I reckon it's nature's way in their case. The coyote is the more successful animal in the presence of humans.

Of course, the waters around here starting in June are infested with shark, mostly black tip and lemon sharks, but out in the gulf there's plenty of big bulls and an occasional tiger. I was fishing off Matagorda Island one day in the Pass Cavallo area catching hammerheads and black tips. I'd caught one black tip that went a little over four feet, pretty good sized one. I tranquilized it with my .38 before bringing it in the boat. So, the kid is with me, wants to run up to Sunday beach. We pull up there, the water is crystal clear and there's a guy there with several boys swimming. He says, "You catchin' anything?" I says, "Yeah, caught this right over there, water's infested with 'em. Got a whole cooler full." Was a five shark limit at the time. I held up the big black tip and I thought the guy was goin' to have a heart attack gettin' his kids out of the water. :D :D :D :D :D
 
What handgun for fire ants?
This one:
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2.7mm Kolibri
 
A couple of random thoughts:

First, gators may very well be a federally protected species, but I have always considered myself to be a personally protected species, ranking higher on the food chain than gators. So, if it comes down to gator or me, I am looking out for me.

Second, in a gator attack, I would much rather be remembered struggling to pull and fire my concealed carry firearm in self defense than I would to be remembered doing no more than kissing my a.. goodbye.

Boarhunter
 
One thing I have not encountered in my reading on the subject is that any of the places that have these critters feel they have too few.

There was a show on the History Channel or PBS about a town in FL that had protected all gators but changed their policy after a couple of fatal attacks. Big units were identified as the perps in both cases. In that area gators over a certain size [length] are now removed automatically by pros.

That seemed like a logical compromise that balanced the safety of the community with the needs of a wildlife resource. I'm sure the plan got a big thumbs up from all the cats, ducks and Yorkies in the area.

S-
 
I'm an FL native, born on the outskirts of the Everglades and I've spent quite a lot of time living back up in the swamp. Aligators are relatively inoffensive even if they are a top predator. I grew up fishing next to them every day as a todler, I respected their distance and I kept off the shoreline. It would be highly irregular for an aligator to attack except if he was in the water lunging towards you on the land, or if you are between him and his avenue of escape. They get 80% of their energy requirements from the sun and most of their diet is turtles and bugs. These are predators, but they don't have mammalian physiology so they don't eat near as much as mammals. An aligator can go a year on a good sized meal if it has to and it can't even digest anything when its cold out because its stomach acid starts to solidify.

A .22 or .22mag will do the trick with shot placement, but the trouble with these guys, again, is that they're reptiles not mammals... they don't always realize they're dead. I've seen them be legal killed, spine severed at the base of the head, still for an hour or two and then come back to life. It's probably just muscle spasms, not that it matters. The attack is 99% avoidable without even placing any demands on you.

That said, I sure am sick of the urbanization down here. I'm not even that old and FL doesn't look anything like it used to, there's very few places you can go to get away from things these days. The East coast is pretty much one big city from Key West on up to the state line. Drought, pollution, invasive species, destruction of wild lands, all the results of overpopulation.
 
they don't always realize they're dead. I've seen them be legal killed, spine severed at the base of the head, still for an hour or two and then come back to life. It's probably just muscle spasms, not that it matters.

Sort of like frying frog legs. They hop around in the pan. :D

You get sick of the urban blight there, move west, young man. Lotsa room in the swamps and marshes from Louisiana around to Brownsville. Just kinda gotta skip over Houston. :D Florida would be a fantastic place weren't for all the danged people. I'm with you.;)

I've only been to Florida four times. Twice was racing my motorcycle at the speedway in Daytona in '80 and '81, no time to sight see. Went there as a spectator in '99 and got my first look at the Ocala or whatever it is forest. Wife and I flew in to West Palm Beach and took a boat to Freeport, Bahamas, but all I saw of Florida was from the air that time. Talk about your hurricane bait! Man, there's some expensive homes in the storm surge zone down there! I hope they're insured, cause being a tax payer, I don't wanna have to rebuild 'em on MY dime! Ridiculous. We flew over Okeechobee, too, first time I saw that. But, there ain't a whole lot that don't have something built by man on it, especially the closer you get to the water.
 
actually the recent upswing in attacks down here (all whopping 3 or 4) has been largely due to the drought and the lower water lines.
 
Copy that on the drought. My place has a half acre pond on it, or used to, it's half the size or less than it normally is, I'm praying for rain. When the water holes dry up ol' el lagarto will will pull anchor and go in search of somewhere with enough water and food to keep him. We only recently got the warm weather back, so also bear in mind these guys haven't been able to eat anything since maybe September on account of the cold's effect on their digestion. There's a number of convergent factors that would bring people in contact with them a little more than usual right now, considering there's a gator in every ditch and every retention pond anywhere here in FL, it's pretty good assurance that the prehistoric beasts aren't really a problem or there'd be a lot more attacks. I'd be willing to bet the coral snake and brown recluse have been as lethal so far this year, though I have no data on that.

Honestly it just wouldn't be Florida without the aligators, even in the city. The fact that they're big dangerous lizards you have to respect is all the more reason to keep'em, they teach us an important lesson about watching where you step and minding your business rather than blundering your way through life with no regard for your neighbors. They're just a part of the Floridian way of living and it unfortunately seems a lot of outsiders/newcomers just don't get it... sort of like that "conservation" group that wants the manateee taken off the endangered species list so they don't have to slow their Cape Hatteras down. The swamp whales are part of the charm, let'em be. If you weren't so busy trying to drive your boat like you drive your car and stopped a moment to take a look you'd see they're actually pretty cool and exactly the kind of thing you want to have around... most especially when you consider that the one and only thing keeping those rivers and cannals free from water hiacynth enough to actually be navigable is those manatees.

It's a real shame whenever somebody, especially a young lady, gets eaten by an aligator. It's also a shame when somebody's released/escaped pet python eats a baby out of it's crib... yes, that happened some years back. My heart really goes out to all those who are effected by such a tragedy, but the answer isn't turning the whole world into some kind of rated-G non-toxic padded rubber Disney World. If you're going to live somewhere be darned sure you know the ins and outs. You can die of heat stroke gardening or working on your lawn down here just because you decided to have some beer instead of water to replace all those fluids you've been sweating out. Never mind other hazards, like lightning.

Hurricanes are a perrenial phenomenon, and again a threat Floridians know how to cope with. Even with all the new arrivals the state has you'll never read about FL going the way of NOLA. Once in a while somebody will get it in their head that it's a good idea to take advantage of the situation by trying to rob people or get some looting in. You always read about these guys the next day, along with a general description of the sort of firearm that laid them low. FWIW, I've noticed it's mostly the island immigrants who try to pull that one, it must be normal in their countries, from the looks of Haiti that certainly appears to be the case. We had a whole carfull pull up into my buddy's place the year before last. They turned around real quick and found somewhere else to be when we walked up to the door with AK and shotgun in hand.

In regards to storm surge zones in Palm Beach County, it isn't as bad as you would think. The continental shelf comes really close to shore out there so there isn't as much chance for the water to stack up. Out here on Tampa Bay it's a whole nother story, we frequently get flooding and just the opposite, Charlie sucked a lot of water out of the Bay for a couple days. How you prepare for the storm has a lot to do with it, too. My dad has a 30 year old trailer on a canal and a storm, cat 2 I believe, came right over his roof. He had all the hatches battened down and double up on his tiedowns and he didn't even lose his screened porch.

I've definately been giving some thought to moving on to greener pastures. I've been living in an apartment downtown for a while and I'm just sick as anything of all the concrete and steel. There's nowhere on my whole island I can go to stretch my legs. My new place is out in the woods on a couple acres and in my estimation offers twice the luxory at a much lower cost.
 
Honestly it just wouldn't be Florida without the aligators, even in the city. The fact that they're big dangerous lizards you have to respect is all the more reason to keep'em, they teach us an important lesson about watching where you step and minding your business rather than blundering your way through life with no regard for your neighbors.

Amen! The gators, after all, were there a whole heck of a long time before men of any color encroached on their territory. Statements of killing 'em off because more people are coming in just make me wonder and sigh. When is man going to learn he is PART of nature, not its master???:banghead:
 
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