Best Quality AR Under $2000

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After doing some research, I really am starting to feel like the LMT MRP CQB Gas piston Ar-style rifle would be a really wonderful addition to my collection. It seems to be both modern (using long researched gas piston system), intelligently tacticoolish (has monotholic one piece rail system built into the receiver) and uses high quality, mostly mil-spec parts. It seems to be the best of all worlds. I have been reading nothing but compliments on this gun, yet to hear any criticism. A reviewer just did a very thorough analysis comparing his HK416 to his LMT MRP Piston and he seem to really prefer the LMT MRP Piston over the HK416.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26421

The design of the gun is closer to that of an AR than any other gas piston gun, but has the proper components engineered so that the gun is modular as well as does not have the same problems of fouling and residue buildup that the DI guns have. I am really liking this gun from what I read.


This has struck a great deal of interest in me.. I almost think if I can find this gun for $1800, I will take it. It seems to retail for more. Not sure where I can get it. I am also considering the LMT MRP CQB DI gun which is suppose to in the future have an ability to upgrade the gun to the gas piston system for not too much more money.
 
If you like the LMT MRP you can get a complete upper for $1449 new. Pretty close to the average price of most GP AR uppers. Its was one of the options I checked out closely when getting a GP upper myself.
 
Evergreen, as far as comparing AR rifles to car manufacturers goes. I dont think anyone can truthfully compare any reputable AR made by any major manufacturer (except Vulcan junk) to any comparison to auto manufacturers. I worked on cars for years, and as a result today own 2 Hondas. Comparing any major brand AR to a car manufacturer would not be accurate because all major brand ARs would be above subaru, above toyota, and debateable whether they are the same, above, or below Nissan and Honda. I wouldnt compare any AR to any American car manufacturer, unfortunately being a long time American car owner beforehand and my experience working on cars has taught me to avoid American cars.
There are no people here or anywhere that can tell you truthfully that carbine courses, normal use, LEO use, or even military combat use will damage, wear out, destroy, or even show a difference in any commercially available AR aside from Vulcan. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out of their backside. There are people who say that brand A, or brand B do not make it through carbine courses simply because they know that most people here have never been to one, and doesnt know that the person making the comment has never been to one themselves.
Then theres the claim that they heard that brand a or brand b commonly breaks in carbine courses, its just like the other course claims, talking out the backside again.
Americans are very good at making semiauto gas operated rifles such as the AR. I wish the auto indstry would take notes here.
 
Consider mixing and matching

I have a CMMG lower and a Rock River upper. They go together like peas and carrots, and I save a couple hundred dollars buying that way. ($800 with carrying handle but no magazines, last week).

I've also "built ARs." To me, the only reason to build an AR is fun. It's not worth doing it so save money.:rolleyes:
 
Have a look at
http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/69016/index.html
before you buy...
Interesting stuff by a good guy who knows his AR's.

he probably is just a fantastic person, but i have seen him resort to childish name calling when conversations are not allowed to be slightly twisted to fit the message he wishes to deliver, but then again, so do my little nephews and nieces, and i love them all dearly.

at least one column of the ar15 qualities chart is not accurate where my rifles are concerned. this is not just my opinion. this is the opinion of almost 70 people that inspected the item in question, in which over 95% agreed.

edit: i also agree with shvar. every word actually
 
Looks like a nice gun.. However, I have heard that S&W M&P cuts a lot of corner using inferior grade parts to Colt.. Also, I was hoping to have a barrel constructed with a 1:7 twist versus 1:9. I am sure the S&W M&P is a nice gun and for the price it looks like a great deal.. And, as one person wrote, you cannot compare ARs like comparing cars, as we will probably not abuse any of our guns enough to truly push them to their potential. However, I still like to get a highest quality AR I can, just so I know I have one, if nothing else.

It does seem like some of the exterior components on the S&W M&P are good quality. I was disappointed to see the COlt 6940 uses low grade filp up sights and a lower quality quad rail on such an expensive gun.
 
Talon Arms has an LMT Defender for $1199, and a lot of places have Colt 6920's for $1199. To me those are 2 mil spec guns at tough to beat prices. Actually, if you don't want the LMT, I may jump on that.
 
i had a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 I may have bought a "lemon" it got sent back to smith and wesson sent back to me rebarreled still was finky as all heck i wouldn't buy another M&P 15 - BUSHMASTER are proven BUT like i said earliar though THE XCR RIFLE to quote Bulrat "very nice"
 
A co-worker who is a long time AR enthusiast dislikes colt rifles period, he loves his DPMS, Bushmasters, RRA, and a few others. He has had a few colts, all had various quality problems, unexpected breakage, and he never thought that they seemed very accurate, nor was the finish very good quality, worse he didnt like the sloppiness between the upper and low common in colts compared to other brands.
I have had good experience with colt M-16A2s (the originals), and a few colt ARs Ive used, I didnt quite like the finish on the ARs, something about it didnt look right, Im sure very durable though.
The M-16A2s I used later made by FN seemed to have a different finish, and were tighter between the upper and lower.
After getting a bushy upper Id buy from them again, if I were buying another rifle. My DPMS impressed me from the beginning, but the 1 inch heavy barrel it has limits how much I like shooting it in comparison.
S&W finish looks good, and has the defining white letters that stand out, Im sure they are good rifles, the 5.45X39 option is nice also.
In reality very minute details separate all brands in any model regardless of anyone claims, this has to do with the individual manufacturers combination of various features they prefer.
Colt makes some of their rifles to milspecs, which are purely a minimum standard for military contract purchase only, not by any means better, more durable, more accurate, or more balanced.
Ive never known a single person to ever wear out a commercially available AR of any major manufacturer, or to have failures that are related to having non-milspec features over any milspec featured rifle. In fact there are far too many owners here (and that I know in person) that have had and fired Bushy, DPMS, RRA, S&W, etc far more than any owners of colts, etc from what Ive read, and are more satisfied with their choices. Also consider that some colt pins are not milspec size, nor can they be used in other non-colt lowers.
Colt sometimes uses whats called a C-bolt carrier which has a section cut from the rear of the bolt carrier to allow it to work unimpeded in their lowers that may have the block to make changing any internal parts in the lower very difficult. These features in colt civilian models make them NON-milspec by definition, just as other brands are.
Look for yourself, pick them up, and see what you like, not what someone else thinks is better because of its name brand.
 
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co-worker who is a long time AR enthusiast dislikes colt rifles period, he loves his DPMS, Bushmasters, RRA, and a few others. He has had a few colts, all had various quality problems, unexpected breakage, and he never thought that they seemed very accurate, nor was the finish very good quality, worse he didnt like the sloppiness between the upper and low common in colts compared to other brands.

pretty much the same for me except ive only had one colt. i will not buy another one, but thats not to say they are all bad, just mine was.

i do believe like shvar mentioned, that the term mil-spec can be misleading.

this is a milspec bed.

lgarmy-bed.gif

this does not mean its the best bed you can get
 
Seems like we have a few guys here who don't drink the Colt Kool-Aid. That is good, I admired an objective view on the subject.

As far as that bed, that looks like the best bed you can get, probably will prevent all the back problems some of these flimsy $5000 beds you get at your luxury furniture stores :neener:


Well, the Colt people here seem to get nauseated if you use the "D" or "B" word here, that is "DPMS" or "Bushmaster". They believe due to the lack of mil-spec part compliance that DPMS and Bushy fail to achieve, that they are the worst forms of garbage. I dunno, I Have heard horror stories and glory stories of each. I do own a DPMS LR-308 and really have not heard any complaints about the DPMS .308 models, actually mostly praises. Not sure about the 5.56..

I am really struggling.. I am also starting to consider forking out the big bucks and get something fancy that I wont have to upgrade later, like a XCR, LWRC , POF or an LMT MRP. Daniel Defense M4 has also caught my eye.. Ugly as it maybe, I do hear its perhaps the best of all tactical setups available. And the price of DD is affordable, considering the high quality parts it is constructed with and the high quality furniture its supplied with.

THe LMT MRP is very nice looking gun and I have heard that LMT's are the top of the line in construction. I dunno if what I hear about S&W M&P15's being the most accurate, due to their Thompson barrel is true or not? Anyone have any feelings on this?

I am really struggling on which rifle I should get :banghead:
 
read their posts carefully, evergreen.

the people who "aren't drinking the colt kool-aid" are evaluating based mostly on "finish" and things like "sloppiness between the upper and lower"

if you're going to judge your rifle by how the white letters on the receiver stand out, i'd also advise against the colt.

(edit: and i'm not saying that's a bad thing... different people want different things from their guns. if you're a collector, that's probably a lot more important to you)
 
actually, mine did have some running issues to go along with being generally poorly fitted

but hear me out. i honestly think it was a fluke thing.

i completely believe that colt makes outstanding ar15's. and i also believe that the imfamous chart does indeed do them justice.

but i also believe that the same chart has a somewhat one sided view on some of the brands that cost less. one part that really sticks out, to me at least, is the column in the chart about "gas key properly staked". the chart says it is not, but on my rifles at least, this is not the case. i know that is easy for me to claim, so i did a poll.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=446662

as you can see, the results suggest otherwise.

this, at least in my mind, does not favor the credibility of the chart. how many other columns, and graded features might be incorrect?

im not suggesting that you buy a bushmaster, and im not saying that others are not better.

i honestly believe that for your intended purposes, just about any of them will make you happy.

also, as far as which one is the most accurate, for the most part, that is going to be decided by which barrel profile you select, not by which brand you select.

for some insight on the accuracy traits of the different barrel profiles, you might want to check out the ar15 match link in my sig.

the current leader at 200 yards has 5 shots in .75". thats five rounds covered by a quarter AT 200 YARDS!!!!! lol, impressive huh?
 
Also, I was hoping to have a barrel constructed with a 1:7 twist versus 1:9.

Just be sure you'll get a benefit from 1:7. That twist is needed for M856 tracer in cold weather and also for 77gr SMK. It's also good for 75gr Hornady though many people get the Hornady to work in a 1:9 twist. For 55-62gr bullets the 1:9 will generally be better, will wear longer and may even provide slightly higher velocity. I think the twist rate is another area where we are all conditioned to think that the mil-spec 1:7 twist rate is better, but unless using military M856 tracer, or the 77gr SMK (or heavier), it probably isn't.
 
A note about milspecs in AR/M16 rifles, any manufacturer that makes a milspec rifle for governement contract will make it with every milspec feature with the same exact materials, etc. So therefore what is left to compare when choosing a brand fit, finish, feel, and durability in the actual individual rifle.
Instead of commenting on parts of someone elses comments, again Ill say, choose for what you want, not by brand snobs choices.
Actually in reality how many AR rifles made by all manufacturers have the M16/FA bolt carrier? Think about this, for the average shooters use, what purpose does that serve? One of mine has the FA/M16 carrier, guess what, its a Bushmaster, its a gas piston M4, it has no need for staking of the gas key, it has no gas key.
The chart shows individual differences in civilian M4 models by manufacturer choice, not because these differences are better, worse, more durable, or more accurate. It shows purely from the standpoint of a small group of individual M4 rifles which models fit closest to a list of mostly colt features. The chart also shows a listing of features, some of which are milspecs, not all.
 
Kentucky said:
Interesting. I am not familiar with those, will have to do some reading.

What is it that they do so well that they rank hands down above a Noveske for example?

The Knight's SR15E3 use a different bolt, barrel extension, midlength gas and a number of other modifications that greatly improve lifespan and reliability (not to mention an impressive cold-hammer forged barrel). The Noveske is a great rifle that will run like a clock; but there are certain inherent limitations in using parts that were originally designed for a 20" rifle in a shorter carbine.

SHvar said:
Ive never known a single person to ever wear out a commercially available AR of any major manufacturer, or to have failures that are related to having non-milspec features over any milspec featured rifle.

I'd say that says more about your typical shooting habits than it does about ARs. If you shoot ARs in 3-gun/carbine courses/training, you are going to see failures (and across every brand, including Colts). Broken bolts, broken bolt catches, parts falling off, missing locknuts, broken castle nut plates, sheared gas keys, loose gas keys, etc. I've seen at least one example of each of those and just in the last 8 years of shooting recreationally.

I think Texas Rifleman has a good comment on the subject that 99% of ARs are perfectly fine for 99% of the shooters out there and if you are in that 1% you know who are and don't need to ask. SHvar's comments fit well for that 99%.

An AR is a machine, and all machines wear with use. Some will wear faster than others because they cut corners on parts. Some will wear faster than others because they just plain get used harder. Everybody has to decide for themselves what level of maintenance they are willing to do and what acceptable rate of failure they are willing to pay for. A good thread for evaluating that can be found here.
 
Unfortunately it does not matter what brand you pick, all companies ARs will have the same problems regardless of milspec features or not.
In fact Bart from your own opinions, all brands have the same failures, yet Ive talked to several carbine course instructers after reading these fictional comments on this forum about ARs failing so much except certain brands.
You see, being in law enforcement I get more exposure to these things in person than the typical JoShmo that comments and claims about things that they dont understand.
I also work with special team members who take these courses every year as required training, and fire their AR type rifles far more than any typical civilian ever will.
Why is it that on internet forums among colt fans theres always claims about non colt/LMT/etc brands failing when in reality it has rarely ever happened period?
Why is it that I know of more failed milspec ARs and colts than any other brand, some of these units used colts at one time, then bought other brands since for reliability reasons.
In fact I know one within a few miles of my house that had colts for years, then bought Bushmasters to replace them, they have had better luck with the Bushys.
You see I dont fall for those carbine course claims of so called "lesser brands" (in the eyes of colt fans) failing or not being able to complete carbine courses, or tactical training. Around this forum the carbine course myth has gotten old and needs to stop.
Ive fired my ARs in the last year alone more than most here have fired theres in many years, but there are many more who have thousands more rds than myself through there non colt ARs.
I know too many long time AR owners and have far too much experience with these rifles to fall for the fictional claims by many who post here.
 
Good post Shvar.. Very sobering.. Well, I met a law enforcement trainer who said that Colt 6920's were the only gun through all his testing that were functional after server torture testing and that all the lower grade ARs would fall to pieces or malfunction when compared to Colt. Yeah, he was a die hard Colt fan. He showed me his humble Colt 6920 with no rail, just a light attached to the fixed iron sight. Nothing that you would brag about at the range, except its a Colt.

Your opinion is one I have heard from othres, and being in LE, I think you are a credible source, especially if you have put various rifles through torture tests. I guess I just don't get why some people say Colts are the Almighty rifle whereas others say that their little cheap DPMS 5.56 can outperform the superior mil-spec Colt.

I know there is other factors, like proper fitting parts, tighter tolerances, etc that I am not aware of.


On a final note, I have decided tomorrow to purchase an LMT MRP AR DI rifle. I am finding one for little less than $1700 Shipped. Iknow itsa big price to pay but I have heard only good things about this rifle. Also, it has a lot of potential and is modular. I can exchange a gas piston assembly into the gun and change barrels. I was planning to start shooting 6.8 spl eventually , when I start getting into reloading and would find changing a barrel to be a nice feeature and would be more economical than buying another complete upper.
 
I know too many long time AR owners and have far too much experience with these rifles to fall for the fictional claims by many who post here.

Well, if you ever get tired of posting about how much shooting experience you have, it is always nice to have somebody else who is training hard and sharing their training experiences with us. I know I have been able to learn a lot from guys on here that way and I am sure I have something to learn from you as well given how different our individual experiences have been with shooting ARs.
 
My local gun purveyor has a LMT carbine on display. This thing is beautiful and small.
Beautiful in that the machining is perfect, and there doesn't seem to be anything that isn't needed. I'd love one, but my Colt has been perfect so I don't need two.
 
Well, the deal is done..

Today, I just purchased a brand new LMT MRP CQB 16 for $1670 shipped and transferred. I bought the complete upper and lower (Complete rifle). I had many options and gun prices were looking good, but I went with this gun because of all I read from various websites and from talking with some experienced shooters who also gave me the green light with this gun. I was considering a Colt 6940, S&W M&P15T or even a Robinson XCR, but the LMT MRP CQB was the choice I made.

I hope I did well.. These guns are very hard to find and I saw some people selling them for over $2000, so I feel lucky I could get such a deal. I am going to get some tacti-cool gadgets for the gun soon, like laser, light and foregrip and will hopefully get some gun porn up here when I get it all setup.

I know many will say Noveske was better, but those guns were just too dang expensive and I don't really know how much better a Noveske is.

I do appreciate the various suggestions and advice that people have given me here.
 
Ive never known a single person to ever wear out a commercially available AR

Just want to say that I know shooters that change out their bolt/barrel every year because they shoot so much.

I have seen cracks appear in bolts in as little as 5k rounds.
 
Colt has nice one's that are about $2000 and under. With the Colt, you get the 100+ year old firearm making expirence. May not be as cheap, but you will be quite satisfied. My buddy owns the National Match Heavy Barrel (HBAR). Your going to pay more for things like that, but its a dream come true at the target bench. I can only speak for the Colt because I've shot it, but I'm sure the others aren't garbage either.
 
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