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Best rifle for a beginning adult to learn marksmanship?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by jblane, Dec 29, 2009.

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  1. Brimic

    Brimic Member

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    The 452 LUX is a very nice rifle, but I would rather go down a few grades to the 452 Trainer and use the exrtra $200 in my pocket to buy some good sights.

    There are a lot of old Remington, Springfield, and Mossberg target rifles on racks in gun shops with excellent Lyman or Parker Hale target sights on them that can be had for around 4 bills or less.
     
  2. jblane

    jblane Member

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    Wow, so many options. I'm still leaning towards the CZ 452, but I'll look into the Savage, Marlin and Kimber guns some have recommended. I won't be buying for a couple weeks, so I have time to think it over.

    One other question: I was assuming that iron sights are the way to go for learning and didn't plan on buying a scope right away. Does this make sense? How far can you shoot with iron sights before you'd need some kind of magnification? Will I be able to go out to 100 yards?
     
  3. OhioChief

    OhioChief Member

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    I'm teaching my wife to shoot. .38/.357 Ruger Handgun. And the Colt .22LR which looks feels exactly the same as my AR. She's doing great with both. We fire the $##$ out of that .22LR and the ammo is almost free it's so cheap. When I'm ready to put the AR in her hands, I'll have no worries that she'll shoot great. I have a couple .22LR The Remmington VTR and Colt. They are both very reliable (with quality ammo) and tons of fun to just rip up with. And a great learning tool. Will do the same with my son.
     
  4. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    There are two different things here that pull me in two opposite directions. First is the marksmanship. For this the three rifles you listed do great, some do certain things better than the others, but all are good options.

    The second point is home defense, or at least practice for home defense. In a home defense situation I would not be looking for a bolt action rifle. I would want something semi-automatic, be it pistol, shotgun, or rifle. I think for the home defense idea something on the lines of a Marlin model 60, a Ruger 10-22, or a Remington 597 would fit well. These rifles will teach you basics of how to shoot but will also be usable in more speed oriented drills to practice for home defense. You don't need to be able to shoot bugholes at 100 yards in a home defense situation. You need speed and maneuverability. Something that is fairly compact and shoots follow up shots quickly is my pick, which doesn't fit the three models you selected in the slightest.

    So is this to learn how to shoot accurately or how to shoot to survive? That plays all the difference.

    I really like the CZ models. The iron sight options are great and the stocks fit very well for irons use. Their sightless models are also designed well and all are of great quality for the price. I also am in love with my Savage Mk II FVT. This gives me aperture sights on a very accurate rifle. It has become one of my favorite rifles to use, though I have been bitten a bit by the prone shooting bug so it take it for what it is. The Kimber is big, heavy, and expensive. I have heard some people claim the accuracy is great while others find it average at best. I have also heard, though have no proof, that the reason the kimber rifles are available is that the government ended their contract with Kimber as they did not measure up to the accuracy guarantees Kimber promised. True or not I can't say. Just what I heard. For the price I am hard pressed to find out first hand. A heavy barreled Anschutz or two aren't too far from the $600 price of the Kimber. These are all rifles to really learn how to shoot accurately, not so much for home defense.

    Maybe I misunderstood what was meant but I would be looking at two different rifles to learn marksmanship and home defense.
     
  5. jblane

    jblane Member

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    The .22 will be solely for learning to shoot accurately. Once I've done that, I'll buy a higher caliber rifle for home defense, which would probably be a semi-auto. Meanwhile, I have a shotgun for defense. I was a bit vague in my OP, for me the rifle is really more about recreational target shooting than home defense. It's hard to be precise about these things as I'm still learning the basics. So I think bolt action is the way to go for my first rifle.
     
  6. Brimic

    Brimic Member

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    Plenty of people shoot 1000 yards and beyond with iron sights. If you use a rear aperture sight with a front aperture globe sight, a bullseye target will actually appear a lot more clearly and sharply through the sights than with the naked eye. With such a sight set up, you focus on the front sight and the target sort of 'lights up' (its the best description that I have for it) when centered. Using a front post with a rear aperture, the target still looks sharper. Another benifit is less eye strain.



    Open iron sights are ok, especially for a hunting rifle, but for serious marksmanship practice, aperture sights are 1000x better.
     
  7. project88

    project88 Member

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    if you would like a heavier barreled rifle with iron sights consider these two fom savage
    MarkII FVT
    MarkI FVT
    one is magazine fed and the other is a single shot or if you want something with a little more range
    93 fv
    here's the link to savage's sight
    http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models
     
  8. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    Savage Mark II.
     
  9. blackops

    blackops Member

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    I'm not a CZ guy. Savage out of your options.
     
  10. dak0ta

    dak0ta Member

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    Marlin 925, check it out. The T-900 trigger is very crisp. Microgroove barrel is highly accurate. Plus the wood stock seems better than that of the Savage MkII G's. They also come in synthetic 925R models with scopes.
     
  11. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    Buy what you can afford........

    A rifle in .22 cal makes a good "starter" round and a good rifle for your collection( that will come.) :)

    Are you a member of the NRA ? If not..........join.
     
  12. nulfisin

    nulfisin Member

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    If you are going to use a rifle for HD, it may be an AR. There are 22 LR ARs that are fun to shoot, affordable, and as useful as any other gun for teaching marksmanship. They are, after all, rifles.
     
  13. Rancho Relaxo

    Rancho Relaxo Member

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    I love my 452 Lux because it is super accurate and feels like a full size rifle.
     
  14. goon

    goon Member

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    I'd also heavily favor the CZ-452.
    But you can get a Savage for about $130 new at Wal-Mart.
    You might even consider a used Marlin model 60 for that matter if a good one presents itself.

    Having said that, looking back on the purchase of my CZ-542 trainer, I definitely don't feel any regrets!
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  15. jblane

    jblane Member

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    This looks like a good rifle, and much cheaper than the CZ. Guess I need to figure out how much I want to spend on a starter rifle. The money I save on my .22 can go towards buying a better 30-06 and/or scope when it's time to move up. Still, I like the CZ's rep for supreme accuracy. Seems that will allow me to really hone my skills from the get-go. This is cool, even deciding on a rifle is fun. Can't wait till I can start shooting one!

    EDIT: Does the Marlin 925 have adjustable sights? What about the 980? It's not that much more expensive and I believe it does have them. I do want to learn how to use adjustable sights, so that would be an important factor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2009
  16. XxWINxX94

    XxWINxX94 Member

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    I'd go with a Remington 512 Sportmaster .22LR. I don't know how common they are now but I've used mine and its a great plinking gun. It is a small caliber and recoil is nothing. The Blue Book Price is like $150.
     
  17. goon

    goon Member

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    You gotta get yourself to a gun store and handle them both. I have nothing against a Marlin but a Marlin isn't the equal of a CZ-452 IMO.
     
  18. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    The problem is that the Marlin and Savage options are half the cost of the CZ, yet the accuracy is close to, if not equal to, the CZ. I have all three, Marlin, Savage, and CZ. My Marlin and Savage aren't quite as accurate as my CZs but they are very close. They in all honesty do very well and shoot amazing for their price. What they don't have is the feel of the CZ. Both the Savage and Marlin rimfire actions feel like cheap rimfire actions. The CZ feels like a small centerfire. It looks and feels like it could handle .22 hornet without a hiccup. It is one of those things that I can't put a value on and is subjective to each user. From the aspect of dollar spent per group size the Savage/Marlin are tough to beat. If you consider the craftsmanship of the CZ it is easily the winner. These three are again three great shooting rifles that will be great learning tools. Today's .22lr market is pretty tough. Everyone has a good shooting model out there for little money. I wouldn't worry to much over the rifle in this market. While the Savage/Marlin are the budget side they still on average shoot amazing and will allow for you to learn all you need.

    I guess the short of it would be to buy what you like as today they are all pretty good. Don't sweat the petty.
     
  19. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    See of the CMP has any mossberg 44us(a) on tap. Good solid very big rifle feel to it, and it isn't a slouch in accuracy. Add some of the redfield olympic sights that CMP has for sale and you have a rifle that will last longer than you will.
     
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