Best States For Concealed Carry (Guns & Ammo Article)

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Fred Fuller, Oct 29, 2013.

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  1. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    An interesting exercise, I thought - I enjoyed the article.

    I started out in concealed carry in AL when I turned 21 (that would have been 1974). When I moved to NC to go to work at Ft. Bragg in the early 1980s, there was no such thing as a concealed carry permit at the time. That came later, and I waited for a while before applying for and receiving a concealed carry permit in NC.

    In preparing to instruct formally, I had gone through several of the NRA Instructor classes and passed them, as well as attending the first class in eastern NC for private instructors to teach concealed carry classes to the public. But I developed a seizure disorder, and stopped shooting - and deep sea fishing, surfing, driving etc - and eventually working as well, due to an early retirement. I didn't apply for a concealed carry permit or start formal training again until I was confident the seizure disorder was no longer a threat.

    The NC permit was sort of a pain to get, it seemed the NC Leg (pronounced more like ledge, which is slang for legislature) was genuinely afraid of their constituents and what they might do if allowed to go about carrying (gasp) CONCEALED PISTOLS EVERYWHERE. So they made lots of places off limits - the joke for a while was that in NC, the CCH permit was for 'concealed carry holster' not 'concealed carry handgun.' They wrote in requirements for a criminal background check and a mental health background check as well as a somewhat dubious training class in NC self defense law and a short range session that demonstrated the applicant's ability to successfully discharge a firearm downrange. There was no actual firearms training involved as such in the process outlined by the law. The process was lengthy, fairly expensive, but at least the permit was good for several years.

    Due to family circumstances I moved my state of residence back to AL, though I still spend a good bit of time in NC, and since I had an AL drivers license, I went ahead and got a concealed carry permit back there as well also. Walk into the local sheriff's office, fill out a one page form, go back three days later and retrieve the permit. One year later, go back and renew it, another twenty bucks. Pretty much like it was in 1974, except back then it cost $5 IIRC.

    If you're willing to share, what's your CCW background? What are your thoughts on the article, on your state's training requirements for CCW if any, etc.?

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/10/24/best-concealed-carry-states-2013-text-only/
     
  2. charliehustle10

    charliehustle10 Member

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    I have an NC permit as well. Training was a little silly, but there was a number of people in my first class that had never fired a handgun before...so I guess I see the necessity. It did take way too long to get the permit, I think it was 90 days. It looks like they've opened up the spectrum of establishments where you can carry now, but it still is a PITA that gun signs carry the force of law, and sometimes are posted so poorly you can't see them until your are halfway in a store. Duty-to-inform an officer isn't really a huge problem for me, I've had one interaction with a game warden and one with a highway patrolman that just said "Thanks for letting me know". I feel like it's helpful to be open about it to potentially de-escalate any sticky situations- but yeah I get that not everyone thinks it's a LEO's bussiness. I'm still a little confused about "pre-emption" which is discussed in the article. According to NC law, local govt. can't create laws that restrict carry (with some exceptions)- but nonetheless they still do. All in all, happy I'm not in D.C.

    I applied for AZ by mail with a copy of my NC permit. Received it back by mail in maybe a month (est.). Seems like they have the right mind-frame there. It wasn't cheap, but super easy.
     
  3. bainter1212

    bainter1212 Member

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    I am waiting for my approval letter right now (I live in Sacramento County, CA). Took a year of waiting to get an appt, estimated 40 days to get my approval letter. Then I have to do a Livescan (another 40 days wait for that) and take my two day class. Then an issuance appointment.

    This county was forced to start issuing as part of a lawsuit settlement (as I understand it). The Sheriff's deputies don't seem too keen on issuing these permits but they do it anyway. Seems like they make the process as difficult as possible on purpose.

    Then again, when they started issuing they were slammed with applicants. I believe they are still slammed with applicants.

    That is the extent of my legal carry history. It hasn't quite happened yet.
     
  4. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Florida isn't bad. In fact, its statewide control of carry-licensing, enacted in 1987 to fix a broken system of county-by-county regulations, has often been held up as sort of a comparison example, by both sides of the gun debate. There are a few off-limits places, most of which are also on that list in most other states.

    I remember the days leading up to the law's taking effect. The media was truly whipped up in a frenzy, predicting streets awash in the blood of innocents as "Old-West-style" gunslingers duel it out over everything from girls to parking spaces. It was downright comical. We're still waiting for the bloodshed to materialize.

    I turned 21 three months before the effective date, and was sworn in as a LEO two months after the effective date. I never bothered to get a license at that time. I got out of LE a few years later, but still didn't get my license.

    Requirements to obtain such a license haven't changed much over the years. Be clean, submit the proper application and required attachments, and take one of a number of approved firearms safety or use classes. No "qualification" or proof of proficiency is required.

    I finally did get my license in 2008. Sent in the application in July, and had it in August. It's good until 2015. I did not take the class, instead submitting a copy of my LE certificate, which was still acceptable despite having been expired.

    By the way, it is, in this state, a license to carry a firearm or weapon, so numerous other types of weapons are covered as well. In some states, only a firearm (and only a single firearm in yet some) is permitted. Other states do not address "other weapons", so they are already legal to carry concealed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  5. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Virginia is pretty easy and straight forward. Took about a month to get it.
     
  6. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I quickly skimmed the article and immediately noted two errors. Missouri and Virginia are given the maximum rating under "stand your ground", but in both states, there is a duty to retreat.
     
  7. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I noticed an error, too. Well, more like a "fault" in the rating regarding hours needed for training (when required.) Florida does not mandate any specific minimum time, and I'm sure there are others as well.
     
  8. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes - see the comments.

    Still, IMO it was an interesting way to come up with rankings - even if they didn't get all the numbers correct in every category.
     
  9. gondorian

    gondorian Member

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    It's interesting how high Illinois ranked even though nobody has a permit yet.
     
  10. tepin

    tepin Member

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    I've had my MN permit since 2003 and have a non-resident PA permit. Nice to see I built my vacation / retirement home in the correct state (Arizona).

    While training is required, there is no statutory minimum number of hours for the class.

    Outside the home we have a duty to retreat. There is no blanket immunity to a successful DGU. There is no presumption if being in fear of GBH if faced with a home invasion.

    Permits are good for 5 years and a carry permit also acts as a permit to purchase (handgun or so called assault weapon).

    Permits are good for 5 years. The sheriff can charge a max of 100.00 for new permits and a max of 75.00 for renewals. Renewals expired by more than 30 days are considered new applications and subject to the 100.00 fee. You can renew within 90 of expiration.

    Some counties make the application process easier than others but generally I believe we have a pretty good system here in MN. Wishlist item would include SYG.
     
  11. UpTheHill

    UpTheHill Member

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    Vermont would be the best, since if you're allowed to own firearms, you can carry concealed in VT with no permits necessary. I'm in Maine now and it took 1 1/2 weeks to get it from the town I live in. Maine does allow open carry, but I wouldn't try it in the larger areas of Maine like Portland or Bangor.
     
  12. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Upthehill writes:

    As does the Vermont you mentioned, again, with no permit/license required.

    The only issue with Vermont is that the fact there is no license/permit, there isn't one you can take to another state if you travel. So, states that require a permit and honor those of other states cannot allow a visiting Vermont resident to carry.
     
  13. stogiegila

    stogiegila Member

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    You can carry concealed in AZ without a permit. Doesn't get any easier than that
     
  14. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Depends, I guess, on what "best" means.

    I live in a state that doesn't have all that many permits. The upshot of that is, no one expects it and no one looks. Heck, even LEO's don't run into all that many legal carriers, and I don't think they look all that hard unless it's someone otherwise deserving close attention.

    So, "best" from the standpoint of going unnoticed would be a state like mine.
     
  15. junglebob

    junglebob Member

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    The concealed carry law is shall issue with preemption. Also Illinois does have pretty good self defense laws. Also non-residents can get a permit, not cheap $300. Non-residents who can carry in their home state can conceal carry in their vehicle, wouldn't suggest that without a CCW from your state even if you can open carry without it.

    Firearm transport laws are better than in some states only needs to be encased unloaded, no round in chamber and magazine must be out of gun but a loaded magazine can be with the gun in the case. The case can be in the passenger compartment within reach and the courts have ruled that an unlocked console is a case. There are no stipulations on where you transport to. So many folks like me will transport our handgun anywhere it is legal, called "container transport" or "fanny pack transport". The CCW law made transport laws uniform throughout the state.

    Illinois should start issuing CCWs in the spring of 2014..
     
  16. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    Well, I think this article doesn't delve very deeply into the issue. I've lived in both Colorado and Ohio as a gun owner, and Colorado is a much easier place to deal with than Ohio when it comes to carrying a gun (and that remains so, despite all of the unwanted press we've had this year here in the Rockies).

    First, with or without a permit a person is allowed to carry a loaded and concealed handgun in their vehicle in Colorado, just so long as they are legally allowed to own that gun. That isn't so in Ohio. Second, you can carry into restaurants, liquor stores, liquor establishments, and other such venues here in Colorado without any problems. That isn't necessarily so in Ohio. Third, anti-carry signs have no force of law here in Colorado. No gun sign? Carry anyway? No problem. Again, not so in Ohio.

    But, Ohio outranked Colorado (albeit slightly) on the factors that were measured in this article. Nevertheless, Colorado is a much more carry-friendly state than Ohio, without a doubt.
     
  17. NoVA Shooter

    NoVA Shooter Member

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    I find the article and ranking very interesting and informative. However I do believe there is a 'flaw' in the scoring method.

    Primarily, I disagree with how some of the criteria are weighted. I don’t believe application fee or training time should hold the same weight as castle doctrine or more weight that pre-emption. To me, pre-emption is a very import aspect of my right to carry and how I can carry. A shall-issue state is meaningless if every local jurisdiction can simply craft a law to make CC difficult or impossible.

    There are a couple other minor issues I have (use of Best States for Gun Owners, point differentials within criteria), but all in all, a nice article.
     
  18. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Not nearly enough importance is given to:

    *Places off limits for carry

    You want to talk about actual, factual, real life influence on your daily live as a result of carry laws, this is as important as it gets after "shall issue" or not.

    Difficultly (price, training, expense, etc) in obtaining the carry licenses isn't given enough weight either, IMO.
     
  19. RBid

    RBid Member

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    Oregon's rating in that list is a joke. They acknowledge that we can carry pretty much everywhere (relevant to every carrier, every day), and ding us for poor reciprocity (relevant only when traveling). The fun part is that reciprocity is hardly an issue. I live in OR and work in WA. I had no trouble getting a WA CHL, and any carriers I know who travel have picked up AZ, UT, FL, and/or a combination of the above. Many places here offer combined classes to cover multiple states, so it doesn't even require extra effort.

    This is a fantastic place for members of the gun community to live.
     
  20. PabloJ

    PabloJ member

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    If one does not mind colder weather I would rank Vermont #1. A big plus is that is state with moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats which makes for wonderful place to live. One day I will go back there.
     
  21. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    coloradokevin is right- the Colorado position on that list is completely off base. Yes, you may have pay $150 and wait 90 days, but once your five year permit comes arrives, your can go about your daily business pretty much without issue. No stupid 51% rules, .30-06 signs, or other oddities. In some states, walking through the bar portion of Applebees on the way to the bathroom would be a violation. Just keep it concealed to avoid open carry issues in Denver and some other city/county owned buildings or parks around the state.
     
  22. rem44m

    rem44m Member

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    Whenever I tell visitors Utah is an awesome carry state people always seemed a little surprised. It's great to see how all the states stack up!

    Thanks for posting this.
     
  23. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    Since there have been comments concerning NC-CHP my only comment is as follows: Who would have ever thought that a Pennsylvania CHP would be easer to obtain and less restrictive than NC. So much for gun friendly NC concept.
     
  24. chieftain

    chieftain Member

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    Hate to gloat, but Arizona has done a pretty good job. Ain't perfect but pretty good.

    Just renewed my CCW last month. I keep it up because I still drive to Texas regularly to Daughter and granddaughter.

    When I was back home in Florida I did get a Florida CCW but let it lapse about 15 years ago.

    Good luck.

    Fred
     
  25. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    And, actually, some of this may be improving, too. My girlfriend submitted her application for a concealed carry permit just two or three weeks ago, and got a call on Friday telling her that she could come in to get the permit... that's MUCH faster than it was the last time I checked into the issue.
     
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