Best value sniper rifle - probably milsurp

[Zak Smith]

Horus type reticles are good for large targets that have good contrast with the background. These limitations have put them out of favor with many precision/long-range shooters. For quick holds on large targets, almost any type of reticle marks will get the job done (including Horus).

 

[Claude Clay]

another vote for the K31. and if you reload it uses the same components as 308 ( not the brass of course). andother value it the Swede m96 6.5x5. its very much like our 30-30 with less recoil.
more traditionally my rem 700 has gone to 1000 yards with 3 shot 6" groups. 8" is commen. but its 3x $ the set up of a K-32 or M96.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I have a buddy who enjoys the long range shooting more than I do. He's also a prepper. What I mean by that is he believes a time will come in which civilized society goes south. I'm making no statement on that view.

What I am interested in, though, is your thoughts on the best value in a sniper rifle for him, a poor college student. Obviously a Mosin comes to mind - and they can be had very cheap.

What else though? Something that, along with a decent scope, would allow this guy to reach out several hundred yards.

Yes, I am deliberately being vague here because I'm interested in a variety of responses.

I appreciate being vague but has your "buddy" benefited from your efforts/ these responses?

 

[Dr. Sandman]

Mil-surp rifles are not where its at. That stuff is, sadly enough, junk. You need 1 rifle and 1 rifleman to have any chance at less than 1MOA at 1000 yards. Good luck with a $100 piece of junk with that proposition. Get a real rifle (338 Lapua, etc.), $2500 or so. Then spend another $2000 on optics. Buy lots of ammunition and shoot every day. Anything else and you are wasting time.

338 Lapua is over 50 bucks a box for the ammo now, and they don't just carry that stuff everywhere. I would think that a prepper would want a common, ubiquitous, and relativly inexpensive high powered rifle caliber. I like 7mm Rem Mag, they have it at WalMart, Meijer, Big R, etc. If you want to go another route, 30-06 in even less expensive. They don't have 338 Lapua, 50 BMG, etc at these places.

Also, I beg to differ with the opinion that Mil-surp rifles are junk. You don't have to spend $4400 to reach out and touch something at a few hundred yards. I'll betcha that most subscribers to that opinion must have a billable diagnosis in there somewhere, eh Dr. 2 B?

 

[451 Detonics]

BTW, What are all those "preppers" going to do when their vehicle runs out of fuel and they have 500 lbs. of gear in the back seat?

go diesel and keep a strainer and cheesecloth in the car...every fast food restaurant in the US has a used oil trap out back

as for the rifle a Mauser comes to mind for milsurp but honestly a used Savage will do a great job...

 

[henschman]

I wouldn't go with a mil-surp for a sniper rifle. Mil-surps are fine as battle rifles, for taking care of torso-sized targets under 500 yards (which would mean you only need to be able to shoot 4 MOA with it), but for sniping there are a lot better choices, and you can afford to have a lot higher standards than that, even on a budget.

I would say start with a commercial hunting rifle that is fairly accurate to begin with and has a good deal of after-market support for it... a Remington 700 or a Savage 110 are the best choices IMO. You could slap any old deer rifle scope on either one of those, in any of the main calibers, and with some good fundamentals and knowing your dope, you could be VERY dangerous out to 1000 yards.

If you've settled on a Remington or a Savage, you have to pick a caliber... or rather an action length... short action or long action. Short action is .308 and all the rounds based on it, like 7mm '08, .243, .260 Rem, etc., and long action is .30-06, .300 win mag, .270, etc.

I would go with a short action, and try to find a .308 to start with. Then you would have a wide selection of good factory ammo (important for SHTF considerations, since you want to be able to stockpile a good amount of ammo, and you probably won't yet be into reloading when you are buying your starter rifle). The nice thing about the Winchester or Savage is that you can upgrade as your skills get to the point where you would benefit from it... the next things you would look at are a good barrel, trigger, and stock. You will eventually want to get into hand-loading too, since that will let you tailor a load to what shoots the very best in your rifle and is a lot more cost-effective compared to good factory ammo. You might eventually want to re-barrel in a more effective long range caliber like .260 Rem, once you get into hand-loading.

However, no matter how nice of a rig you build, a sniper rifle does not a sniper make. You definitely need to get some training. I would go to an Appleseed to begin with, because they teach the fundamentals the best of anybody I've seen and are very cheap to attend. You can go with a .22 and a brick of shells, and learn more in a weekend than just about anywhere else. In fact, I would go to the Appleseed with your buddy RIGHT NOW, before you do anything else. And then once you can shoot Expert by their standards, you can get a decent base rifle as I discussed, and look into some sort of precision rifle training near you. But if you can't even shoot Expert from field positions on Appleseed's 25m Army Qualification Test, you shouldn't harbor any illusions about being a sniper when the SHTF. And Appleseed might dis-abuse your friend of some of those fantasy notions and get him more interested in fighting the "soft war" RIGHT NOW to preserve our liberties when it's relatively easy to do so, instead of sitting around waiting for the S to HTF.

Not that there's anything wrong with putting together a good sniper rifle and learning how to use it, just in case!

 

[f4t9r]

Stevens model 100, made by Savage.
Is a nice bolt action for the money

 

[Buzzard II]

You may want to first consider the area you live or will operate in. NATO caliber so availability is not a problem, .223/5.56-for close in, but .308/7.62 for better penetration, better stopping power, and higher velocity at a distance. Up close, you can't beat .45 acp. (Jersey reload). Don't forget the other gear you need too!

 

[Phaethon]

Guys, I doubt that he actually expects to be running around in a Mad Max style wasteland indiscriminately shooting people at a thousand yards. The OP used the term "sniper rifle" loosely, I suspect that what his friend is looking for is just an optical-equipped rifle that would enable him to hunt and reach-out-and-touch someone if he had to. I really do not think anyone will have to shoot at someone or something else from farther away than 500 yards for any reason.

I also seriously doubt that he, a poor college student who it would seem doesn't have a rifle to begin with, is even capable of that kind of shooting.

Frankly there are several milsurps and commercial hunting rifles that will handle this role admirably. K31, Mauser, or any Savage or Remington out of your local Cabella's chambered in .308. Since it's a survival rifle and not a wall-hanger, you can give it a polymer stock, short barrel, and drilled scope mounts.

You can even make it a project to add in iron sights yourself using some simple hand tools; I saw a youtube video from Midway USA on how to accomplish this fairly easily. Either just keep those as backups or get high-mounted scope rings with peepholes that let you use irons, and you have a well balanced rifle.

 

[HavelockLEO]

why go the mil-surp route to begin with. If you shop around and bide your time you can get an FN PBR or better for a really good price from CDNN. Then its just a matter of ammo and a good quality scope.

 

[Beak50]

I got a K-31 for Christmas this year,I absolutely love that rifle.the bottom of the stock is worn as can be expected But I'm saving for a drop-in walnut stock when my taxe's get in.All I have shot is the Mil-surp since it's non-corrosive but plan on Re-loading.Excellent Gun.I wonder why someone wont make them New again.Mine is a heck of alot more accurate then I would have ever expected from a $210.00 gun.I am still debateing putting a scope on it.

 

[35 Whelen]

I got a K-31 for Christmas this year,I absolutely love that rifle.the bottom of the stock is worn as can be expected But I'm saving for a drop-in walnut stock when my taxe's get in.All I have shot is the Mil-surp since it's non-corrosive but plan on Re-loading.Excellent Gun.I wonder why someone wont make them New again.Mine is a heck of alot more accurate then I would have ever expected from a $210.00 gun.I am still debateing putting a scope on it.

I've read more than once that due to the design and the fact that K-31's are of such high quality, (nice finish, no machining marks) it would cost in excess of $1000 to replicate these rifles.

why go the mil-surp route to begin with. If you shop around and bide your time you can get an FN PBR or better for a really good price from CDNN. Then its just a matter of ammo and a good quality scope

I guess you missed the "poor college student" portion of the OP. I don't think a $1000+ patrol rifle with a quality scope will fit into his budget.
35W

 

[HavelockLEO]

I guess you missed the "poor college student" portion of the OP. I don't think a $1000+ patrol rifle with a quality scope will fit into his budget

No I didnt miss it, I built my PBR for under 800 dollars in its first interation, timing and shopping around is all I had on my side, its not impossible

 

[35 Whelen]

No I didnt miss it, I built my PBR for under 800 dollars in its first interation, timing and shopping around is all I had on my side, its not impossible

Well, then I guess your definition of "poor college student" and mine are different. Since he specifically mentioned a Mosin in the OP, inference would lead us to believe he's looking for a rifle for $200 +/-.

35W

 

[MJ]

 

[35 Whelen]

That's what I'm talking about! Not exactly a readily available cartridge, but an infinitely more practical rifle, because of its available sights when your scope gets whacked, than rifles such as pseudo sniper rifles, etc

35W

 

[HILLBILLY-06]

Where is this collage boy going to keep all his gear and his sniper rifle and ammo?? Seem's to me like he's iether got a bit of a hike or drive to his "cashe" at least I hope so. Nobody mentioned where he resides. Hopefully, "not on campus" and if he has a long commute to his "cache" then he should spend more time learning his books and less time worrying about the zombie appocolypse.

 

[tarosean]

Pawn shop Remington 700

 

[JimBoIHN]

As to 8mm mauser being 33% more powerful than a 30.06...........ridiculous. The 30.06 case is substantially bigger! If you mean a .22 is more powerful than a 30.06 that is devoid of powder, so what? It's more accurate to suggest a high BC bullet vrs a low one will save inches in drop up to 300 yards, feet of drop up to 600, and yards of drop up to 800.

 

[JimBoIHN]

Savage seems to be a popular recommendation, I have no particular expertise. Calibre in 30.06 is hard to beat, considering performance with cost.
The .338's can run several times as much, with major recoil. You had best limit your sniping to 600 yards or so with the 30.06, but considering finances, you are limited.

 

[P-32]

If a history buff may I suggest:

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/1903-A4-Sniper-Rifle.html

Yeah, yeah, yeah I know it's a repo but it's still neat.

 

[Blue Hill]

Remington 700 in 7mm RM

 

[mljdeckard]

I dunno about going WAY cheap if you're looking for accuracy. You have to really look for an accurate mil-surp, if it's me I'm going to tweak the trigger, put some glass on it, specialized mount, trial and error.....I think I would have been just as well looking in the pawn shops for a good used Savage or Remington that's already set up. Might cost a little more, but less work to do on it.

 

[Irish51]

suggestions to college boy

I've only seen 2 or 3 recent posts here, but thought I'd point a few things out.

First, for you guys who seem to be stuck on the modern day sniper rifle...remember, the snipers during WWII were using the Mausers, Enfields and Mosins rifles that we call milsurps this day in age...so they were the sniper rifles back in the day. My brother-in-law did 3 tours in Nam...his 2nd was on hill 55 and the VC didn't do too badly picking off our GI's at 700 yds with a mosin 91/30 with PU scope. The Russian snipers (Red Army) dropped more nazi solders with Mosins than the Nazi sniper dropped Russian...and the K98 Mauser was a better rifle than the Mosin in most people's opinion, which I agree with, but only due to the construction of the Mauser. I have a sporterized 91/30 Mosin Nagant that I did all my own work on... I cut the barrel down to 22", bought a cheap ATI stock for it, pillared and glass bedded the stock, recrowned the muzzle, drilled and tapped a $45 ATI scope mount on it, cut/welded a sniper bolt handle on, installed a used (Ebay) 3X9 Bushnell scope on it and it will shoot 1.5-2 MOA all day long at 200 yds. One just doesn't need to learn about his rifle, he must learn about himself. In order to reach near perfect with both, it takes practice,practice and more practice. Most of us are going to react/shoot differently when shooting at paper vs. shooting at a 12 point buck moving slowly towards the cover of brush and leaving you little time to nail him before he enters the woodline and you lose sight of him...not to mention shooting at another human being who is also armed and capable of shooting back at you.That always makes for an interesting lesson as to how you will react and how it will affect your marksmenship and accuracy in a SHTF situation.

The name of the game is practice,practice,practice...with the SAME ammo, whether it is match grade ammo or milsurp ammo. Learn your rifle...learn your reaction time, notice how well you manage your adrenaline rush and breathing when you spot that trophey buck....multiple that by 10 times and switch it with fear and you might get an idea of what it is like to look down through the sites of your rifle at a human being in a SHTF situation.

If I found myself in a SHTF situation of survival, I would take my AK 47 w/improved iron sites, my 308 scoped Mauser and my 1911 Colt .45...the same one that was issued to my Dad by the USAAF in Dec of 43 when he was flying B-17 bomber missions over German. The K31 is for sure a more accurate rifle if you do your part, but I would not want to be carrying that through the woods all day long. Its one heavy firearm ! and the ammo is not as easy to get if you find yourself in a pinch and looking for ammo. Just another reason I'd take my .308 Mauser. I'd also take light weight supplies that others have suggested : food,blankets and as much ammo as I could comfortably carry.. I would hope to be with 3-4 other capable people who could help carrying provisions as well.

I don't think it is being paranoid if we find ourselves prepping for the posibility of a SHTF situation...especially after seeing the Constitution and Bill of Rights totally ignored by the present administration who flip the Executive order coin everytime it looks like his cronies in the House and Senate get out voted. I think we may very well find ourselves in an all out survival mode, not necessarily aganst our government, but because our government will not be able to protect us in the chaos it created. Look at the fiasco that took place when Katrina hit New Orleans. For the first time in US history, the local government/police were confiscating peoples firearms and leaving them defenseless against robbers, looters and desperate people.


So college boy...Bone up on your marksmenship using silhouette targets rather than bullseye tragets, so your mind does not get trained on focusing/looking for a bullseye. I take a spray can of red paint and spray a red dot at center mass on my silhouette targets when practicing. Buy as much rifle as you can afford and if that's a Mosin, well read up online as to how to accurize it...Most steps are easy and inexpensive and you can plan on spending $250 minimum to do it or spend another $100 and get a Marlin, Savage (my 1st choice) or Mossberg 308 or 30-06 from Wally World or a pawn shop and then another $100 (minimum) for the scope.Lots of wholesalers sell on Ebay cheaper than gun sites and sporting goods stores. Spend some time in the woods ALONE with barely enough supplies to survive to hone up your survival skills. Once you become one with nature, you'll learn a lot and have a much better chance at surviving.

Like I said: Just my 2 cents based on previous experiences.

My best to you all...Irish

 

[lefteyedom]

Get a heavy barrel 22LR rifle. Practice till hard boiled eggs become one shot kills at 100 yards in any and all weather. (not shooting from a bench).

If one wants a "Military Grade Sniper Rifle" then be prepared to write about a 4K check for the complete system. Plenty of Gunsmiths are able to build these clones/target/varmit rifles

There are better rifles than Mosins for less than $500 .

Other wise about $1000 can piece together a good 800 yard rifle & scope set up.
Savage 110 (308/30.06) with a good 3x9x40 scope will do this with good ammo.

The real question is when the "SHTF" what type of weapon is really going to be most useful? Likely a not a 14 pound target rifle. Something like a Scout Rifle may be much more useful.