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Beware POSSIBLE gun buy sting.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by leadcounsel, Jun 19, 2007.

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  1. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    When selling your guns, make sure you’re following the law! This was probably not a sting, but it got me thinking that this could have been very serious.

    Over the weekend I found a potential buyer for a handgun I have for sale. I met the buyer at a neutral location of his suggestion, a gas station. I always prepare a bill of transfer for both parties benefit (I just like to CYA; so buyer has proof of the date purchased and seller has proof of the date sold). Seller had offered a partial trade for a POLICE Mossberg 500A Riot gun and cash for my Beretta. It was a pretty good deal for me and I was looking forward to it. Seller showed up with a friend who waited in the car.

    Seller seemed too young to buy the handgun and his license revealed he was only 19. I questioned him on this and he said that he really wanted to buy the handgun. He kept pressing the point. When I told him I wouldn’t sell it to him he suggested that I sell it to his friend. Again, I said no and I explained to him that would be a straw purchase and still illegal. I walked away from what was a pretty good deal and felt very good about walking away.

    Keep that in mind when doing your next sale.
     
  2. longwatch

    longwatch Member

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    What state are you in and is it in fact illegal for someone under 21 to buy a handgun there? Just saying, in many states it is perfectly legal for an 18-20 year old to buy a pistol from a FTF sale.
     
  3. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Private sales of handguns to people over the age of 18 are legal per Federal law.

    Straw purchase is not meaningful in this situation since it only applies to sales from an FFL on a 4473.
     
  4. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    There is no federal law preventing a non-dealer from selling a handgun to someone over the age of 18. Does your state prohibit it?
     
  5. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    That reeks to high heaven of BATFE attempt to entrap.
     
  6. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Walking away was probably one of the smartest things you have done all year. It certainly is not worth losing a career and becoming a felon over. What kind of Berretta?
     
  7. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    92FS for sale on THR.
     
  8. longwatch

    longwatch Member

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  9. Tim James

    Tim James Member

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    Uh, way to follow-up there on the other questions. :scrutiny: :)
     
  10. Daniel T

    Daniel T Member

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    Yeah, damn the ATF for entrapping someone by getting them to do something legal.


    Wait, what?
     
  11. Tim James

    Tim James Member

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    I know it's popular to use sarcasm on the gun forums, but your post doesn't make sense. The guy was just offering his opinion that the shady sale the original poster went through sounds like a sting operation to him.

    Make sure you are an experienced practitioner of wit and irony before utilizing them in public discourse.
     
  12. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Straw sales aren't legal, and that's what the purported buyer is alleged to have requested.

    Waco started when a delivery truck driver reported the delivery of LEGAL items to the Branch Davidians.

    You're more likely to get chocolate milk from a crocodile than honesty, decency or justice from the BATFE.
     
  13. longwatch

    longwatch Member

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    Except where does it say that the sale was illegal?
     
  14. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    There is no such thing as straw purchase/sale when it comes to private sales. It is a concept that only applies to purchases from an FFL because the form asks you if you are the actual buyer.
     
  15. Rumble

    Rumble Member

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    Nowhere. If it was legal to sell it to a 19-year-old in that state, then it was legal.

    On the other hand, the OP was not comfortable with the sale, and was not sure it was legal at the time, and therefore made (IMHO) a wise choice. Worst thing he did was bag the sale and maybe tick off the potential buyer. I don't really see a downside from where I'm standing.
     
  16. Tim James

    Tim James Member

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    Ah, some actual straightforward tech from the Internet instead of snippy comments! ;) (I'm the worst at this, I know.) Thanks for clearing that up. Now if we can only get the guy to tell us which state he is in. Isn't it annoying when people post their stories in a legal and political forum but don't mention their state?
     
  17. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Straw purchases are illegal. You will go to jail. It is a felony.
     
  18. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    Go look at Federal law and see where it describes straw purchase. You'll be looking for a long time because it's not there. Straw purchase is not a legal term, it's a convenient description for the illegal act of lying on the Federal form 4473 when it asks you if you are the actual buyer of the firearm.

    There is no Federal form for private sales, so the concept does not apply.
     
  19. longwatch

    longwatch Member

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    But the circumstances of this case don't fall under the definition of a straw purchase. Primarily in that the OP is not an FFL holder, and the actual purchaser was not a prohibited person as far as we know.
     
  20. anygunanywhere

    anygunanywhere Member

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    What Law?

    Federal, state, what law? This was a FTF sale.

    Of course if you ask Brady Center this might have been a gun show loophole??
     
  21. Daniel T

    Daniel T Member

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    Two helpful hints for you:

    1. Try not to be a hypocrite. Deriding someone for using sarcasm over something you don't even understand, and then using it yourself qualifies.

    2. Know what you are actually talking about.

    There was absolutely nothing illegal suggested by the buyer in the OP. While the OP is free to walk away from any deal for any reason, the hysterical suggestions that it was a "BATFE sting" are more than deserving of sarcasm.
     
  22. S.P.E.C.T.R.E.

    S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Member

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    I would have no problem selling a handgun to a 19 year old. When that 19 year old was 17, he was eligible to kill the enemy for the US in the armed forces. Having two demarcated ages of majority (18 and 21) is the dumbest thing we ever came up with.

    Also, the OP should have asked the age before arranging the sale if he was going to be fussy about it.
     
  23. Tim James

    Tim James Member

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    Daniel, I will grant you that I may have jumped too soon (unless there are some state laws we are unaware of), but I do think we all would be better served by less sarcasm. I do it a lot like everyone on the board, and sometimes it makes it more difficult than it should be to have a positive, useful conversation with facts and accuracy. :)
     
  24. AntiqueCollector

    AntiqueCollector Member

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    Gun sting? I bought my first handguns before 21 through private sales. Unless there's a state law that says otherwise, it was a legal sale...
     
  25. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    It's because of situations like this that I only sell to trusted friends and family. If I sell a handgun, it's on consignment. This way, the paper trail stops at the dealer and if the gun is used in a crime, it doesn't come back and bite me in the A$$.

    Good on you for walking away. You saved yourself some pain there.
     
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