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Biden gives tactical advice...shotgun vs AR

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by gspn, Jan 24, 2013.

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  1. gspn

    gspn Member

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    I just saw Joe Biden field this question. A guy notes that many people keep a firearm as a line of last protection in the aftermath of a large natural disaster...ie an earthquake. Listen to Joe give advice on the best weapon to use in such a scenario (plot spoiler...a double barrel shotgun is better than an AR type rifle even in the hands of a trained user).

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...arthquake-buy-some-shotgun-shells_697650.html

    This guy KILLS me. :D
     
  2. wannabeagunsmith

    wannabeagunsmith Member

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    Gotta admit, at least there is some humor to this whole AWB thing this time around..
     
  3. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Follow-up question: then why the {self moderated} do our soldiers carry M-16s and M4s when we could be giving them double-barrel shotguns?

    It aint gonna be funny if they win.
     
  4. Carter

    Carter Member

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    Question: Why doesn't somebody who is a LEO or military officer stand up and say these people are totally wrong? The military does not train to shoot from the hip with their "assault rifles" and a shotgun is nowhere near as easy to use as an AR.
     
  5. 19-3Ben

    19-3Ben Member

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    Love it.
     
  6. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    You know, I'm sure if I ran for office I would have the analytical skills needed to break down these bills into what is great ideas, what could use some work, and what is utterly stupid. Unfortunately I lack the networking and people skills to successfully campaign or convince the other politicians that they are being dunderheads, so I will be happy with writing letters and donating to the NRA.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    A good shot gunner can be quite formidable, so he isn't all wet on this one. The bad thing is that next time they may come for the shotguns, because, after all, they are more devastating than those evil assault rifles we banned. :scrutiny:
     
  8. RonC

    RonC Member

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    Interestingly enough, Biden downplayed the role of "assault-style" weapons in shootings and admitted that they were used in a very small percentage of shootings.
    Looks like he realizes there is no way an "assault weapon" ban is going to come out of the House, so he is focusing his energies on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds (he calls them shells).
    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...kground-checks-and-magazine-restrictions?lite
    Ron
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  9. bigdipper

    bigdipper Member

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    if a shot guns better then an assault weapon (which of course the most powerful kind of weapon on earth) why do you want my AK instead of my mossburg 500?
     
  10. Nickel Plated

    Nickel Plated Member

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    Except it's a good bit harder (and more expensive, practice costs) to be good with a shotgun than to be good-enough with an AR.

    Also I thought they kept saying that the only purpose of an "assault weapon" was to make it easy to kill large numbers of people (which is what you may very well end up doing after a natural disaster if it really comes down to arming yourself) Now apparently they're harmless and shouldn't be counted on to defend yourself with.
    So which is it?

    I guess it's true, as far as they're concerned, you can't have small weak guns because they are too easy to conceal. But you can't have big guns because they're too powerful. Sooo....you can't have anything.
     
  11. gspn

    gspn Member

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    Dude...you just nailed that one shut! Great point!
     
  12. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Very good point, bigdipper. I think the reasoning is that a shotgun with 2 shells is good for 2 bad guys. But with a rifle you might need to pull the trigger more, so it's not as good. I'm not saying I agree with the concept, but that's the idea. A shotgun with 2 shells will be harder to kill 20 kids with than a rifle with 30 rounds. This of course ignores the fact that the kids aren't going to be much of a hindrance to reloading.

    Walkalong, I don't doubt that shotguns are formidable (I think the AR is better for HD, but my HD gun right now is a shotgun because of avialable practice ranges). However, Joe Biden should not be dictating to me what I can and cannot use in self in defense. I should be allowed to make that choice. If anything, that choice should be similar to what our cops use. Why are they transitioning from shotguns to rifles if shotguns are better?

    I think Joe Biden would never go after shotguns, because it sounds like he loves shotguns, but hates the other types of guns. I can kind of sympathize. I don't like 1911s for example. But if I was VP, I wouldn't be calling on a ban of 1911s because I like Glocks better.
     
  13. JFrame

    JFrame Member

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    I actually USED TO think that a shotgun (even a double-barrel) was perfectly fine for home defense in the event of a disaster. But Plugs has persuaded me otherwise.

    I mean, I have never heard anything accurate or intelligent come out of that idiot's mouth... JC_duh.gif


    .
     
  14. gspn

    gspn Member

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    Another great point that highlights yet further intrusion by "big government" into the personal lives of it's citizens.
     
  15. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    It's my choice

    because .gov couldn't afford the cost of quality doubles.
     
  16. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    Huntsman, the debt would suggest that even though they cant afford it, they would buy it anyway.

    Military isnt calling Biden wrong because he is their boss.
     
  17. Habeed

    Habeed member

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    Well

    From the perspective of the authorities, shotguns are less of a menace in civilian hands than ARs, right? The pellets are much more easily stopped by standard torso body armor. This makes me curious what standard 12 gauge shot does when it hits the skull..does the skull or soft tissue of the face provide enough resistance to the shot to cause reduced lethality versus an AR?

    Also, for mass shootings, would a shotgun plausibly kill fewer people? Most shotguns used fixed magazines, and they hold 5-8 rounds. The shot is less likely to pass through one person and hit another. It takes many times longer to reload. To me, with years of experience with video games (sarcasm, I know that is no replacement for real experience) a shotgun has much less firepower. Except when you are up against zombies, of course.
     
  18. -v-

    -v- Member

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    Some practice with a shotgun and getting good at shoveling shells and also properly stacking shells (2 shells stacked ontop of each other and then shoved into the loading gate as one long slinky) a shotgun can be fairly quick to reload.

    That said, Gaff-o-matic is back to it again.
     
  19. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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  20. glennv

    glennv Member

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    The liberals have done a great job at projecting a series arguments on a situation that is totally unrelated to another.

    They rationalize the ideology that you don't need hi-caps and semi-autos but somehow law enforcement officers do because they are more likely to be in a situation which warrants the use of the gun in self defense. Most folks fall for this. Sure the likelihood is much higher for an officer, but once YOU are confronted with a situation that warrants the use of force there is NO difference between you and the officer. The likelihood of a situation shouldn't dictate the level of lethality of the weapon. Again, most folks fall for this. When you raise the issue those folks usually come around.
     
  21. JFrame

    JFrame Member

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    ...Very well said! good2.gif


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  22. r1derbike

    r1derbike Member

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    An LEO or military officer would probably be terminated for telling the truth. They are told to keep their mouths shut, and do their jobs, or face punitive action.
     
  23. greenmtnguy

    greenmtnguy Member

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    Old Joe is now sounding even more like Elmer Fudd with his inclination to double barrel shotguns. While they are lovely pointing firearms for bird hunting and all....
     
  24. barnbwt

    barnbwt Member

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    Well, at least one good thing came out of this:

    No more threads on "AR vs. 12ga For Home Duhfins" :D.

    By deductive reasoning, Biden has proven once and for all the superiority of a rifle platform for protecting against intruders. As that other thread showed, the mere sight of an AR is enough to send the baddies packing :D.

    Biden does seem to love the shotties, though. Ardently. Especially considering his stance on rifles/pistols going back decades. Espeically considering how much he plays at being "just another blue-collar guy" and not an elite (and yet to be trusted with guns). Does anyone know if he happens to own a badass shotgun collection? Aside from being "neat to know," it would be yet another example of a "purist" politician with a deeply conflicted worldview.

    TCB
     
  25. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    he should go hunting with Dick Cheney.
     
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