Biden to target 'ghost guns,' stabilizing braces in new gun control actions

[Aim1]

Looks like 'ghost guns', pistol 'braces', and background checks will be the 1st part of Biden's executive orders on guns tomorrow.




https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-actions-gun-violence

 

[Robert]

If we want to discuss constructive ways to combat this that would be fine. If we want to wave around partisan politics and off topic noise, then I'll just lock it and we can be done.

 

[Aim1]

If we want to discuss constructive ways to combat this that would be fine. If we want to wave around partisan politics and off topic noise, then I'll just lock it and we can be done.

People need to email and contact their states representatives and senators.

 

[DustyGmt]

How about proposing stiffer penalties for those who misuse guns in the first place. If you're convicted felon and get caught with a gun, home manufactured or otherwise, face a stiff penalty? Make the people who are prohibited from using them in the first place accountable, not every gun owner who isn't bringing harm to others.

What did it mean where it said he would give the ATF 60 days to provide a "separate" ruling on pistol braces?

 

[bersaguy]

Definitely start emailing your reps.....

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

How about proposing stiffer penalties for those who misuse guns in the first place.

We've already got those laws.

If you're convicted felon and get caught with a gun, home manufactured or otherwise, face a stiff penalty?

Yep, got those laws on the books too.

Make the people who are prohibited from using them in the first place accountable

Check, three for three with laws covering that stuff.

not every gun owner who isn't bringing harm to others

Now in this area, we do have room for more laws.
My State will likely enact a new 'gun safety' law that will require me to place a gun lock on every firearm already in my safe.
Just another example of 'common sense' gun laws.

JT

 

[shoobe01]

... What did it mean where it said he would give the ATF 60 days to provide a "separate" ruling on pistol braces?

Presumably it means he's not just deciding but telling ATF to look at this, with a strong direction to view them as a loophole, stop it, but instead of relying on an EO is letting the normal ATF rulemaking proceed as it normally does. I believe they will then have the public comment period and everything, so it may be interpreted other than Total Ban still and everyone suddenly has pistols or is gonna file more Form 1s.

Insofar as regulation goes, rule-making processes are better than rule-by-EO.

 

[castile]

What could he do to on ghost guns? If they are not a firearm how can ATF regulate them?

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'd really like to see a more formal ruling. The whole "arm brace" thing has been a soup sandwich for at least five years with it flipping back and forth between "not okay to shoulder" to "okay to occasionally/incidentally shoulder" to "maybe just do what you want?" with it. It's pretty hard to make a case that something like the SBA3 isn't a stock, and every video I've ever seen of them in use it's been shouldered like one.

 

[DustyGmt]

I'd really like to see a more formal ruling. The whole "arm brace" thing has been a soup sandwich for at least five years with it flipping back and forth between "not okay to shoulder" to "okay to occasionally/incidentally shoulder" to "maybe just do what you want?" with it. It's pretty hard to make a case that something like the SBA3 isn't a stock, and every video I've ever seen of them in use it's been shouldered like one.

But it is designed as a brace, intended to be used as a brace and functions as a brace whereas a stock is not.

 

[Hartkopf]

Serious question. If the person issuing the order telling us how to safely lock up every gun we own in a certain manner, is the same person recommending unsafe and generally terrible shotgun advice in dealing with trouble outside of your home, can his order carry any weight at all? He had been recorded showing his ignorance on the subject, how effectively can this be used against him?

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

advice in dealing with trouble outside of your home, can his order carry any weight at all? He had been recorded showing his ignorance on the subject, how effectively can this be used against him?

Yea how am I suppose to fire two blasts into the air on my back porch if my shotgun is locked up in the safe?

 

[DustyGmt]

We've already got those laws.



Yep, got those laws on the books too.



Check, three for three with laws covering that stuff.



Now in this area, we do have room for more laws.
My State will likely enact a new 'gun safety' law that will require me to place a gun lock on every firearm already in my safe.
Just another example of 'common sense' gun laws.

JT

Yeah I know. I'm saying "enforce them" or amend them with mandatory punishments to maybe deter. I'm still convinced the government does very lil to nothing to deter anything. Law abiding people follow laws, criminals pay no mind to them. Lots of them probably don't even think twice about the law. Complete disregard.

I'm probably not the only one a lil tired of them constantly framing things up like we are always taking advantage of some "loophole". Just taking advantage of individual freedoms within the bounds of the law, no loopholes. If anybody is guilty of egregiously taking advantage of "loopholes" it's, well. You know who it is.

 

[Hartkopf]

Yea how am I suppose to fire two blasts into the air on my back porch if my shotgun is locked up in the safe?

AND quickly unlock the ammo which is stored in a separate safe. I’m just guessing at what silliness will come but nothing will surprise me.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

I'm probably not the only one a lil tired of them constantly framing things up like we are always taking advantage of some "loophole". Just taking advantage of individual freedoms within the bounds of the law, no loopholes. If anybody is guilty of egregiously taking advantage of "loopholes" it's, well. You know who it is.

"Some people abuse freedoms"
Freedoms can't be abused. I think the word they're looking for is "breaking the established law"

 

[shoobe01]

What could he do to on ghost guns? If they are not a firearm how can ATF regulate them?

How are they not a firearm? If you mean the pre-made kits sure, but once done: gun. Goes bang. Just because not subject as yet to the NFA or GCA doesn't mean not a gun. In fact, federal law prohibits felons (and misdemeanor DV convicts) from owning firearms of any sort, including home-made ones; they are legally guns.

Similarly, if you make a suppressor or a machine gun, doesn't matter if it's from a block of metal at home and for personal use so you don't fill out the proper paperwork. Violation and federal prison.

Random thoughts:

• Ghost Gun is a loaded word to make home made gun (or craft made or for personal use or whatever proper term we want) sound scary.
• "80%" is just us talking, not an ATF designation, ruling, open letter, or anything (that I am aware of). They could formalize what makes a gun a gun. It could be a LOT less of a gun all of a sudden.
• They could decide that the kits to do this are intent or whatever let them get rid of stuff like the two adjacent tables at the gun show that let you, together, make a lightning link.
• They could change the rules on home-made guns. So far there are a few localities (and one state at least) that require marking, registration, and so on for them. It would not seem a super longshot to require the same at the federal level.

Much of this could make interesting court cases, but that's a ways off.

Everyone, please correct anything I got flatly wrong!

 

[old lady new shooter]

I'd really like to see a more formal ruling. The whole "arm brace" thing has been a soup sandwich for at least five years with it flipping back and forth between "not okay to shoulder" to "okay to occasionally/incidentally shoulder" to "maybe just do what you want?" with it. It's pretty hard to make a case that something like the SBA3 isn't a stock, and every video I've ever seen of them in use it's been shouldered like one.

I've seen a number of videos where the braces are used as braces.

 

[old lady new shooter]

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Get with your state citizens defense league to get legislation passed making your state a Second Amendment sanctuary state. Then any federal rule, law or regulation that doesn't match your state law is prohibited from being enforced, financed, or cooperated with. Texas and now Arizona and I think some other states have already done this.

 

[JONWILL]

How are they not a firearm? If you mean the pre-made kits sure, but once done: gun. Goes bang. Just because not subject as yet to the NFA or GCA doesn't mean not a gun. In fact, federal law prohibits felons (and misdemeanor DV convicts) from owning firearms of any sort, including home-made ones; they are legally guns.

Similarly, if you make a suppressor or a machine gun, doesn't matter if it's from a block of metal at home and for personal use so you don't fill out the proper paperwork. Violation and federal prison.

Random thoughts:

• Ghost Gun is a loaded word to make home made gun (or craft made or for personal use or whatever proper term we want) sound scary.
• "80%" is just us talking, not an ATF designation, ruling, open letter, or anything (that I am aware of). They could formalize what makes a gun a gun. It could be a LOT less of a gun all of a sudden.
• They could decide that the kits to do this are intent or whatever let them get rid of stuff like the two adjacent tables at the gun show that let you, together, make a lightning link.
• They could change the rules on home-made guns. So far there are a few localities (and one state at least) that require marking, registration, and so on for them. It would not seem a super longshot to require the same at the federal level.

Much of this could make interesting court cases, but that's a ways off.

Everyone, please correct anything I got flatly wrong!

The P80 kits were approved by the ATF as legal. The problem is that it is a ruling. They will just change their mind and make them illegal.
as far as parts go there was legislation in California that didn’t specify parts. They use the term precursor. That is scary because it would include any firearm part

 

[shoobe01]

1) Did miss (forget?) that there was a letter for 80% kits. https://www.polymer80.com/CMS-Images/ATF-DetLetters.pdf
2) Agree. Not law or case law. Can change almost on whim.
3) Yes, good word to remember.

 

[AlexanderA]

I'm waiting to see the specifics, but at the moment this looks like a bunch of "vaporware." For example, they want to disqualify people convicted of domestic violence. Guess what? That's already the law. As for "ghost guns," either something is a gun or it is not. It gets ridiculous when you require serialization of blocks of bare metal.

 

[giggitygiggity]

My question is when are shirts, pants, and shoes going to be banned since the Colorado shooter was wearing those at the time of the shooting? “News” (cough... media propaganda... cough) sources are reporting that EO action on braces is stemming, at least in part, due to the shooter having allegedly had a braced firearm. By that logic, anything that the shooter used or had on him that day should be considered for banning/regulation. Also, are we going to see a ban or further regulation on vehicles since a vehicle was used as a weapon at the Capitol? It would seem that banning/regulating a vehicle would be feasible and within the purview of an EO since the Constitution does not explicitly afford people any kind of protections/guarantees with respect to vehicles as it does “arms” in the 2A.

I already know the answers.

Also, I’ve said it before but the Disabled American Veterans organization should file suit for discrimination against disabled veterans if a brace ban/regulation comes to fruition as the intent of braces was to enable a disabled veteran to use a firearm.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Yeah I know. I'm saying "enforce them" or amend them with mandatory punishments to maybe deter

I know you know.

As to enforcement with mandatory sentencing.

Proposals by the current administration such as reducing or eliminating ( I believe the '10 years for using a gun' is a Federal law)
mandatory sentencing to correct social inequities through Federal criminal justice reform legislation
might be at odds with such enforcement.

JT

 

[old lady new shooter]

My question is when are shirts, pants, and shoes going to be banned since the Colorado shooter was wearing those at the time of the shooting? “News” (cough... media propaganda... cough) sources are reporting that EO action on braces is stemming, at least in part, due to the shooter having allegedly had a braced firearm. By that logic, anything that the shooter used or had on him that day should be considered for banning/regulation. Also, are we going to see a ban or further regulation on vehicles since a vehicle was used as a weapon at the Capitol? It would seem that banning/regulating a vehicle would be feasible and within the purview of an EO since the Constitution does not explicitly afford people any kind of protections/guarantees with respect to vehicles as it does “arms” in the 2A.

I already know the answers.

Also, I’ve said it before but the Disabled American Veterans organization should file suit for discrimination against disabled veterans if a brace ban/regulation comes to fruition as the intent of braces was to enable a disabled veteran to use a firearm.

The Second Amendment Foundation nicely killed the most recent ATF letter on braces using exactly that argument.

 

[gyp_c2]

We should already be contacting our reps.
Raise yer' hand if you did NOT SEE THIS COMING NOV.4th of last year!?
The chance of continuing assaults on our freedoms is 100%.
Any questions?
We'll know more in a lil' while.
There are some states that have a chance of trying for representative changes.
Those with 100% Dems in charge are SOL except for local elections.
Work there until there's an opening or opportunity elsewhere.
For now. Standby for the wording of the announcement.
Best I got. If you don't need the stim $, invest in one of the functioning advocacy groups.