Biden to target 'ghost guns,' stabilizing braces in new gun control actions

[CapnMac]

and the benefit to society is?

A society obedient to its politicians. QED.
"Crime" is just a red herring waved around to distract both pro and anti--it's about control.
And, remember, this is theater, the political class has to be seen to be "doing something" even if only smoke and mirrors.

A clear set of Scotus decisions for gun rights is the only solution.

This appears to be hammer upon the nail.

Is that 80% kits or braced pistols that he was citing?

That doubt, the smoke and mirrors, the obvious flaws in the arguments, keep suggesting this is theater.
The question then ought become: "Why do they want law-abiding gun owners in an uproar?"
Perhaps the thinking is that we will--as in previous times--over-react, and they can gloat "Look at all the dumb gun owners, they are dum-dums!" (or some similarly witty retort from the humorless woke).

We, our community, must take great care to stay united, no matter how "niche" our personal interests are. Becoming divided, being weakened, serves the interests of the antis.

Which, to my mind at least, mean we cannot get lost in the weeds of "how fast can you build out a [kit]" or the like.

I'm tired of the political class wanting to play me like a cat with a laser pointer. Show me a real mouse, or leave me alone. Do not mess with the rest of my pride, or be treated like a hyena after the cubs.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

That doubt, the smoke and mirrors, the obvious flaws in the arguments, keep suggesting this is theater.

I was referring to statement's made by GEM's friend the agent, not President Biden. Beyond that I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing it out.

 

[DustyGmt]

We, our community, must take great care to stay united, no matter how "niche" our personal interests are. Becoming divided, being weakened, serves the interests of the antis. .

Agreed. I've seen these types of divisive tactics pursued by anti's. Our governor used it and others looking to drive a wedge in times past like to lean on the old "and most gun owners agree, no sane, lawful person needs a gun capable of holding more than 5rds of ammunition for any hunting, sporting or defensive purposes".

In an attempt to appeal to the hunting or the "if you can't get it done with 6" crowd.

 

[Sistema1927]

Anyone who believes that anything that Joe Biden proposed today will stop any criminal is delusional at best or an idiot at worst. Smoke and mirrors that might make some people "feel" better but do nothing to attack the root causes of violence.

The way that things are going, with the addition of more and more useless laws and regulations, we are going to end up with an "Irish Democracy" where people don't even bother to obey the laws anymore. For example, if owning a pistol brace is going to give you 10 years in the pokey and a $20K fine, why not just go whole hog and make an unregistered full auto weapon? If the gun banners think that milling out an 80% lower is a trivial exercise, they have no clue about the ease of some full auto conversions.

 

[Pat Riot]

Which has nothing to do with Biden's announcement today of his Executive Actions, not Executive Orders. He simply gave another campaign speech.

I didn’t realize you were “script supervisor” on this site...
Several media outlets stated Biden was going to make “Executive Orders” regarding gun control, hence my post.

 

[Insignificant bill]

So if they declare the braces of a certain type make a SBR, you register it or take off the brace and throw it away. It becomes useless. Let's skip the politics about controlling us and focus on the actual situation.

To focus, which is hard - the idea was to avoid NICS with the kits. Do you think NICS should exist all together or anyone without the 4473 questions should be able to buy a gun at a store? That's the real issue.

That is the actual situation. That is why trying to argue sense to pols is a losing argument.

 

[pairof44sp]

Looks like 'ghost guns', pistol 'braces', and background checks will be the 1st part of Biden's executive orders on guns tomorrow.




https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-actions-gun-violence




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Is there a thread on here that explains what a ghost gun is?

Is it like a zip gun? Some prison thing? or some kind of new Glock?

I don’t want to have to wade thru a bunch of contentious garbage on the internet, just to find out.

 

[gyp_c2]

We, our community, must take great care to stay united, no matter how "niche" our personal interests are. Becoming divided, being weakened, serves the interests of the antis.

YES!
They drove an invisible wedge between gun owners once before. Don't get into the minute details and start pointing out all they've left out. Good this bad that.
That's their game.

FOCUS.

 

[dogtown tom]

I didn’t realize you were “script supervisor” on this site...
Several media outlets stated Biden was going to make “Executive Orders” regarding gun control, hence my post.

Of course they said that, your average guy or reporter doesn't know the difference. That doesn't make them correct.
You posted about Executive Orders, which clearly they were not. Hence my post.

 

[Pudge]

I simply want to point out the nuances in the arguments beyond the cliches. If you are OK with NICS, then serializing the frames or having a NICS check for the kits is OK with you. If not, then no restrictions for anyone - not just Ward Cleaver buying the Beaver his deer rifle but anyone.

The idea that you either support NICS on every transfer or none is preposterous. PA requires a check on every handgun, but not individual sales of long guns. If I support that system I am not rejecting checks in every case. And every individual sale of a long gun in PA creates a ghost gun, and since any long gun could have been sold... But if I don't support banning 80% lowers...

 

[Pat Riot]

Of course they said that, your average guy or reporter doesn't know the difference. That doesn't make them correct.
You posted about Executive Orders, which clearly they were not. Hence my post.

You can have the last word. I really don’t care.

 

[DustyGmt]

The idea that you either support NICS on every transfer or none is preposterous. PA requires a check on every handgun, but not individual sales of long guns. If I support that system I am not rejecting checks in every case. And every individual sale of a long gun in PA creates a ghost gun, and since any long gun could have been sold... But if I don't support banning 80% lowers...

Agree. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm opposed to NICS, but I don't think the government needs to be involved in every single transaction or every home build. They don't need to micromanage and put a stranglehold on every nut and bolt and be all up in everybody's business.

It should be pretty simple. If you are not a prohibited person, you're in the clear and don't need the hassle. If you are, you've broken a law to which you should be accountable. The idea that if you're interested in an 80% kit you're either taking a position standing for or are opposed to an initial check on the first point of sale on typical retail firearms, it's hard for me to get there.

 

[castile]

No there was no issue fitting my Poly 80. I purchased the whole kit minus the slide and barrel. And bought a Glock 19 slide and barrel. Took me around 30 min with a dremel and a drill and a file with a bit of sand paper. Took mine to the range it its been flawless. Never jammed or did anything but work. Reminds me of when the dip whit got on YouTube and said no one but machinist can build an AR. Don't buy into it you can't do it. LMAO I wish I could remember that idiots name. I think he pulled the video because people were slamming him for being such a dolt.

 

[castile]

Its not about how long it takes its that there is no serial no that is the biggest issue with the grabbers. I have built two of the AR 80s and those take me about two to three hours. I want to try an AR10. I don't think it will be much different at all.

 

[dogtown tom]

Its not about how long it takes its that there is no serial no that is the biggest issue with the grabbers. I have built two of the AR 80s and those take me about two to three hours. I want to try an AR10. I don't think it will be much different at all.

I agree.
Too many people form their opinions about gun from TV and the movies.....and we know how many crimes are solved by gun traces there.
I believe the sole purpose isnt to connect a particular gun to the criminal, but to tie it to the dealer that transferred it.....ATF using that as a means of revoking an FFL.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Is there a thread on here that explains what a ghost gun is?

Is it like a zip gun? Some prison thing? or some kind of new Glock?

I don’t want to have to wade thru a bunch of contentious garbage on the internet, just to find out.

A "ghost gun" is the antis' name for when a person buys or makes components and assembles them into a firearm. Antis call it a ghost gun because it doesn't have a serial number like a firearm sold as a firearm by the manufacturer.

 

[kwguy]

This distinction only matters in states that ban private sales. Here in KY if I want a paperless gun I can just buy it at the flea market. In a mandatory background check state the 80% kits are a significant workaround to the law.

To that end, so are blocks of aluminum and tools. The industry coined the term “80%” because it sounded cool. Now they’ll use that term against us.

 

[DoubleMag]

so little to do to make them full on a gun its crazy. I have seen people build them at gun shows in less than 20 min. with only a dremel and drill.

Yes, ANY person who has done something repeatedly can do it faster. That's the primary reason we hired the living room painting out. Woosh! DONE and right quick. FYI to the casual reader, there are LOTS of personal accounts where ppl attempted this dremel tool thingie, and FAILED; further DESTROYING the original article. Both poly ''GLocks'' and metal ''AR-15s'' Just having the article in one hand and hand tools or more elaborate jig fixtures is NOT a guarantee of success, AT ANY SKILL LEVEL. Today at Tools Shops around the Country, there will be just how much scrap metal from a failed milling and subsequent Foremen yelling and breaking pencils? How many spilled paint buckets? Burned hamburgers into the trash?

And, on & on.

Anyone who believes that anything that Joe Biden proposed today will stop any criminal is delusional at best or an idiot at worst. Smoke and mirrors that might make some people "feel" better but do nothing to attack the root causes of violence.


The way that things are going, with the addition of more and more useless laws and regulations, we are going to end up with an "Irish Democracy" where people don't even bother to obey the laws anymore. For example, if owning a pistol brace is going to give you 10 years in the pokey and a $20K fine, why not just go whole hog and make an unregistered full auto weapon? If the gun banners think that milling out an 80% lower is a trivial exercise, they have no clue about the ease of some full auto conversions.

To your 1st section I reply, I disagree at least in a little part. They are using the last several incidents to speartip these regs; they will no doubt ''show case'' i.e. 2, 3, 4...10, whereas it allegedly will have worked. But IMHO STILL not enough for any type of industry wide infringement. How many times have we actually heard the News interviewing the politician, ''if it saves one life'' ??

And to the last section ''way things are going'' again I agree and sadly I have heard it around local groups (coffee shop talk NOT FBook). This thinking is a counterproductive ''solution'' in the mind of that/ those person(s), in that, while looking for a solution, DOES NOT ADDRESS THE ORIGINAL problem. That being, the infringing new regulation. BEST ADVICE is no ''loopholes in thinking'' to stop doing WHAT IS TIME PROVEN--- contact your elected Reps, local, state, federal via phone , writing a physical letter with postage stamp, email. And may I respectfully suggest , in that order

It's not a workaround, it's not a loophole, its a legal means to build, own or possess a firearm.

....and, LEST WE FORGET...our AMERICAN HERITAGE. This whole idea of making your own 2A implement (or add on i.e. stock) has been happening in N America for going on 400 YEARS.

REMEMBER, if you spend a half hour on this and other forums and did NOT contact your electeds, the reality is YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING to protect the cause of 2A, save ''feeling better''

Thank you for your time, have a nice weekend!

 

[castile]

I don't buy your line Double. I built two AR15s from 80s and it takes more time to those by far than the Poly 80 and more tools. A drill press is helpful but not needed and a good router. I did not use a drill press on my two even though I had one. The Poly 80 I had never built one before and it took me all of about 30 min. Unless you are a total idiot with tools its about as easy a build as one can find. IMO it would be hard to screw it up unless you are a real dolt with tools. And I did mine with a dremel and file and sand paper and drill. IMO it was easier by far to do than take down and put back together my Mk2 Ruger pistol.

 

[pairof44sp]

A "ghost gun" is the antis' name for when a person buys or makes components and assembles them into a firearm. Antis call it a ghost gun because it doesn't have a serial number like a firearm sold as a firearm by the manufacturer.

I still don’t get it. Isn’t there some component that still always gets the serial number?

Or you mean that people are just machining these things from scratch like they’re living in Pakistan?

 

[castile]

If someone has the Computer machining lathe and program they can make an AR from a billet but the 80s are all done but the fire control pocket and a few small drill holes. Nothing has to have a serial no on these guns unless you life in California or NY. Ghost gun just means there is no way to trace it back to a particular manufacture or a chain of ownership. Making an AR is not super fast from an 80 kit but its not real hard and its kind of fun. I would say if you go slow you can pop one out in about 3 to 4 hours. My first one I did a step by step watch the video stop the video monkey see monkey do.

 

[pairof44sp]

Thank you for the info.

You know, in 20 years of investigations, I never saw a murder case that was cracked by working with a firearms serial number.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

I still don’t get it. Isn’t there some component that still always gets the serial number?

Or you mean that people are just machining these things from scratch like they’re living in Pakistan?

None of those kids used for "ghost guns" come with a serial number attached.

This is because current federal law allows you to make a firearm without a serial number if it's for personal use only

 

[Spats McGee]

Is there a thread on here that explains what a ghost gun is?.....

I see that the term has already been explained. FWIW, the phrase first came to my attention because of Kevin de Leon, a California Senator:

....False accusations of abuse among ex-spouses or during divorce proceedings are not uncommon....

I nominate @TomJ for The Understatement of The Day award.

 

[castile]

And that gun once made is tattooed to your rear end. You can not sell it or give it away unless you do put a serial no on it and register it with ATF.