Big boys .458 SOCOM Monster vs the Beowulf

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The Sig 556 platform looks very promising. It doesn't have the manufacturing hurdles that I ran into with the AK and Mini-14 conversions. Specifically, the 556 gas block and front sight/gas assembly can accomodate a barrel up to .850" in diameter whereas the AK and Mini (at the time) cannot. Its not a big deal to make a few hundred custom gas blocks and front sight towers.....but it's a major problem when you only need a handful to get the product line launched with such low demand.

The barrel on the 556 simply screws into the receiver and the bolt locks up in the receiver, not into a barrel extension. If Sig had used a barrel extension, I seriously doubt they would ever sell you one. The barrel root also has no extractor cut in it, further simplifying the project. There are no flats cut in the barrel (like an AK) or any other goofy stuff.....just a 100% lathe operation.

The only draw back to the Sig, is cheap bolt availablility like an AR. So, your existing bolt would need to be modified and preclude switching it back to .223 at a later date.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp
 
I have a 458 socom upper. I chose it over the 50 caliber uppers available for one reason; it uses rifle bullets instead of pistol bullets. The higher BC of the +400 grain 45 cal makes a difference past 100 yards. I use a cut down spring and empty buffer to enable the light 535 grain loads to cycle properly when using WC820 powder.

I use 405 grain jacketed and 535 grain cast bullets loaded to 1050 fps. I made a silencer on an ATF form 1. The silencer is 1.75x12 inches and extends 8 inches past the muzzle. Unfortunately is it the loudest suppressed rifle in my collection due to the large bore required for the 45 cal bullets and the normal AR-15 action noise. I think it is hearing safe without plugs as long as I shoot it out in the open and not under weather protection. It is still a hoot to shoot though, especially metal targets at 200 yards.

458socom-1.jpg

Ranb
 
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Very nice Ranb.

I agree that in this particular application I think the .458's SD and the fact that it uses rifle bullets makes it the better choice,at least for me,at this time.Extending range past that of the .50 to my mind.The .458 has plenty of meplet for crushing damage too...Tho' saying you have a .50cal. would be fun.:D I simply see more diversity with the .458 SOCOM as opposed to the .50Beowolf and the .450Bushmaster.Cool as they are if I had all three:evil:,I would more than likely grab the .458 SOCOM more often than not.

What say others?
 
Regarding the original post and 458 SOCOM ammo, I think Corbon only claims 1900 FPS for 300 grain ammo and I know they claim 1600 FPS for 405 grain.
 
I don't think there will be room in the market long term for all three calibers. It will be interesting to see who survives. Th .450 has the huge bushmaster company producing rifles and hornady producing ammo which is two big advantages in the market place although it is probably the worst in so far as ready supply of boolits to reloaders. The 50 beowulf has a bigger diameter and as far as I know the lowest working pressures which are easier on the shoulder but alexander arms has to make everything for it here your bullet choices are pretty solid but a little expensive, that is any bullets made for the .50 ae. The .458 has the great advantage of being .458 which is ideal since all cartridges are trying to replicate .45-70 ballistics and .458 is the .45-70's true caliber. Unfortunately little corbon makes the only expensive ammo and the great rra making uppers. I personally would not buy one a .45-70 marlin is all the .45-70 I want and it will always be around, but the heavy ar cartridges are interesting and you have to wonder which one will pull away.
 
I would do bad things for that suppressed Tromix .458 SOCOM AR (almost as bad as what I would do for the suppressed S12 he made, I truly LUST after that thing).

The big bore sig sounds very interesting and really cool. I'll repeat for those that may not be familar with Mr. Rumore's work that anything he makes will be a fantastic product second to none. He has a unimpeachable reputation for not only building terrific products but for taking care of his customers. One really cannot go wrong buying a Tromix. I have to keep my eye on the prize and keep saving my pennies so if Tromix ever reopens its waiting list I can get the gun I want more than all others, a Tromix SBS.

Mr. Rumore I seam to recall that I read something you wrote discussing the advantages of the .458 vis a vis the beowolf but I don't remeber where and I'm hoping that I'm not remebering incorrectly that it was you. I (and likely others) would really appreciate if you could share your thoughts on the various big bore AR calibers and or the platforms available for them.
 
I had two 450 BMs and sold them both, and now have a 458 SOCOM.

The 450 BM is a very nice cartridge. However the exterior dimensions are very poorly matched to the AR magazine. It is just barely larger in diameter than the gap between the lips of an AR mag. This causes the mag lips to flex and spread outward, different amounts depending on how many cartridges are currently in the magzine. No round rest at the same elevation and feed angle in the magazine as the previous round.

I was quite surprised that such poor engineering (if there was any) would make it into a production firearm. I would never consider relying on such a gun for defense use.

I would not consider a 450 BM again unless a purpose built magazine was available that would hold each round in a consistant orientation.

The 458 SOCOM fits the AR mag much better as the bottle neck case has an appropriate taper to match the mag curve, and the cartridge diameter gets it substantially under the feedlips without the flexing and spreading problem.

Of course the down side is ammo / brass in very expensive.
 
Tony, can you tell us more about the .458 SOCOM Mini-14 you made? Was it based around the Mini-30 for the bolt face?
 
I don't know if I ever posted any comparisons between the three big bores......probably not.

The bottom line is that all three will get the job done.

The Beowulf of course has a larger diameter bullet, but with that comes less sectional density (the bullet is short and fat) so your penetration capability will be less than that of the smaller diameter .458 SOCOM running a longer bullet. Back in 2001 there weren't many 50 caliber bullets to choose from (50AE only) but now with the 500 S&W there is a better selection so the bullet availability argument is pretty much a thing of the past.

The Beuwolf also suffers from a severely rebated rim that can cause some problems. One is bolt over ride, whereas the bolt misses the rim of the cartridge when using some magazines. The other is a complete case collapse around the case head when the pressure is driven up. If you run the pressure up, the case will fold back over the case head. The same problem occurs with the 501 Thunder Sabre case. Neither of these issues show up with the SOCOM. The other problem is the Beuwolf's nose will strike the front leading edge of the GI magazine when feeding out and again does not present a problem with the SOCOM's bottle neck case.

The Bushmaster is really not a great idea in the AR, since the case diameter is smaller, it doesn't want to feed well, single stacked in a GI magazine. You have two choices when feeding through a magazine. You can either single stack them or you can double stack them. You can't stack-and-a-half them.......very well. Also, pushing pistol bullets to rifle velocity usually does not work very well either. You would really need to shoot specially built .451" rifle bullets for best performance. Of which there are very few of.

When Marty ter Weeme and I were first discussing the big bore project, we were discussing simply using a lengthened 50AE case necked to .458. We considered using both the 7.62x39 rim and the .308 size rim, but went with the .308 to prevent possible bolt over ride issues, case collapse issues, and allow it to be easily adapted to bolt action rifles. All of the initial cases that came from Starline were straight walled, so we already had a 50 SOCOM if you will. I considered getting a reamer made for the 50, but the .458 just seemed like a lot better idea, so the 50 version was scrapped. I still have several thousand 50 SOCOM cases left over, so it could still be done without much trouble.

Bottom line though.....if you use the right bullets, magazines, and keep the pressures sane, you won't have any problems with either of the three rounds. In my opinion (whatever that is worth) the .458 SOCOM is "Technically" the best design of the three, but in actual application, they are all about the same.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp
 
Here's a pic of the mini-14 converted to .458 SOCOM. The biggest problem was trying to open up the gas block to handle the larger diameter barrel. I had no good way to do it and ended up just grinding it out by hand. It looked like crap when I was done, but you couldn't see it. Then I had no front sight for the gun. I made one that was at the end of the barrel, then made another one that went on the gas block.....both looked like crap. Then I got pissed off and just stuck the one you see there on the gun and quit. I had spent about 3 days on a project that should have only taken three hours and when I was done, the gun looked all cobbled up. That's why I never post this pic. It looks like some hack did it in his garage.

Mega14A.jpg
 
I finished building the Sig 556 receiver holding fixture last night, and just pulled the .223 barrel off of it. I should have the new .458 barrel machined and installed by the end of the day.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp
 
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