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Big Trouble... DPMS LR-308 Jammed .. Stuck .. HELP

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Evergreen, Oct 11, 2009.

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  1. Evergreen

    Evergreen Member

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    I was at the range today and I am relatively new with shooting AR guns. I am out in the desert right now in Central Oregon. Yesterday , I was at the range and I and another more person experienced shooter examined the bolt and he said it looked like it had too much lube. Today, I was out shooting and I noticed my LR-308 had some issues and was not feeding right. I was using the NATO Portuguese .308 mil-surplus ammo in brass case. It , supposedly is some of the best mil-surplus you can buy. Well, it seemed that after I shot 10 rounds that day, around the 11th or so, it was starting to have feeding problems. I had to force out the rounds by pulling the charging handle with some force and after examining the rounds, it appeared they were chewed up and you could see some of the metal shaving from the brass case or the bullet, itself.

    Well, after a few times of this, I was shooting again and shot another few rounds with no problem. By the fourth shot or so I pulled the trigger and nothign happened. I tried extracting the round, but the charging handle was jammed. I removed the upper and tried forcing out the bolt, but to no avail.
    I had another person who was more experienced than I try to look at it and he said he would rather not try to force it with a crowbar because it may damage it. He said to bring it to a gunsmith.

    I am going nuts right now and filled with grief. I invested over $3500 into this gun, including the gun, mount, scope. This was my prized long range shooting rifle. I feel a lot of hurt that this happened. The one thing the guy told me was the bolt was very dry and that he suspected it may have something to do with it, but was not sure. I have a hard time believing a dry bolt could cause such a jam after just 15 rounds.

    What I like to know is what people think the problem is? Does anyone think the gun itself has a problem, perhaps a factory lemon? Do you think something got stuck because the bolt was running dry? Remember I fired only 15 rounds out of it that day. Perhaps, it was the Portuguese .308 NATO mil-surplus ammo?

    I am really perplexed and will be bringing it to a gun smith tomorrow. Iam in Bend/Redmond area, any suggestions for a good gunsmith?

    Thanks for the help.. Hope I don't have to lose this gun or send it back to DPMS. :banghead:
     
  2. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Here is what you do.

    1. If it has an adjustable stock adjust it to the lowest or smallest positition

    2. Pull on the charging handle

    3. Paying attention to the muzzle location SLAM the butt of the rifle on a firm surface such as wood but beware of concrete.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  3. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    It may run counter to what you believe but real mags is spot on.
     
  4. Evergreen

    Evergreen Member

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    Is there any risk of the round going off ? There is a live round inside , either the chamber or, even worse, a bullet stuck in the barrel. I am thinking its a stuck round. Also, I have the upper and lower detached. Do I need to try this exercise with the gun fully attached? I was a bit nervous to attach the gun, with the fear the hammer of the lower might set of the stuck round in the upper. Tell me , what you think.. I would love to try anything that works and that I know is safe.
     
  5. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Yes you must fully assemble the rifle, as for the live round that is why you must follow strict muzzle control. I have done this drill before with a live round without the round firing, generally this malfunction is from a failure to go in battery associated with bad ammo.
     
  6. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Man that stinks - hope you get it fixed for good. Take it to a 'smith who has experience with AR types if the above advice does not work.
     
  7. Evergreen

    Evergreen Member

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    I will go ahead and try the protocal that Mags suggested. I am just wondering, does anyone think I caused any permanent damage to my gun? I would be heartbroken if I did and like to get repaired whatever damage I caused. Please tell me what you think. If the round is extracted, should I take it to a gunsmith for examination or woudl it be safe to shoot again?


    I was just reading on another site that a DPMS LR-308 is a match type gun and that it doesn't handle surplus ammo well and that it must be kept quite wet with the lube. I suppose I had it running real real dry and used the NATO 7.62 x 51mm rounds. Does anyone think this could have been the culprit? Shouldn't I be able to shoot NATO ammo out of any .308 gun?
     
  8. Mags

    Mags Member

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    What does the markings say on your mag well, mine says 7.62, that will be your answer for ammo type. I just think you used poor quality ammo.
     
  9. SammyIamToday

    SammyIamToday Member

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    I have the SASS and AP4 models. From the sound of it you have the 24inch stainless rifle. It is a precision rifle, so it's not really very forgiving for junk ammo.


    Keep the BCG's rather wet with lube. That helps a lot. At first they are really tight, so the break-in takes a while. AP4 was noticeable more loose than the SASS for what that's worth.

    Also, don't use surplus ammo in them. The manual tells you not to. I imagine some surplus might work well, but when you spend that much on a rifle, you might as well feed it decent stuff.
     
  10. Evergreen

    Evergreen Member

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    Just an update. Unfortunately , I don't think Mags advice will work. The bolt is kinda stuck and the charging handle is very stuck and the bolt extends to a point where I can no longer attach the upper to the lower assembly.

    Does anyone have any other ideas how I can safely extract this round or should I send it to the gunsmith? I was afraid there might be some damage in the gun and was thinking it should go to the gunsmith anyway. Eager to hear suggestions.


    I have learned my lesson about using mil-surplus ammo in my nice guns.. I will sell most of my surplus .308 ammo and use the money it to buy the good stuff. (Yes, I will reload one day, so don't mention that). I didn't know this gun had issues with surplus 7.62 ammo. Also, I will lube the bolt like crazy next time.

    However, I am still stuck and cannot worry about next time when my gun is so very ill. :(
     
  11. Mags

    Mags Member

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    Yup, worse thing you coulda done was dissassemble with a round in the chamber. you will have to go to a smith now. Your malfunction is caused generally by an out of spec case neck. Your bolt is not fully in battery because the round could not fully chamber due normally to case size.
     
  12. Evergreen

    Evergreen Member

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    Ok .. thanks for your assistance... Sometimes we have to learn the hard way in life... I think I will have to do my homework on my .308/7.62 x 51 type of guns..

    Do you think there is any permanent damage to the gun, barrel, chamber, etc that may have been caused by this incident? I do have a few rounds that are partly shaven, I should go post pics of them, but just feel too exhausted. I never seen anything like it. It looks like the rounds were sliced with a knife. I am just hoping I didn't cause any damage that would result in me having to lose the upper assembly of my DPMS LR-308. Let me know what you think.
     
  13. Mags

    Mags Member

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    It really depends on what the smith is going to have to do to get your bolt out. A competent smith should inspect the chamber after he removes the malfunction.
     
  14. FlyinBryan

    FlyinBryan Member

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    i seriously doubt there is any permanent damage to the rifle.

    believe it or not this is a fairly common problem with dirty or oversized ammo, its also possible that the rifle has a tight chamber.

    it is also very common to remedy the problem as described by mags.

    i had 1 ar type rifle (colt match target rifle) that did it so often that i became quite the expert at bouncing the butstock to clear it. i would just hold the handgaurd with my left hand, and hold my right hand on the charging handle, and while depressing the charging handle latch, pogo the thing on the ground, and like mags said, control the muzzle direction when you do it.

    very unlikely that your rifle is damaged.

    if you depress the buffer with your thumb you might be able to get the carrier started into the buffer tube and get it put back together.

    if you can, and can pogo it, it will pop right open.

    ps. it sounds like your chamber might be dirty, and keep the bolt and carrier very very lubed, inside and out.
     
  15. Evergreen

    Evergreen Member

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    I tried to compress the buffer tube and fit the upper to the lower, but I think all I achieved was damaging a small part of my lower receiver. I tried nudging it in there and notice I shaved away some metal or wore away some of the finish on the part of the lower receiver that connects to the upper receiver. I hope that I didn't create a new problem in the attempt to solve anohter. I am going crazy over this :banghead:

    Well, I think I am off to the gunsmith tomorrow.

    How about just thumping the bolt and upper against my hard rubber floor? I have workout mats, which are a bit harder than wood, but softer than concrete? Perhaps, what I just said is too dangerous, I would probably be a bit afraid to try it.

    It doesn't look like there is any way to get the upper and lower together, the bolt extends out too far and I think I have now damaged a piece of my lower receiver trying to connect them. :(
     
  16. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Member

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    Evergreen you should quit messing with it Now. Take the gun to a gunsmith and let him (or her) do their job. You are not going to "get lucky" at this point.
     
  17. Bovice

    Bovice Member

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    yank on the charging handle. don't just put two fingers and tug. give it a YANK.
     
  18. 9mm+

    9mm+ Member

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    As Bill said above, you need to stop NOW. You're at the point that any further corrections could lead to permanent damage. A gunsmith should be able to rectify the issue, unless of course you've damaged the upper or lower assemblies.

    Yes, there are very expensive lessons in life, but hopefully this expense will only be the gunsmith's labor rate and not replacing your LM-308's assemblies. Don't ever use mil-surp ammo in a match-grade rifle. With this shortage dragging on, it's tempting to use sub-grade ammo, but just say no...
     
  19. Evenflo76

    Evenflo76 Member

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    Sorry to hear about your trouble. Please read this article pertaining to how to clean and lube an AR: http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf

    I don't know about the differences in ammo, but it doesn't matter if you are not properly lubing the rifle. Also, understand that a new rifle may require a bit more maintenance until break in.

    After checking DPMS' website, you can see that the only rifle they offer in 7.62 NATO is Sportical, and that all other call for .308 Winchester in their chambers. More here: http://www.303british.com/id36.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  20. Zane

    Zane Member

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    The LR-308C, T, SASS and AP4 are also in 7.62 Nato. The 308, B and L are the only ones in .308.
     
  21. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Be careful & alert!

    Whatever you do, think CLEARLY, and no matter WHAT YOU DO, make sure you are treating this as a LOADED WEAPON, as it is!

    Realize that, at minimum, a round could fire in the direction the muzzle is pointed, and if there happens to be a barrel obstruction, at worst, the gun could blow up.

    I don't want to scare you, but we all want you to be SAFE, keeping the gun pointed in a SAFE DIRECTION AT ALL TIMES!

    If you live in an apartment, or house with others, DO NOT try all of the above items until you are SURE that -- should the gun go off, you will not send a bullet through a wall or ceiling!

    Also, DO NOT place any body part in front of the muzzle! :eek:
     
  22. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Is there a way you can take a close-up photo of the bolt position -- as viewed from the ejector port on the right side?

    You need to first upload the photo to an image-hosting service, then link to the photo from here.
     
  23. Grey Morel

    Grey Morel Member

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    Evergreen: from your description of events it sounds like you tried to disassemble your rifle by unhinging the upper and lower, because you were too afraid to follow Mags advice. Please correct me if I am wrong; this is the assumption I am working under.

    Your problem was likely caused by wrong ammo. Military 7.62x51 is head spaced from the top of the shoulder, whereas commercial 308 head spaces off the bottom of the shoulder. As a result of this, a military chamber is .013" longer than a commercial spec chamber. This means that a NATO rounds can be "in spec" for a military chambers but still be out of spec for commercial chambers.

    Portuguese 7.62, while good ammunition, is likely not the correct type for your rifle.

    I may sound "preachy", but the correct thing to do would have been to remove the magazine from your rifle, and bash the stock HARD on a solid surface, as many time as needed to retract the bolt. All that does is use the inertia of the swing to retract the bolt with more force than you can generate with your hands; the bolt carriage simply retracts and cycles the round out the same way it would if it were firing normally. These rifles are not tinker-toys; the chance of damaging your rifle is very small. I know from experience.

    I have experience with a 5.45x39 AR-15, built with a S&W upper. Apparently the S&W chambers are cut on the tighter side of spec; you can not eject a live round by hand. Steel cased ammo (the only kind available in most places) will wedge in the chamber so tight that once a round is chambered it must be shot in order to remove it, and if you try to pull on the charging handle the bolt retracts just far enough to jam everything to hell, while leaving the cartridge in the chamber. The only way to get the round out at that point is to bash the darn thing on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  24. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Wouldn't......

    Wouldn't a brass rod from a hardware store, carefully hammered from the muzzle end release the cartridge -- especially if someone were pulling on the charge handle at the same time?

    Again, make sure NO BODY PART is in front of the muzzle at all times, including hands, eyes, head, etc.:uhoh:
     
  25. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    Mag's advice is only treating a symptom. it's what you do in the field after you've been rolling around in the mud for weeks and shooting thousands of rounds and your gun is filthy and you get something stuck and need to get your gun up and running fast.


    "mortering' your rifle is NOT something you should have to do to a brand new rifle after firing 10 rounds from the bench.

    something is wrong. try some different ammo. if it happens again, send it back.
     
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