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Bill of Sale????

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by huntinggamo, Oct 14, 2010.

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  1. huntinggamo

    huntinggamo Member

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    about 2 months ago I did my first FTF firearm's transaction here in CO, I since have done several others and i have noticed a trend, nobody like to do bills of sale, when i have purchased firearms i have gotten bills of sale for my insurance policy, when i sell firearms i like to have a bill of sale as CYA because who knows if that guy is planning on murdering someone or if he is not legal to own, ect, i just dont want it backfiring on me. does anyone know why the general dis-like of bills of sale? i get dirty looks and they dont seem to happy when i ask them to sign one....

    Whats up with this?
    Do you get a bill of sale when you do a trans?
    anyone else run into these issues?
     
  2. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    The lack of response should pretty much give you your answer.
     
  3. Black Knight

    Black Knight Member

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    It sounds like you already suspect the reason they don't want a bill of sale. There is nothing wrong with a personal policy of no bill of sale - no gun. If they don't like it tough you'll just sell to someone else who seems to be more reputable. A person who has legitimate plans for the gun should not be afraid of a bill of sale. Be sure your bill of sale has the buyer's name and address on it and that you see proof of residency at a physical address (no P. O. Box). You could have them show you a state issued form of ID with a current physical address as well. Remember you are protecting yourself not them.
     
  4. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Lots of folks want a gun that is not traceable - i.e. no paperwork to link them to something - typically folks who fear a government taking them away under some guise of safety or similar
     
  5. Gord

    Gord Member

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    I will not buy or sell a firearm without a bill of sale, in some shape or form. If the other party doesn't agree, that's their prerogative and I'll move on. Simple as that.

    I just ask that they put down their DL# on my copy of the bill of sale, and I do require them to show me their DL briefly as proof of residency.

    My bills of sale typically go along the lines of:

    Short, sweet and to the point. I have a bill of sale certifying that they're legal to buy, and they have a bill of a sale with a DL# to show the authorities on the off chance that I stole the gun or it was previously used in a crime or something (or vice versa). Cheap CYA for both parties, as far as I'm concerned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  6. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Make sure you get fingerprints and a DNA sample as well. It's way to easy to fake a drivers license.

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Iam2taz

    Iam2taz Member

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    I wouldn't buy or sell a gun with out one. That legal policy works both ways. ;-)
     
  8. swede4198

    swede4198 Member

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    I have done several FTF sale of weapons and never gave or received a bill of sale. I do verify the buyer has a picture ID from my state per the ATF requirement. The last weapon I bought I almost walked away because the seller wrote down my CCW info.

    I am a firm beleiver in the 2nd ammendment. I do not want weapons that can be taken from me because someone wants to collect all traceable firearms. This is what was attempted in NO until people were able to shine a light on those roaches.
     
  9. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    You have to follow state and local law when buying or selling a gun FTF.

    In Texas I swap the money and gun and walk away. I tell the buyer/seller nothing and I ask for nothing. Just last Sunday I bought a S&W pistol from a lady. I haven't clue who she is and she knows nothing about me and that's the way I want it.
    It makes my day when I end the paper trail on a gun.:)

    The anti-gun crowd would love it if we had to continue the paper trail in FTF sales and we would complain if it became a law.


    Exactly what are you CYA from? What's going to backfire on you?
    If you sold/bought the gun legally that's all you have to do.
     
  10. Rusty Shackleford

    Rusty Shackleford Member

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    +1 to swede4198. And ending the paper trail on a gun should be seen as a great thing if you are an honest citizen.

    New Orleans after Katrina is a great example of why it would be nice to have several guns not linked to you. If they don't know you have them, how can they steal them?
     
  11. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    I don't require a bill of sale for sales I make on this website or others. The sale is recorded electronically and I print off the PMs/emails for my records. If the cops want to know who that person is they can track them down themselves.

    Some people seem to think that if you sell a weapon to someone and it is used in a murder that you are going to prison unless you can prove you sold it to someone else. It takes a little more than that to get a conviction for murder. If you are that uncomfortable about selling weapons, keep them. I'm not being snotty, keep your guns, more guns is BETTER. ;)
     
  12. huntinggamo

    huntinggamo Member

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    If I purchase a new gun through an FFL and something happens later on with that gun it gets traced back to me as I am the last one on the paper trail. So having a bill of sale goes to show that I do not have the gun anymore.
     
  13. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    Exactly what do you think will happen when the gun is traced back to you?
    I suspect you don't know what will happen because you have never heard of this happening. Every one talks about it and are afraid of it happening but they don't know what they are trying to cover themselves from.

    So I'll tell you what happens.
    A 45 that I bought from a dealer and later sold FTF ended up used in a killing.
    The city Detectives traced me half way across the US. The conversation went something like this.

    Detective, "A Star 45 that you bought from ***** gun dealer was used in a killing".

    Me, "Wasn't me".

    D, "We didn't think so. We already ran a check on you. We assume you got rid of the gun, so we want to know who you gave it to".

    Me, "Yes, I (legally) got rid of the gun months ago and I have no idea who had it".

    D, "OK, thanks for your time".


    The end.



    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  14. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    People on both sides of the bill of sale issue really get their panties in a wad.

    Its not a legal requirement, nor do I believe there is any legal advantage to them (or legal disadvantage to not using them).

    I don't require it when I sell a gun nor do I expect one when I buy one but if the other party (buying or selling) wants one I don't mind ... whatever makes you comfortable.

    Where I draw the line is at local sellers that want to do the deal through an FFL ... that's just stupid.
     
  15. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine Member

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    As far as I will go when buying a gun FTF is show the seller my carry license but I put my thumb over the name and address.

    This shows them I'm not a criminal and that I am a state resident.
    I can't recall even doing this but once and I've bought a lot of guns FTF.


    As far as a Bill of Sale.
    If I was a criminal I'd gladly give you a BOS and show you all kinds of ID.
    Good luck if you ever have to show this phony paperwork to the Police.:D
     
  16. MileHighMan

    MileHighMan Member

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    I am afraid of buying a stolen gun. Would a receipt with the seller's info protect me?
     
  17. brboyer

    brboyer Member

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    I refuse to give complete strangers any of my personal information, like address, D/L number, phone number, etc.
     
  18. Birdmang

    Birdmang Member

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    In Illinois you have to have a bill of sale and keep it for 10 years.
     
  19. Ole Coot

    Ole Coot Member

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    I have not purchased or sold a firearm in 30yrs, turned in my FFL & paperwork then and don't bother with a bill of sale. If I have bought or sold since I consider it a private transaction between private citizens and nobodies business.
     
  20. okespe04

    okespe04 Member

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    I have used this several times, as a seller I would not do a transaction without one. As a buyer......


    Bill of Sale
    Transfer of Ownership

    For $______ received, I, (seller’s name here):___________________________, have sold to (buyer's name here):____________________________
    One (1) _______________________ firearm description here, Serial #

    _____________________________

    Any other accessories here:

    I represent that this __________________ is not stolen. I am the owner of the _______________ listed above. If it can be shown now or in the future that this ____________________was stolen prior to the date listed below, I will give the buyer a full refund for return of the ______________________ and all accessories listed above.
    Sold as is.
    No warranty is expressed or implied by the Seller.
    Seller assumes no responsibility after transfer of ownership has taken place.
    Seller assumes no responsibility of any/all aftermarket parts added to the ____________.
    Seller assumes no responsibility of any/all original equipment parts on the ___________.
    Buyer assumes all responsibility when transfer of ownership has taken place.

    Seller specifically disclaims any warranties of merchantability or of fitness for a particular purpose of this _______________ and disclaims all responsibility for consequential and/or incidental damages or any other losses arising from the use of said _____________________.
    Buyer agrees to the terms and conditions set forth and listed on this document, and acknowledges that he has received a true copy of this Bill of Sale/Transfer of Ownership and certifies that he is 21 years of age or older. Buyer acknowledges and understands that he will read the Owner’s Manual. Buyer agrees that it will be his responsibility when transfer of ownership has taken place to adjust, check, and follow all instructions as outlined in the Owner’s Manual. Buyer attests that he is able to legally buy and possess firearms.

    Buyer:______________________________________

    Seller: _____________________________________
    Date:_________________________
    Buyer: _____________________________
    Address:____________________________
    Phone #: ____________________________
    Seller: ______________________________
    Address: ____________________________
    Phone #: ____________________________
     
  21. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    There's another good reason not to live in Illinois then :neener:

    Seriously though, I'm not covering my name with my thumb ... I would trust most of my fellow Colorado gun owners with the amount of data they could get by looking at my drivers license for 15-20 seconds more than I trust the kid at Papa Murphy's that always demands to see my license when I buy pizza with a debit card yet I still show him.

    Honestly y'all give more "scary" info to some guy you buy a car from on Craigslist than you do when you sign your name on a bill of sale and let some guy look at your DL. You can be a felon and legally buy and sell cars.
     
  22. A and O

    A and O Member

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    Geez, must be nice having the problems you folks have.
     
  23. okespe04

    okespe04 Member

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    Out of all the deals I have ever made with strangers, the couple of times I sold, traded, etc, gun related items have been the smoothest transactions with some of the most respectable people I have dealt with. If it ever feels otherwise I will walk from the deal in a second.
     
  24. gym

    gym member

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    You do what your stae law requires you to do, An more than that is just a matter of personal taste.
    As far as id goes, I don't give my social to my doctor or anyone else, and so far I have never been refused service because of it. Giving people your personal info therse days is just asking for trouble. Assuming you don't know the person you are dealing with, why would you want them to know anything that could lead them to your door. People are nuts, even to the point of the gun failing to function ten years down the line, you don't want some nut knocking on your door asking you for their money back after, they got chewed out by their wife for spending the rent money on a gun. I had a guy come in 5 years after a haircut that he recieved in one of the salons I owned, he decided after his 5 years in the military that his wife didn't like the way his hair looked when he went in,and one of my girls "so he said" cut his hair. They were serious, People are nuts, the less you deal with them the better off you are.I figured after 3 tours in "Nam", it was way back when, we should give the crazy bastard a free haircut just so he didn't blow up the store one night.
     
  25. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    I look at it as kind of an honesty check, but then you have fun stuff like C&R, where you are required to collect information...

    But if a guy is willing to sign a piece of paper saying he is buying the gun legally, well, kinda makes you wonders, esp. if the only on paper info is his name, date and firearm info.
     
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