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Black Day for British Gun Owners

Discussion in 'Legal' started by pdog, Oct 15, 2004.

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  1. pdog

    pdog Member

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  2. Brick

    Brick Member

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    Good job Brits. Hope you know peace after this...You're gonna need it.

    [​IMG] They just keep betraying themselves. Until they start wearing a "Jood" on their shirts, maybe they'll understand. Or not.

    Hey, they volenteered, right? [​IMG]

    1.
    I don't think .17 cal bullets can do any real harm, unless up close.

    -Every gun bought, sold, destroyed or transferred to be reported to police

    [​IMG] I thought it was always like that.

    --

    I like l-i-b-e-r-a-l-s who betray themselves to fascism.

    Then when the SHTF for them it will be like [​IMG] to [​IMG] to [​IMG] to [​IMG] to finally [​IMG].


    Edit: wait...darn it, that was back then...Well, it's still bad
    edit2: major errors fixed
     
  3. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    If the intent of the ban was to prevent another Dunblane-style attack then arming teachers or providing armed security at the schools would have been a smarter move.

    There have been attacks in Japan since Dunblane, where psychotics have attacked and killed with swords and knives numbers of young schoolchildren.

    The ban will do nothing to stop that type of attack, arming the teachers potentially would however.
     
  4. agricola

    agricola Member

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    and the Dunblane ban affects Japanese schools how?
     
  5. G36-UK

    G36-UK Member

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    Considering that Hamilton shouldn't have even been given his licence by letter of law, it was a grave injustice to take guns from the law-abiding.

    And just last week, another drive-by on national TV.
     
  6. big poppa

    big poppa Member

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    crap

    the bbc are socicalist pig,s,and englands crime rate go,s up and they all ignore that, what a bunch of sheep!!:cuss:
     
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Confiscation isn't merely possible in the United States, but highly probable. The only question is how soon it's going to happen on a nationwide basis.
     
  8. big poppa

    big poppa Member

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    it,ll only happin if good men do nothing,standing around and waiting for the goverment to come take your guns is defeatist,
     
  9. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    I first take my hat off, and spend a moment in silent mourning for our cousins across the sea.

    Then I grimly remind myself that they allowed it to happen to themselves.

    They turned in their guns, or allowed them to be locked up at the gun clubs, where they where subsequently confiscated in the dead of night.

    Was there EVEN ONE incident where the gun clubs were broken into, and the racks cleaned out, with guns secretly finding their way to their rightful owners? Was even one roadblock throw up, to intercept a truckload in transit?

    Did anyone even so much as raise a FIST, when standing in line, fondling their sidearm for the last time, either in the UK or Australia?

    Was even the slightest suggestion ever made that the price extracted for the privilege of collecting guns from citizens might be too high?



    (UK/Oz guys: if there were, I'd love links, for my own edification!)

    I won't say it CAN'T happen here.

    I will say it SHALL NOT happen here, not without vigorous, creative, and possibly extraordinary opposition.

    A day _MIGHT_ come when we have to confront the awful choice between Kissing it all Goodbye, and with it the last vestiges of the Republic, or last resorting to Extraordinary Means.

    No one in their right minds wants to confront that choice.

    If we're smart and play the cards we're dealt right, we can slog our way back to a place where such a thing was UNTHINKABLE.

    Or we can be dumb, and run to a place where such a thing is PROBABLE.
     
  10. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    Agricola

    I think the point Cool-Hand Luke is driving at is that a gun isn't a necessity for perpertrating a massacre. When the victims are disarmed and herded into a pen for the orcs to kill at will, a sword is all they need.

    Great Britian needs another Runnymeade.
     
  11. igor

    igor Member

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    The Japanese did react to the stabbings by arming teachers, didn't they?

    As the obvious threat there is an edged weapon, they started providing classrooms with those two-pronged man-forks to keep a knife wielding maniac at bay. Dang, can't find a link...

    I mean, even this is a whole lot better than what the English would do...
     
  12. agricola

    agricola Member

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    geekwitha45,

    thats the thing - you are treating this issue as if the gun community in the UK is the same as it is in the US; it wasnt, and probably never was.
     
  13. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    agricola,

    It's not the "gun community", more the "community" mindset that I can't wrap my head around.

    "Your guns are now illegal. Turn them in."
    "Eff you. They're mine; I paid for them."
    "We'll reimburse you a fair value."
    "They're not for sale. If you want 'em, Skippy, you're gonna need to come get 'em."

    It's not a special attachment to the guns, or involvement in some 'gun community'. The answer would be the same if the government asked me to turn in my black tee-shirts, or my paperback books, or any other personal property of mine that they suddenly thought I should no longer own, and I'm not a member of any 'black tee-shirt community' or 'paperback book community'. (At least that I'm aware of...) Scrooem. Maybe this 'tude comes from being a product of the land of the speakeasy and the radar detector, hacker's magazines like 2600 and stores that sell bongs "for tobacco or novelty use only." Non-compliance is a time-honored tradition around these parts; heck, our most popular televised sport evolved from liquor smuggling. The idea of just meekly lining up on someone else's say-so to fork over my hard-earned belongings is absolutely alien to me, while the idea of doing something to tweak Washington's nose was fed me with my mother's milk. I was ten years old before I found out that "E Pluribus Unum" wasn't Latin for "You ain't the boss of me!" ;)
     
  14. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Sad but true.

    I doubt that Even a Beslen-type terrorist attack on a school there would change many minds about arming teachers. Armed security guards maybe, but armed citizens at work or out in public?, nyet.
     
  15. Aikibiker

    Aikibiker Member

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  16. iapetus

    iapetus Member

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    Hey - since this law was passed, I don't think there has been a single mass-murder or drive-by commited by a legal gun-owner.


    (Although all the people who make a living by breaking laws and importing illegal goods don't seem to have been affected much, for some reason).
     
  17. captlid

    captlid Member

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    just out of curiosity

    does anyone know what the compliance rate is in england?
     
  18. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    What is this, Lethal Weapon???


    :rolleyes:
     
  19. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Excluding the one at Dunblane, how many mass-murders occurred in the 10 years prior to the ban?
     
  20. igor

    igor Member

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    Thanks Aikibiker! It was right here in front of me after all.

    The French do have a tradition of real, active political discussion dating a few centuries back, after all. Plus that they never really complied with most regulations either, if another way suited better. They've got an eye for the pragmatic things in life!

    I mean, c'mon. The French can bury a president with not one, not two, but three mourning mistresses next to the widow, some with children too. :p :D :neener:

    And they don't get such mass murder happening either. I'd attribute that to the more common, let's say Mediterranean or even Arabic mentality. They don't gather steam in them, they let it out spontaneously, daily. Men in these cultures in southern Europe and around there, they go about conflict and violence like dogs or wolves. Very socially, with clear rules to avoid actual physical conflict and real danger to life. An adversary well threatened and verbally abused is as good as already dead, so no real need to go about it for real... that's different from, say, the British. Or us here up north.
     
  21. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    I'd go further than that chronologically, but I'd limit it to mass shootings...how many occurred in the fifty years prior to the ban? I'll go so far as to say that I think there will be as many in the next fifty years as there were in the last fifty - the very sad thing about the situation is the proportion of British subjects who will look at the future murders as being an improvement over the past murders because they won't be committed with a legally owned firearm - as if that's a solace to the victims.
     
  22. agricola

    agricola Member

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    I would tell coolhand about Hungerford, but he has me on ignore...
     
  23. SMLE

    SMLE Member

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    Here is a web article on Hungerford; http://www.jeremyjosephs.com/hunger.htm

    But Great Britian had some very resrtictive laws in place back then as well and they did SQUAT to stop a madman.

    Here is a quote from the article;

    "By the summer of 1987 Ryan’s collection of weapons consisted of two rifles and three handguns. They were his pride and joy, something about which he could boast to relatives and acquaintances alike. Nor was there anything illegal in this arsenal kept in the Ryans’ brick-built, end-of-terrace council house. On the contrary, Ryan had held a shotgun licence since 1978. As his collection had expanded to include other firearms, so his licence had been amended accordingly, as required by law. The Thames Valley Police had, in the twelve months before August 1987, vetted the young gun enthusiast on at least three occasions, once in November 1986 and twice in early 1987. As the storage facilities were found to be in order, there was no good reason for the relevant authorization to be withheld, and it was not."

    The nutter who shot those school chrildern in Stockton Ca. had purchased five handguns in the LA area and went through a fifteen day waiting periond and supposed police background check each time. He picked up the last one the day before the shooting.

    My point? That licenses and background checks are pretty well worthless. Both men had their prey set out for them by a combination of Government red tape and mass media brain-washing. "You don't need a gun to defend yourself there little citizen, you have the almighty POLICE to do that! Trust us! Would we ever lie to you?"
     
  24. G36-UK

    G36-UK Member

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    It's worse than it sounds. To apply for a firearms permit before the irrational ban, you had to be a paid-up member of a shooting club for at least twelve months, and have people willing to vouch for you handling guns in a safe manner.

    Thomas Hamilton (The whackjob from Dunblane) was kicked out of his local shooting club specifically for unsafe use of the guns supplied in his times there. Despite this, the police still gave him a permit.

    As you know, he later used those guns to kill a teacher, 15 kids, and fatally wound another, before killing himself.

    Strangely enough, the blame didn't fall on the incompetent officers, who for some reason didn't take away his guns after a few incidents, but on the gun laws. The anti-gun people (nicest word I can think of) decided that as long as handguns and anything above airgun powers were available to the public, the gun laws weren't strict enough.

    I dunno if this contains some of the issues, as I haven't read it yet, but here's the Cullen Report published after the Dunblane murder.

    BTW, if it puts perspective on what I say, I live not that far away from Dunblane (about 90 mins on a decent train/2 hours on our train system).
     
  25. OtG

    OtG Member

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    Not directly related to the thread, but...

    Tamara:

    ". . .heck, our most popular televised sport evolved from liquor smuggling. . . ."

    :confused:
     
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