BLACK-MZ.

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by TOOT44, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    I have a chronograph but my BlackMZ use is exclusively for cowboy action shooting. At the distance any devotion in velocity is unimportant. I've never checked it. Makes smoke and a clang.

    Kind of a dead horse anyway as no new inventory has been available for years.
     
  2. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Sez you, i say different.

    First seven rounds from new re-bored to .54 caliber Navy Arms rifle with 1/66" twist rate rounded groove bore. Powder charge was 90 grains of Black MZ powder. First shot went right and i adjusted sight. Second shot went high and i adjusted sight again and fired this five shot 50 yard group:

    oOJUFdp.jpg
     
  3. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    thank you for that target with bragging rights! I am a user of it also. and it is still available in most gun shops in my area, the NORTH EAST. although $ 35.00 a pound, but that is relative, and REAL BP. is $ 37.00 a pound & up when you can find it. I say BLACK-MZ is the way to go. soooo!,
     
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  4. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    I have also had it work in my flintlock with out a 5 to 10 grain BP, booster under it. no hang fires like with PYRODEX. some may find a different result? jmho.
     
  5. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    thank you for that info. I have never heard of that powder, SHOOTERS WORLD. going to try and find some. all listings say out of stock!
     
  6. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Yeah, it's out of production or I would be mega stocked up on it, it was priced low and worked well for me.
     
  7. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    if it was found, would it have worked in a flintlock? courious id you have ever tried it?
     
  8. noelf2

    noelf2 Member

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    So BlackMZ was made by American Pioneer Powder. I still have a mostly full jug of Goex Pinnacle, also made by APP (I think). I wonder if it's the same stuff. I tried it, and it shot well enough, but it really clumps up.
     
  9. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    Bibbyman,

    I shoot these guns to know what it was like firing them and their original ammunition in the 19th Century. I have no interest in firing them with wimpy CAS level loads. If I keep this S&W 2000 long enough to shoot up the ~ pound of Black MZ I currently have I'll try to get some of the APP powder for the Schofield. For everything else I exclusively use the real thing.

    Dave
     
  10. Bibbyman

    Bibbyman Member

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    My cowboy loads are not that wimpy. In this video I shoot my BlackMZ loads beside compressed load of FFg Goex. I didn't chronograph the loads but you can see by the recoil that they are substantially equal.

     
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  11. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    what do you do to eliminate the clumping problem? does it occur after every use?.
     
  12. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    the video you posted is great! it sure puts the rubber to the road! i thank you for taking the time to show us the difference in them.
     
  13. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    have you ever tried / used T-7, TRIPPLE -7, in them? if not would you give us a compression between it and real black, and BLACK MZ.? JUST COURIOUS?
     
  14. noelf2

    noelf2 Member

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    I just vigorously shake the jug until it's mostly loose, but eventually a small remaining clump will block pouring with my jug spout, so I just put some into a small container and dip into it from there. If I used it frequently it probably wouldn't get a chance to clump so much. I only keep it for backup powder, and rarely open it. It might end up being fertilizer.
     
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  15. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    the back yard will rely like it for sure!! if you make another video on the comparison that I asked, let me know? thanks, toot44.
     
  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    My solution to the clumping problem: i bang the can against a solid object a few times. Unopened cans sometimes clump, the clumping is primarily related to particle attraction rather than moisture.

    Never used Black MZ in black powder handguns.

    When used in rifles; Black MZ, like all the APP powders, requires a tight fitting projectile seated hard on the powder. i put a golf ball on the ramrod and really lean on it. Then i whang it once with the heavy ram rod.

    APP sent out mixed signals on the effective use of their powders. After JSG came out, APP stated that it was not necessary to compress the powder. A failure to compress any APP powder leads to large swings in extreme spread and standard deviation for velocity.

    Some time ago i fired ten rounds of 100 grains of Black MZ under a 250 grain SST bullet in the black smooth sabot clocked by my Magneto Speed. The standard deviation for velocity was 14 fps.
     
  17. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    Since I am currently shooting it in a black powder cartridge handgun would you care to explain this pronouncement?

    Dave
     
  18. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    It ain't a pronouncement. i have no experience with Black MZ in black powder handguns.
     
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  19. frontiergander

    frontiergander Member

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    For $10 a pound, it was awesome. Accurate enough to play with on the range and make a lot of smoke. But this never was a quality powder. I certainly did have a lot of fun shooting it, but having to break it apart out of the can, all 6lbs, was not fun.
    IMG-0069.jpg
    IMG-0071.jpg
    Black-MZ.jpg
     
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  20. SC45-70

    SC45-70 Member

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    Years ago I had some either Clean Shot or Clear Shot (don't remember which) that was the same way!
    SC45-70
     
  21. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    WOW!~ the pictures rely make me see what you are talking about!! in that state is / does it degrade? will it go off after crushing it? what makes thei happen to it? real BP, can stay in it's original state for years!
     
  22. noelf2

    noelf2 Member

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    It's an ascorbic acid based powder so it draws in moisture and clumps. It has an additive in it that helps it break up a little though. Ascorbic and sugar based powders do this, some more than others. In the 90's I bought some "Black Canyon" powder. That stuff didn't last a year before it turned into gum. It was ascorbic acid based.
     
  23. TOOT44

    TOOT44 Member

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    thank you for taking the time to explain. toot44.
     
  24. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Why remove the stuff from the can to break up the clumps? Just smack the can around and the clumps break up.

    Why are the powder grains in the lower picture so much larger than grains in the clump?
     
  25. frontiergander

    frontiergander Member

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    Floyd, rolling, shaking it, didnt work. I had to dump it all out and gently use a spoon to dislodge the granules. Camera Distance.
     
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