Black Powder Pistols in the News

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by arcticap, May 1, 2021.

  1. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

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    I guess Sam Colt was right. Every body is the same size when armed.

    I keep meaning to pick up one of these but I always forget. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Buck-Knives-110LT-Folding-Hunter-Lite-Lock-Back-Folding-Knife/124767996
     
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  2. brewer12345

    brewer12345 Member

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  3. BEEMAX

    BEEMAX Member

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    Black powder weapons rarely are chosen for violent crimes.
    They are big,hard to reload, have limited firepower and
    are prone to cap jams and misfires. As defensive weapons
    they are Ok since any gun is better than no gun. Also, many
    black powder guns do not have serial numbers and are not
    recorded. For the same price, criminals can buy black market
    modern guns on the street. Black powder guns pose a very
    small risk to society. The mentally ill would find loading and
    using a black powder gun very difficult. Also, black powder
    guns are the original guns that the 2nd Amendment protects.
    Gasoline and a lighter are far more dangerous in the right hands.
     
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  4. grter

    grter Member

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    "The mentally ill would find loading and using a black powder gun very difficult."

    A very bad assumption. The mental health field is a vast unchartered confusing forest that even experts who have dedicated their whole life to the field have trouble understanding and navigating. That is despite all the knowledge they have gained.

    People of all kinds are afflicted with mental illness and a good number of them are super intelligent to pure genius. A lot smarter than probably you and certainly me. Creativity is far from lacking.

    The truth is that most people who intend to use guns for combat view muzzle loaders as toys not to be bothered with. In relative terms compared to the advantages of modern firearms that reasoning can be understood. Getting a modern firearm illegally is much less of a a hassle for someone who has no regard for the law. They probably see no point in getting an obsolete muzzleloader.

    Crimes committed with muzzle loaders are the rare exception not the rule.

    Your point about gasoline and matches being dangerous is true. There is a problem with violence in this country. More people (much more) are killed and injured by other means such as knives, blunt objects, ect... than they are with firearms. This does not garner media attention like the stereotypical madman with a gun.

    Solutions to violence are going to require money and work. Political leaders would rather blame and punish all gun owners than commit to solving the problem of violence in this country. A scapegoat such as honest law abiding gun owners is who they are targeting these days to divert attention away from the real issue, that is the lack of respect for human life in the US.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  5. gtrgy888

    gtrgy888 Member

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    As right as you are, banning guns was never about public safety. It’s about power and who is allowed to wield it.
     
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  6. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    They are walking around free for several reasons:

    1. They are released early because of overcrowding of prisons.

    2. The prosecutor entered into a plea deal for a reduced sentence.

    3. They are cut loose by the parole board.

    4, Some states have minimum sentences for violent crimes: Judges and prosecutors get around that. Recently a career Lawton, OK criminal was given a "20 year sentence" for a home invasion. Yep, ten years suspended, five years probation and five years to serve. The perp will be out in 2-3 years. The prosecutor failed to add felon in possession of a firearm to his charge sheet.

    5. Many of the same "tough on crime" political hacks who demand long sentences, get stingy and refuse to build more prisons.

    i worked for a couple years as a corrections officer and can say you don't want your daughter bringing one of these guys home.
     
  7. NathanHale

    NathanHale Member

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    Guns was never the original intent of the 2A. It was arms sufficient to throw off tyranny. The belief that it is about anything else is where the anti-gun crowd gains a foot-hold. It is like saying the 1st A was about quill pens and rudimentary printing presses. That is why it is the timeless “speech” and “Arms” is written and “The People” is everybody. Any law that abridges any Constitutional RIGHT, not privilege granted , should be defended to the letter.
     
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  8. grter

    grter Member

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    You would not want your daughter sitting on the adjacent bench next to one of these guys in a prison cell while waiting to see a judge for jaywalking in this new get tough on crime utopia you are proposing. You would want the jail space to be available for real criminals only. Cramming a whole bunch of non violent offenders in the same room with hardened violent offenders is a pretty stupid move if the goal is to decrease crime. They cannot build enough prisons to contain all these people if they tried. People who don't belong in prison should not be in prison and people who belong in prison should be in prison. As far as corrections is concerned everybody should be in prison for anything as long as it lines their pockets with large amounts of money. The courts are the same way attorneys make a killing on legal fees and judges and political cronies have lavish salaries and work environments all paid for by average tax paying Americans.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
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  9. grter

    grter Member

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    That is true. In the old days private companies and individuals owned state of the art (for the time period) fully armed warships. While I believe all firearms and common weapons should be available to the average person I do not think it would be wise to make Nuclear warheads or other weapons of mass destruction freely available. Unfortunately those types of weapons have been known to be available on the black market at some time or another (currently?)
     
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  10. gtrgy888

    gtrgy888 Member

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    Our law enforcement has also gotten softer in the past 10 years and many preferentially pursue easier targets for arrest. This causes overcrowding of prisons with nonviolent offenders and creates a dragnet that catches minnows while letting real sharks escape consequences for years until they do something bad enough that the system is forced to finally deal with them.
     
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  11. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    So, you don't know much about prisons and how they operate, do ya...it's OK, most people don't. All statements below are for the Great State of Arizona only.
    Your daughter will never ever be sitting next to a male inmate. Ever. Not even if the male inmate "identifies"as a female, trans, or a tulip. She will be, if an incarcerated inmate, only be housed with female inmates.
    If you look at the law books you will find laws that make felons out of very ordinary people for laws we didn't even know exist. So if you want "real criminals only", better get to work with your elected officials to define what a "real criminal" is, to start with. Also, we seperate by crime if violent or not, and different custody levels based on many criteria, crime being one of them. It is highly unlikely a garden variety criminal would be housed with a murderer or rapist.
    We don't have enough space? Dude we SHUT DOWN an ENTIRE unit, and are looking at closing Florence Complex completely - come see Central Unit when it gets turned in to a museum. I have stories from that place......we have plenty of space. The population is DROPPING. For example, use that link below and you can find in Jan 2018, the total population was 41,727, and in March of this year, with the most recent numbers, is 36,704.
    People who don't belong in prison - same as above. Here's a great example - pot smokers. Now Arizona JUST decriminalized Maui Wowie for domestic use, but for a very long time it was illegal. So the most common thing I heard was "let out all the non violent dope smokers and we'll have lots of prison space!" This got so prevalent that ADCRR started tracking just how many we actually have, for pot only. Would you like to know? We'll go back to November of 2020, because when legalization passed, several DAs quit prosecuting. So, November of 2020, out of a total population of 38,141, we had...99 in for weed. Point three percent of the total population.
    https://corrections.az.gov/sites/default/files/REPORTS/CAG/2020/cagnov-20.pdf
    Corrections makes money? Not from where I am sitting - state departments SPEND money not make it, and the level of custody determines cost. IIRC, a level 1/2 is about $25K a year while a level 5 max is over $50K a year to house, feed, educate, (mandated), program, (mandated), provide health care, clothing, etc. T'ain't cheap at all. Now if you talk PRIVATE prisons, now the answer is yes - they lobby for harsher sentences for non violent crimes because lengthy stays for easy to manage inmates is what they like, makes good money for them off the state. Some states have realize prisons for profit are a bad move - we'll get there. Many of the private prisons in AZ are actually housing interstate compact inmates from Hawaii and California. They won't take anything above Level 3 medium, and they love SOs, because sex offenders tend to be both easier to manage and have longer sentences.
    Attorneys DO make money on legal fees....the DEFENSE attorneys. The DA and those that work for the DA are on state paychecks. So the ones who are trying to put people IN prison are NOT the ones making bank. Judges - no idea, but you are right about one thing - the judge and the DA DO work for the same person - the governor.
    Now that we covered all that, just so we can SLIDE this back to black powder in the news, the Yuma Territorial Prison had a famous black powder firearm in the news well over 100 years ago when they used their Gatling gun to fire at escaping inmates. They missed, the escapees were recaptured, and the gun is still on display in Yuma, or so I've been told.
    Moderators, sorry, but sometimes I just gotta say something, being the guy behind the wire for almost 20 years.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  12. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Again, for AZ;
    Number one crime to be incarcerated for is - assault, 4,848. Violent.
    Number 2 - Drug sales/Trafficking. 3,615. This is NOT drug use, seperate charge. These are the ones selling dope to your kids.
    Number 3 - Robbery - 3,244
    Number 4 - Murder - 2,887
    Number 5 - Sex Offense, not to include rape, 2,667
    Number 6 - drug possession, (all), 2,354. These the guys you want me to turn loose?
    Number 7 - Burglary/criminal trespass. 2,131. You want these guys out? Burglary includes 2nd degree, burglary of an occupied structure and 1st degree, armed burglary, out the door they should go?
    Number 8 - Auto theft. 1,787. We should reward them with being back on the streets again so they can take more of our hard earned money, with, in this state, most stolen cars going to chop shops or down to Mexico.
    Number 9 - Weapons Offenses. 1,659. Hard to say, that covers a gamut, might be BS might not be, but with Arizona's excellent gun laws, (voted best in the nation for firearms freedom 6 or 7 years running by Guns and AMmo mag, it's not like California where you do time for a 30 round mag while the carjacker walks free.
    Number 10 - Child Molestation. NOBODY wants these people back on the streets...nobody.

    You get my point - you can say "let the non violent out", but there's a WHOLE lot more going on that a simple slogan.
    My data link.
    https://corrections.az.gov/sites/default/files/REPORTS/CAG/2021/cagmar-21.pdf
     
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  13. gtrgy888

    gtrgy888 Member

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    You misunderstand my point. I don’t want one of them turned loose. I want actual arrests of the worst criminal elements to be the focus. We saw all summer how the police stood down and watched violent assaults against citizens and property and then arrested people engaged in self defense because they knew those people would be safer and easier to arrest. It’s cowardice and it shows that contemporary police protocol is SOFT.
     
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  14. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Every time I hear people talking about laws around muzzleloaders my brain goes to this video. It’s painful to know how idiotic some people are.
     
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  15. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Interesting! Smokeless powder would need to be used or the shooter would be easy to spot.
     
  16. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    The folks that want to completely ban firearms, such as Carlson's "guest", will stop at nothing to convolute the conversation with such references to .50 caliber (supposedly BMG) suppressed firearms using possibly muzzleloaders. It reminds me of the California Senator/Congressman/woman talking about AR-15 rifles with a stock that goes up. They have no clue, but they will foment any supposed "danger" in their minds to completely disarm the American populace. Good luck: Gun sales are at an all time high, most all applying have passed a background check, and the Fed Gov is going to have a hard time reigning in any firearms that have a more than a 10 round magazine capacity.

    And then they have to contend with firearms that are off the ATF grid. Keep your powder dry.
     
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  17. NathanHale

    NathanHale Member

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    The people who are harmed the most are those the crap-talking politicians say they want to help. It is Orwellian right now. God bless us, every one.
     
  18. 1861

    1861 Member

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  19. tark

    tark Member

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    If you live in Illinois, you already have to. Some air rifles as well.
     
  20. gtrgy888

    gtrgy888 Member

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  21. 1861

    1861 Member

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    I find that article amusing on more than one level. It shows how much harder is to obtain firearms in Europe compared to America - so Pietta .36 suddenly and unexpectedly became a desirable solution. Which leeds to the UK streets in the 21st century having a touch of American 19th century towns. :cool:
     
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  22. LoadingPirate

    LoadingPirate Member

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    I would have no problem using my Remington or one of my 1851s for self defense if that's all I had.
     
  23. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    It's totally backwards compared to suppressors between most of Europe and the US. We have to pay a tax and submit paperwork while those in Europe pay and walk right out of the store with them.

    And I have to agree, most criminals will look for a stolen pistol on the streets over buying a black powder firearm. Stolen Glocks, and Hi Points seem to be favored the most.
     
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  24. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    There are hundreds of thousands of police in the U.S. and you watched very few "standing down." Before you run your mouth you need to know what you are talking about. As of today there have been 150 duty deaths in 2021. You aren't going to call those men and women cowards. Stop watching Cops and NCIS because you are not an expert on law enforcement and your posts make you look small.
     
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  25. SquidBubble

    SquidBubble Member

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    So uh...my Pietta 1858 Army is good to go? :)
    I haven't shot it yet and I'm already considering a centerfire conversion cylinder. The thought of rolling ammo like joints isn't very appealing if I'm frank.
     
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