Black Rifles ?

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yeah no one has given any proof or any blind test results, just keep repeating blah blah, if you want to believe in something and feel better, that's fine, i am not convinced until i see evidence

i am not the one who tells people A is better than B, force down people's throat, how do you know A is better than B? you tested it? you saw people tested it and saw the data? or you just read on the net some joe said so? maybe joe knows nothing he just read on the net like you did, or maybe joe works for company A, who knows

@Ragnar Danneskjold, if you are talking about barrel steel, actually most of the "makers" buy barrels from same source like FNH, they are just assemblers, not actually manufacturers, only handful of companies can make production barrels, among them FNH, remington-dpms-bushmaster (merged to be freedom grp) can
 
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Barrel steel, bolt steel, receiver extension strength, etc. are indeed different between different manufacturers. So are attention to the assembly details that make for a reliable rifle long-term (gas key screw torque and staking, castle nut staking rather than loctite, etc.).

FWIW, my AR is mid-tier (Rock River), not top-grade, so I'm not bashing lower-end guns at all. But I did have to have my gas key redone and staked my castle nut myself, because RRA didn't bother, and (knowing what I know now) I believe I could have gotten a BCM for very close to what I paid for the RRA.
 
I can't believe I just read all five pages of this thread. Conclusion: some $700 ARs are better than others. There is an infinite amount of information on the web confirming this. Do some research and pick out the best rifle for your budget. If you fire 100 round each range session you probably will not notice a difference, but why settle for less?
 
DPMS.....

:scrutiny: Why settle for less ? .........All I ever said was that I wanted something to play with.Now that has been stretched out around the block a couple of times by brand braggers and armchair commandoes.I'm not saying everybody,but a lot of you guys go off the deep end about things.Thank you to you guys who helped me with some opinion.
 
it's amazing that people simply choose to ignore that parts are not just parts. sure fnh can make barrels for any company. they can also do it from different steel and to different specs.

ns66, talk to just about any reputable carbine class instructor about which rifles fail more often than others. you can tout "show me proof" all you want, but ignoring known variables is purely foolish.
 
@proven, so which instructor told you which rifles fail more? that could be one data point to think about, when you get big sample data points, people can make better decisions. i am all for tests and real world statistics, instead of people making up things or pass around baseless opinions or internet chat as facts
 
ns66, by your own admission you're new to firearms. You just got your first AR two weeks ago - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=634108. Now you're on here acting like an experienced AR user. Further, if anyone's experience differs from your opinion, you discredit such experience by calling it unfounded opinion.

Since the experienced opinions here aren't good enough for you, here's a link you may find interesting - http://www.slip2000.com/art-swat2.html.
 
@ns66, as is stated in the article that ugaarguy posted, pat rogers always comes to mind. i've never actually seen this article but have heard him talk about which rifles fail more than others in the classes he runs. but then you probably have no idea who he is, so you'll just discount his experience and knowledge anyway.

you should really do more research before spouting off about things that you seem to know little about.
 
ns66, by your own admission you're new to firearms. You just got your first AR two weeks ago - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=634108. Now you're on here acting like an experienced AR user. Further, if anyone's experience differs from your opinion, you discredit such experience by calling it unfounded opinion.

Since the experienced opinions here aren't good enough for you, here's a link you may find interesting - http://www.slip2000.com/art-swat2.html.
lol, all i ask for is evidence, i never said which rifle is better unlike some people behave as if he has tried 10 brands and broke at least 2, even if you have used ar-15 for 10 years most likely your experience is on one or two of ar-15 and never shot enough to break any and have enough sample to draw any meaningful conclusion.

stay on the message, who i am is totally irrelevant (i am new to rifles doesn't mean i am stupid, i happened to have research background), if you have anything to back up your claim of some brand is inferior and fails often just link us, instead of going for personal attacks which accomplish nothing

the magazine article, even though looks like a BCM promo piece not any kind of scientific blind test, is one data point, if you want to draw any conclusion that's up to you
 
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@ns66, as is stated in the article that ugaarguy posted, pat rogers always comes to mind. i've never actually seen this article but have heard him talk about which rifles fail more than others in the classes he runs. but then you probably have no idea who he is, so you'll just discount his experience and knowledge anyway.

you should really do more research before spouting off about things that you seem to know little about.
to me rf-15 is not rocket science, any average joe can understand most of it in a week or two :D, as about brand loyalty and its economics is just common sense, only scientific data convinces me, nothing else will

again, stay on the message, if you claim brand A is better or brand B fails for civilian use, spell out whether it's your opinion? your personal experience? read on the net from joe? read a magazine article? heard from your instructor? if you don't bother then people have right to assume your claim is just your personal opinion
 
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I personally think that rifles, cars, bikes or any product are pretty much the same. Personal preference. I like certain calibers but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try others.

I bought a remlin 336 after reading rave reviews and how awesome it is and blah blah. I got to the range and I wanted to bend the barrel to me the weapon sucked, to others it might the best thing since the invention of the 1911.

Read the opinions work within your budget and find out for yourself.
 
ns66- you asked for an instructor and i gave you one. how is that not staying "on message" you shrug off that article like it means nothing. to an inexperienced guy like yourself, it might mean just that...nothing. oh, but that's right you've done research, and your not dumb.:rolleyes: to guys that have been in this industry a while, a showing like that says something. you can sit back and whine about "show me evidence, i have a background in research" all you want. well, guess what, these guys have a background is using rifles more than you ever will and they state what they know to be true from first hand experience. that's more than you've done. try to do even half of what what was done with the bravo co rifle in the article and see how you fare.

all in all it seems that you're a bit sour to the fact that your bushy gets picked on by guys who know what they're talking about. you think you've got it all figured out. so be it. have fun with your rifle.
 
@proven, you make me laugh, you can only stay on personal attacks but got nothing else, i can buy any ar-15 i wanted but i specifically chose bushmaster carbon because it's lighweight and fit MY needs, not stupidly following personal opinions from someone who THINKS he knows everything but has no clue about statistics and scientific methodology. maybe you don't understand if i buy those *opinions* on the web i would have bought something else, but i didn't see any evidence that's convincing so i bought the bushmaster, i put my money where my mouth is. and looked at your useless posts i am done talking to people like you, other readers can draw whatever conclusion they want, whatever they buy is none of my business anyway, but i stick with my view, show me proof or do scientific blind tests or it's just your opinion, nothing else, and its value is, whatever :D
 
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haha. cheers, pal. i don't see a personal attack in any of my posts. again, you can talk about scientific methodology all you want, but abandoning the first hand experience of top names in the industry is rather juvenile and arrogant. as i said have fun with your rifle, it fits your needs, that's fantastic. but when someone says that there's something better out there, try not and take it too personally and start mumbling about scientific methodology and your background in research. no one cares.
 
@proven, you just don't get it do you, "when someone says that there's something better out there" means nothing without anything to back it up

the magazine article linked says BCM rifle shot 31000 rounds without problem, that's fine, but that doesn't prove BCM is better than CPMS or bushmaster since they may shoot 40000 rounds. if in another article CPMS shot 20000 rounds and failed but that doesn't prove CPMS is worse than BCM, why? because the conditions of their tests are different, see the point? scientific methodology is not just fancy words, it's how you do meaningful research and draw meaningful conclusions, there's no other way, that's what modern science and technology based upon. if you want to believe in something without proof that's called religion not science, if that makes you feel good fine with me :D
 
your reading comprehension isn't too good is it. instructors aren't saying this without anything to back it up. they're saying it from first hand experience with rifles from just about every mfr. there's an article that shows what a bcm rifle can do. you're asserting that a dpms can do the same, so find me proof, mr science man. :rolleyes:
 
@proven, did i assert dpms can do the same or is better or worse than any other brand? i think it's your reading comprehension that isn't too good :D
 
by calling people that claim a bcm is better than a dpms brand fanboys, and that their claims are baseless, yes, you're basically saying that bcm is no better, and that a dpms can't hold it's own under the same circumstances. you have very little experience with the ar, and guns in general from your previous posts, and there are plenty of people in the field who see the differences in quality all the time.

you stated in an earlier post in another thread regarding glocks, that the "experts" say that you should by a handgun that points naturally......why believe them? have you seen any conclusive evidence or hard scientific data that proves this to be true? no. you simply took what other more experienced people than yourself know to be true from first hand accounts and used it to make a recommendation. this is no different. with the exception that you get your panties in a bunch when someone recommends a rifle contrary to your own purchase.

go shoot your rifle.
 
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Like I said it's a matter of opinion and personal preference...really don't get the big deal and he said this he said that. As long as the rifle performs to you liking and fits your needs why should it matter if chuck hawks or whoever said this rifle is better.

Try it yourself it should only matter to the user not the onlookers.:banghead:
 
@proven, it's a waste of time talking to you, enjoy your little corner comfort zone that you can understand and feel good about your belief whatever it's
yes i am enjoying my rifle and any scientific research/test that's meaningful, we are at different level let's enjoy our stuff our own way :D
 
Like I said it's a matter of opinion and personal preference...really don't get the big deal and he said this he said that. As long as the rifle performs to you liking and fits your needs why should it matter if chuck hawks or whoever said this rifle is better.

Try it yourself it should only matter to the user not the onlookers.:banghead:
i agree

but i can also understand some people want to push their brand to feel better, or have vested interest in it, internet ad is free :D
 
ns66- excellent retort:rolleyes: you're right about one thing...guys like you with no experience choosing to promote professional opinions in one thread and then calling them bunk, anecdotal evidence and crying scientific foul in another are exactly that...a waste of time.
 
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