Blackpowder weapons for concealed carry?

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BLACKPOWDER IN MICHIGAN

First, the firearms laws were recently changed so that blackpowder handguns are no longer considered "firearms", and therefore no purchase permit or "safety inspection" (read: registration) is required.
Click to expand...

Technically, MI law was amended to classify certain firearms as "antique firearms", but they are still very much considered firearms under current MI law.

I'm not trying to nit-pick but we wouldn't want any unsuspecting Michiganians or our guests to mistakenly think that they can stuff one of these things in their pocket and be immune to persecution.

One further note: MI law does not consider an antique handgun to be unloaded simple by removing the caps as it does with M.L. longarms.
So travelers beware! Handguns must be " unloaded in both barrel and magazine" and transported in the trunk of your vehicle, or enclosed in a case designed for the storage of a firearm and inaccessable to the occupants of the vehicle.
 
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Blackpowder in Michigan

I stand corrected. You still do not need a purchase permit to buy one anymore, though, nor do you have to register it.

I'm curious about the "unloaded" definition, though. When I took hunter's safety (some time in the previous century:rolleyes: ), they told us that a muzzle-loader was considered unloaded for transportation purposes if the priming was removed (from a flintlock) or the cap was removed (from a percussion gun), even if there was a charge in the barrel. This was in the days before 209 primer-ignited blackpowder guns. Has this changed, then? (They never differentiated between handguns & longarms.)

BTW, the first gun I carried after getting my CCW was an antique - a circa 1892-1896 Hopkins & Allen XL double-action in ".32 Calibre Center Fire" (it was loaded with .32 S&W shorts). Didn't have anything better at the time, though that changed as soon as I could afford something more modern.
 
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Caplocks Are Fun, But....

Guys,


Caplock revolvers are great fun to shoot, but they have serious drawbacks as a primary self-defense weapons as gopguy discussed. Sure, large caliber caplock revolvers can drop an attacker as quickly as many modern handguns, but they are handicapped by their ignition systems as well as their single- action firing modes. That said, they are a hoot to shoot.

Since this is my first posting on this forum, I would like to say how much I enjoy this section on blackpowder firearms. Why? It brings back pleasant memories of shooting blackpowder firearms with some of my family members who have now passed on. So, thanks for stirring up some good memories.


Timthinker
 
.45

Fun discussion. The original post talked about blackpowder, but didn't specify what kind of gun you were using. I have shot .45 auto with no ill effects out of my m1911, using pyrodex. Worked great and made a very satisfying cone of fire and cloud of smoke. I fired about 50 rounds with no failures or problems. I suppose eventually it would have clogged up to the point of failing to operate, but I doubt many self defense shootings go beyond a mag or two at most.

I have seen pics of modern revolvers, .38 specials and .44 mags fired using black powder loads. Fun stuff. No real reason to carry that way, but it works. And if the bad guy is close enough you have the added fun of lighting his shirt on fire.

The only drawback with the m1911 was clean-up afterwards. I had to take it all to bits and really CLEAN it! Black crud everywhere.

If Illinois had some exceptin for BP guns I would probably try it. But I doubt we do. Anyone know about BP and the law in IL?
 
I was just checking that out last night, in fact, since I haven't lived in Illinois since 1993 (my dad was stationed at NTC Great Lakes and retired that year), and would like to take my wife to see the museums in Chicago some time in the next few years. They've changed the laws since then, for sure. 13 years ago, I didn't need an FOID to buy a blackpowder gun, though you did need one for caps, balls, and powder (classified as "reloading components"). Now, you DO need an FOID for blackpowder guns. The only exception seems to be for genuine, bona-fide antiques. Here's a website: www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

Thank goodness I live in a gun-and-ccw-friendly state now!
 
Human beings haven't changed any in the last 100 years so a gun that was deadly a 100 years ago should be just as deadly today. Yes cap and ball is less reliable when it comes to ignition but a blackpowder cartridge gun is as reliable as one loaded with smokeless. I occasionally carry my MKII Webley on my ccw loaded with mild modern 45 auto-rim loads but I wouldn't feel less armed with some loaded with FFFG or Pyrodex. In fact I've been thinking about loading some with Pyrodex P and some Hornady 255gr. lead cowboy bullets so as to have a load closer to the original .455 rounds to plink with. It seems to me they'd be just as reliable for defense as any modern ammo-gun combo.
 
First gun I carried.

When I was a kid, about 14 or so, we were having a little trouble around so my Grandpa gave me an old Colt 44-40 to carry. BP loads only, he insisted. That's all I shoot in it even today, when I do shoot it. Not very often anymore. It's about the only revolver I've found that fits my hand. Nice shaped bird's head grips. Barel is about four inches.
 
I don't know about CCW or home defense, but at the range I'm more accurate with my BP revolver than with any semi auto I've tried. I'm assuming it's a combination of a long barrel and lack of recoil.

So if I ever needed to defend myself from some cans and water bottles, I know what I'd be shooting... ;)
 
I sometimes carry my Remmington O/U derringer.

It is .41 rimfire and not very powerful but it is the only thing I will risk carrying in my coat pocket. I actually had to pull it once when some begger kept trying to separate me from my kids 2 and 6.
 
Y'know, I just had an idea... there any way to safely run blackpowder (or any other kind of "non-smokeless" powder) in an autoloader without gumming it up? I'm thinking it'd be helpful if my 1911 could lay down a smokescreen as it's fired...
 
I've posted before that I sometimes will open carry one of my replica '58's on the hunt club or my back yard checking traps, scouting, or what not instead of my M1911A1 & I still keep one or two ready for action here at the home for H.D. purposes.

Out in the Field I may switch to a cylinder loaded with conicals for that extra punch on the 4 legged creatures but for H.D. I like the .457 Ball.
As many here know, a Ball can inflict a very deadly wound but it also looses it's energy very quickly when it strikes a target & my thinking is this:

Say 02:00 B.G. enters home & I did by chance grab one of my C&B Revolvers & did have to use it, if I missed a shot or if it did penetrate completely that ball would likely strike a wall that my child is behind in their bed & being that a ball looses it's energy quickly the likely hood of my child sharing that projectile is diminished "mind you not completely but better odds than my 230gr. JHP or Ball load from my .45ACP."

I've learned from years of experience that I can load these weapons to be just as weather resistent as any other cartridge firearm out there to where while out in the field if by chance I did get caught in rain or what not the cylinder that is in revolver will reliably fire it's 5 chambers.

To the question of loading a .45ACP up with Black Powder or Pyrodex:
You can do it but I would only do that as a joke at the range for a friend because it can gum up the works quite quickly & if not loaded with sufficient ammount of powder may not reliably work the action with enough force to eject the spent round & reload a fresh one depending on how stiff the recoil spring is on the paticular piece.
 
Colt Pocket Models

I've been carrying Second Generation Colt Pocket Models since the early 80s. I have a Pocket Police and a Pocket Navy. They go to the range on a regular basis and rarely give problems. A good percentage of the time when I leave home, one of them goes with me. I've got modern firearms and modern single actions also - it just depends on what I am doing and what I feel like that day. A few years ago I sent them to Colt Black Powder Arms when they were up and running and had them refinished. Today they are both tricked out in pre-ban ivory. Just a personal choice - not for everyone. Happy shooting:)
 
Colt Second Generation Pocket Models

The 1862 Pocket Police was shortened, and had a smaller Army style front sight added. My wife also had my name engraved on the back strap as a Christmas present the year I had the work done.

The 1862 Pocket Navy is still in its original configuration.

Both have had pre-ban elephant ivory grips made for them by Jerry Meacham.
 

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Grips

Nothing like Ivory - several years ago I pretty much quit buying new guns (already had what I wanted). In fact I sold some of my guns that had become safe queens. Kept the ones I use and shoot. That freed up some cash and I started slowly tricking a few out with pre-ban ivory. Jerry Meacham has done several guns for me (all single actions) and in my opinion he is one of the best at his craft. Very reasonable too.

The 1851 was my first BP Colt (2nd Gen)/grips by Jerry Meacham
The Bisley was custom built (parts gun) by Dave Chicoine www.oldwestgunsmith.com /grips by Jerry Meacham
The Cimarron Lightning had some custom work by Dave Chicoine/grips by Jerry Meacham

Jerry can be reached at: (704) 485-3374
or
(704) 578-3585 cell
 

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bellygun w/conversion cylinder

no one likes this idea?,a 2-3" pistol w/a converesion cylinder for there ccw gun.if one is used to carrying a bp weapon this would be perfect with no need for changing mindset for a modern handgun.my 2cents worth.


Respectfully


mike
 

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That Would Get Your Attention

mike6975 that is a neat looking custom outfit. How accurate is it? I have been seeing a lot of posts the conversion cylinders, they definitely put a different perspective on C&B revolvers.
 
these aren't mine PRM others post these,i'm currently finishing mine,and have put alot of time and effort into it.it's nice to be able to shoot bp all then switch over to cartridge when you go out at night with the family,and not have to worry about if it's goin to fire or not.


Respectfully,

mike
 
Good Option

I am a little more traditional with my C&B. When I want a cartridge gun, I will pick one of my other single actions or "other" dependent on what I'm doing. But, I can really see where if you were going to own and use one gun it would have its benefits. It is a great option for the new shooter who wants the best of both.
 
bellygun w/conversion cylinder

Mike - I really like your rig! How do you load C&B w/o the rammer and retain the cylinder pin? I would like to have that done as well! :D
 
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