Body Armor

[84B20]

There is one HUGE difference. Some of us are saying why we won't buy, wear or store body armor; but we all will agree that you can buy as much body armor as you want. Anti's will tell you that you shouldn't have it because they don't see a need. That's a pretty big difference.

I didn't say all but the tone of some seem to feel that way. I may be wrong but that's just my imression. Again, I don't advocate everyone should go out and buy some, afterall BA, as stated expires, but I feel since I have BA I feel more prepared for disaster. A lot of the times it is just that feeling that helps maintain a piece of mind.

 

[CHEVELLE427]

shtf
i could see were i should have picked something up.

but for now if a deal came along i would pick it up, did have a dealer try to trade me a vest for a gun once

 

[ForumSurfer]

A lot of the times it is just that feeling that helps maintain a piece of mind.

Exactly, and you are free to act on that. I'm not criticizing anyone' choice, I'm just saying why it doesn't make sense for me. If it gives you piece of minds, go for it. BA stacked in my safe would give absolutely no piece of mind whatsoever, but that's just my little world.

My arguments against my purchase of body armor are similar an anti's approach to not owning a gun for self defense...there's a %99.999 I'll never need it. If I'm going to buy it for me, I need to buy it for my whole family. Then we're talking about a substantial investment. I just feel there's a point when I'm taking preparedness to far for my own potential needs and budget.

 

[DAP90]

I feel since I have BA I feel more prepared for disaster.

I can’t think of any real world disaster scenario where I would want to have BA; including out of control rioting. I'd much rather have greater maneuverability and endurance by not carrying the extra weight.

 

[Jesse H]

I voted Kevlar armor only because the city paid for mine. Once I'm done with my shift in the morning and peel it off, I don't want to think about that smelly, uncomfortable, heavy and expensive vest until the following night I go back to work.

I wouldn't buy one on my own dime much less wear it. I definitely wouldn't pay to replace it every 5 years as suggested by the manufacterer.

 

[jobu07]

If you want the burden of buying and storing body armor, along with the burden of purchasing and wearing it, go for it! What a great country we live in.

Been there, done that, have it, store, don't wear it. It's good stuff, but not something I want to wear every day again if I can help it.

 

[CapnMac]

Bunch of items missing in here.
'Really the calculus is quite simple: If you should be wearing a helmet, you probably should be wearing a pro-vest (which kind, at that point, might be a more cogent discussion).

The comment about generators struck a chord, though. I've spent thirty years in the design & construction industry (until our glorious Economy took that all away with Mr Peabody's coal train). One of my pet peeves is with people/organizations which buy a gen set and then never maintain it. They are always surprised when things go south and you can't just push the "easy" button.

That under-clothing pro-vest, or that "flak jacket"/plate carrier in the closet is like an unused genny. It's probably not stored right. It's probably not adjusted right either (human body dimensions cycle daily, weekly, monthly as is, add in age-related metabolic changes). But, as with all other disaster/business recovery plans, if you are not testing the plan out, if you are not exercising the system, it's like a genny with no POL. And, as potentially as dangerous--that "dryer cord" genset hook up is becoming every more illegal, from the risk of energizing downed power lines.

"But, it's so hard; it's too complicated--no body can do that Brother Bluto!" Heard this a time or two. Have to take a deep breath and explain, once again, about how I used to trundle about the ocean in big gray metal boxes. That, when they had a "fire drill" I was expected to be able to go from sound asleep to having my steel-toe boonies on, gloves, flash hood, OBA, and a red helmet on; to then check my berthing area before beating feet to the REP 3 rally point ready to take the muster from the LPO. And, it was preferred that this happen really fast. And 100% of the time. Including socks rolled over trousers and all. And heaven help you if the XO thought any were slacking off.

Humans are capable of some miraculous and marvelous things; quite a few of those requiring some concerted practice. Ok, what I used to do in 90-100 seconds might take 4-5 minutes now--but, I also know where my boonies are and that they fit, too.

It's not merely have-and-not-need; it's have-and-can-use. Do they have battery back-ups for the computers where you work? Have they tested them? Are the internet routers protected too? Tested that? 80% of the time the answer is no.

Dang it, I'm going to go check my fire extinguishers now . . .

 

[ForumSurfer]

The comment about generators struck a chord, though. I've spent thirty years in the design & construction industry (until our glorious Economy took that all away with Mr Peabody's coal train). One of my pet peeves is with people/organizations which buy a gen set and then never maintain it. They are always surprised when things go south and you can't just push the "easy" button.

Amen, brother!

I work in IT and much of my job revolves around disaster preparation and disaster recovery.

...everything from local crashes to "OMG the building is gone!?!?!"

When it comes to disaster preparedness, people tend to view you in one of two ways:

1. You are a incompetent buffoon for not seeing some obscure problem happening (usually what happened was a budget getting sliced, in which case document your objections tto cover your rear when the SHTF.
2. Disaster strikes and everything goes smooth. You are still an incompetent buffoon because you wasted money on contingency plans for unlikely events.

You'd think that after dealing with all of that daily, I'd have some crazy setups at my house consisting of a small armory, massive generators and body armor. No, I don't. I have just enough generator to run the water pump, interior ligthing, exterior lighting and freezers. A small safe, a small pile of ammo (1000 or so rounds per caliber) and no body armor or night vision. I do have quite a few cases of bottled water on hand and I get strange looks over that more often than anything...but I work out often, drink massive amounts of water and I hate to run out. I've tried filtration systems in the past at other houses (ground water), but I was never happy with the end result.

 

[84B20]

Talk about preparation. I do have a dedicated carrier for my vest, one that is made for it by the manufacturer. And my generator is tested regularly. I have enough gas stored properly to run it for a month. If needed it can be hooked up to my electrician installed manual transfer switch in about 10 minutes. It will run all of my refrigerators and freezer incliding my well plus my server that also has a tested UPS as well as all of my critical outlets in the house. I have more but enough said.

 

[Grey Morel]

I don't know about you guys, but when something goes "bump" in the night I am either...

A) Lounging in a recliner watching TV in my den

B) In bed sleeping or attempting to sleep.

I fail to see how a vest in my closet will help me in either situation. While I do keep my house gun (S&W 6" 629, 44mag) either in the drawer of my night stand, or on the end table next to my recliner, There is just no way I would ware armor about my home.

In situation 'A', I would have to move across the length of my house to retrieve said armor, thus likely arriving too late to scare off the vermin raiding my trash cans, OR possibly encountering any intruder in one of the more exposed rooms I would have to pass though. Useless.

In Situation 'B' I would have to stumble out of bed, stagger over to the closet, put on the armor, and then move to most advantageous position... which is the bed I would have just gotten out of. Useless.

This is reality. If I'm in my chair and I hear a strange noise, I'm just going to take the revolver in my hand and move it to 'low ready' in the direction of the door. If I am in bed with my wife, and we hear a suspicious noise, then I'm going to retrieve the gun within my arms reach, and point it at the locked door adjacent.

In neither situation would it be advantageous for me to try to 'suit up' and engage the perceived enemy.

 

[84B20]

As most posts indicate, BA is not for every day home use, just for SHTF scenarios at least for me. I don't even keep it in my house. It is stored in another building on my property but I can get to it if needed.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Talk about preparation. I do have a dedicated carrier for my vest, one that is made for it by the manufacturer. And my generator is tested regularly. I have enough gas stored properly to run it for a month. If needed it can be hooked up to my electrician installed manual transfer switch in about 10 minutes. It will run all of my refrigerators and freezer incliding my well plus my server that also has a tested UPS as well as all of my critical outlets in the house. I have more but enough said.

You see 84B20, I think that is just it. I spend all day ensuring my systems are bullet proof. Phones, network, servers or whatever since I'm on a networking team. My power and UPS's are redundant, my backup generators are redundant, the network is designed so that there aren't any single points of failure, seamless failovers for equipment, seamless failovers of ISP's and heck even building failovers. You'd think a guy like me would have wicked cool systems at home, but no. Just the bare necessities. Enough generator to keep the essentials going for a couple of weeks (assuming I have enough as stored) and no electronic junk up and running save battery powered devices. I like to keep it as simple and spartan as possible. Once my kids are off and I'm retired, my dream would be to live in Alaska and survive on a woodburning stove in cabin in the middle of the wilderness where it is eat or be eaten...and never hear the terms "redundant" or "disaster preparedness" again.

 

[84B20]

You see 84B20, I think that is just it. I spend all day ensuring my systems are bullet proof. Phones, network, servers or whatever since I'm on a networking team. My power and UPS's are redundant, my backup generators are redundant, the network is designed so that there aren't any single points of failure, seamless failovers for equipment, seamless failovers of ISP's and heck even building failovers. You'd think a guy like me would have wicked cool systems at home, but no. Just the bare necessities. Enough generator to keep the essentials going for a couple of weeks (assuming I have enough as stored) and no electronic junk up and running save battery powered devices. I like to keep it as simple and spartan as possible. Once my kids are off and I'm retired, my dream would be to live in Alaska and survive on a woodburning stove in cabin in the middle of the wilderness where it is eat or be eaten...and never hear the terms "redundant" or "disaster preparedness" again.

I am retired IT so I know from where you speak. When I worked I was network/desktop support but not in charge. When I retired I did set up my system with backups and redundancy but only in a somewhat limited fashion. Just enough to get by. Since I have no kids and live in the country already and away from people I already am in that position.

 

[ChCx2744]

Hugs your chest so tight you get winded twice as fast, in hot weather it makes you sweat a lot more, it begins to stink really bad after a while (You LE and military folks know exactly what I'm talking about, I have to use the old freezer trick like twice a month), it begins to warp into weird shapes after a while...But besides all that, vests do have their place. I'm a firm believer that vest is not a big "S" on your chest and your death is still very possible with a vest on. Besides going out and putting your life at the mercy of a vest, advanced firearm training courses are a better investment. I would much rather be able to move and shoot properly, hide properly, use cover/concealment properly, disarm/fight properly than be able to afford expensive armor and get shot.

 

[MCMXI]

I have a Releasable Body Armor Vest (RBAV) with soft and hard plates front and back but only because I was given it by a project manager at the end of a project in which we were testing MBAVs and RBAVs. I very much doubt that I would have bought one for myself. Kind of nice to have though.

http://nsrdec.natick.army.mil/media/fact/individual/SPEAR_RBAV.htm

 

[mgmorden]

Because you can never be too careful at the office, the bullet-proof clipboard:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/supplies/e769/

 

[gunsablazin]

I have a NATO kevlar helmet that I bought at an army surplus stores going out of business sale. It was reduced from $100 to $45, at that price I thought it was a cool item to own, never actually used the thing. A friend of mine who works for the sheriffs dept. gave me a vest he wore as a rookie, other than to try it on I've never used it either. It's neat stuff to have, and is potentially useful, but as a printing press "operator" I'll hopefully never need it.

 

[84B20]

I have a NATO kevlar helmet that I bought at an army surplus stores going out of business sale. It was reduced from $100 to $45, at that price I thought it was a cool item to own, never actually used the thing. A friend of mine who works for the sheriffs dept. gave me a vest he wore as a rookie, other than to try it on I've never used it either. It's neat stuff to have, and is potentially useful, but as a printing press "operator" I'll hopefully never need it.

In case you missed some of the above posts, I'll repeat. If it is a Kevlar vest and it is older than 5 years don't count on it protecting you, especially if it has been worn by another person.

 

[altitude_19]

In case you missed some of the above posts, I'll repeat. If it is a Kevlar vest and it is older than 5 years don't count on it protecting you, especially if it has been worn by another person.

There is no "half-life" chemical process at work in kevlar so far as I am aware of. Body armor that has never been worn and stored under the right circumstances retains it's ballistic qualities indefinitely (not infinitely, but indefinitely). I'm not sayin you ought to trust your life to just anything, but the 5 year rule is NOT carved in stone. Think of it like your oil changes. Some say 3000 miles, but not all oils are subject to the same abuse and therefor break down at different rates.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

In case you missed some of the above posts, I'll repeat. If it is a Kevlar vest and it is older than 5 years don't count on it protecting you, especially if it has been worn by another person.

There is no "half-life" chemical process at work in kevlar so far as I am aware of. Body armor that has never been worn and stored under the right circumstances retains it's ballistic qualities indefinitely (not infinitely, but indefinitely). I'm not sayin you ought to trust your life to just anything, but the 5 year rule is NOT carved in stone.

No, the 5 year life is not carved in stone, but is when the manufacturer's warranty runs out, or used to be on the first two vests I had. For a while, I bought a bunch of vest panels on ebay for testing, usually not sets, but individual panels as they were often cheaper when not a set, but some sets as well. I used panels as old at 18 years and never had one fail to stop a round for which it was rated. I also found that such panels often still majorly exceeded their rated perforance. NIJ only has panels survive a few shots in a limited space to meet their certification. We found vests often still stopped up to 30-40 rounds with penetration so long as the rounds did not impact on the channels of previous rounds or impact the very edge areas (which are problematic in new vests as well).

Old vests may not be fully up to their origiinal standards, but if in decent shape, they will still perform very well, certainly better than not wearing them.

 

[gym]

If I tried to put one more thing in my bedroom closet, my wife would shoot me. I pass on the vest. I can''t sleep in it so it's not going to do me any good in an emergency. Also with a bad back, they are just too heavy and hard to put on. Especially if someone is breaking in your door or window. It hit 99 today, so the amount of time you could really keep one of those on in this heat is not too long, with no AC. If there was a power outage, it would cost you a fortuune in water to be able to wear one and get anything done. Too many other things to cary. Maybe a portable ground terrestial radar system that could warn you of any moving critter within a given distance, with a switch for sensitivity. Or a motion detector set in a few key spots near the house with a couple of cameras. I would rather go to high ground and let them come on in.
Bullett proof glass is probablly a better idea for the home at night. just on the area where you sleep, and the bedroom door. A high security bullet proof door. If you are buying or building it's a good idea to take that into consideration first.