Bolt Action vs AR Accuracy

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IMO the bolt action will generally win in accuracy when comparing any given class of rifle (box stock from a sporting goods store, custom jobs, low-end, high-end, or however you like to divide them). With this said, I think the margin of victory may or may not be substantial, depending upon your needs.

I can sit here and tell you that I always out shoot my $1,000+ AR-15's using my $800 bolt action rifle, but I have to admit that I can't give you a perfectly fair comparison on this subject, since my bolt gun wears a 10x scope, while my AR's are being shot without the aid of magnification.

But, regardless, I've seen some scoped AR's that can't hold an inch, and some custom job AR's that will shoot around 1/2 an inch. But, I think if you tried comparing the best AR's built to the best bolt guns built, the bolt gun will probably still win (though the margin of victory might be measured in the 0.1" range, or something like that). Does that matter? Depends on your purpose!

One BIG advantage to the bolt gun for range work, in my mind, is that I don't have to chase my brass all over hell and back every time I shoot. I fire, and the brass comes right out in my hand, exactly when I tell it to :)
 
As far as the bullet is concerned, accuracy begins at the chamber and ends at the muzzle.

If you can get a bullet to exit the muzzle at the same velocity, trajectory, etc. Every Time (Think consistency) then your point of impact will be the same. (ignoring wind and exterior forces)

From Chamber to Muzzle on an 18" barrel, 1MOA is a movement of .005" Considering the world record at 1000yrds is? 4.2"? or 40% of 1MOA... The barrel has to move .002" or less between all 10 shots. (this is approximately 50 MICROmeters)

And that's IF we don't consider wind a factor.
 
Eb1,

Sure some bolt gun shooters shoot longer than magazine length rounds, some don't even have magazines at all! You do realize this was a pretty open ended comparison of an AR operating systems mechanical accuracy vs basically any bolt actions mechanical accuracy right? Well the any bolt action can be a dedicated target action, and if absolute accuracy is what you are after that is what one would use right?

Well if we are talking about the most accurate examples of each type of operating system, especially at extended ranges then there is no comparison. The bolt action will win, not because an AR pattern rifle is not accurate it just has more limitations to it. Go ahead and stretch the legs of the most accurate AR you can think of out to say 1200yds or more AR15 or AR10 your pick, now compare that performance to what you could achieve with a bolt action built to the same level of precision in basically any caliber you want since you can find a bolt action that will accommodate it.

Do you think a .223, 6.5mm Grendel, 6.8SPC, or any of the AR10 chamberings will keep up with a .338 Lapua in a precision rifle at 1200 yards?

Even manufacturers that build both precision AR's and precision bolt guns, like Les Baer, pretty plainly offer better accuracy guarantees for their bolt actions than they do for their AR's. That should tell you all you need to know.
 
Well in defining what constitutes an AR I would insist that the very definition must include the capability to feed from the magazine. Otherwise you have a cumbersome and poorly designed single shot rifle with automatic ejection....
 
I don't know. CD, we can agree to disagree. I have found and shot many of AR that will easily put bullets touching and in the x ring at 600 yards without a scope. I'd like to see the same done with an open sight bolt gun using hunter buck horns.
I doubt it can be done as easily.

To me the automatic action of the AR does not hinder accuracy. Neither does loading to mag length if the loads works good at that length.

I have seen bolt guns shoot at best 2" groups @ 100 yards. I am working on a load right now that in my .25-06, and because I pulled one out of the group it is over MOA. Other wise it would have been under MOA @ 100 yards.
As far as a 1200 yard shot goes. I don't know of a .224 bullet that has the weight or the BC to actually hold a group at that distance. Maybe some 6.5 or .308 to .338 bullets will.

That is to me apples to oranges, and takes the action completely out of the picture. If you're shooting a bolt .224 vs a auto .224 then I think you would be SOL with either action.

And cost is of no factor to me. As I have seen and also shot a $250 rifle that put the Kimber next to me to shame.
I agree that the bolt action is an accurate platform, but in today's world it isn't the only platform that can shoot top notch. Things have changed since 1960.
 
At that point I don't think it would qualify as an AR any longer. Once you have made the decision to operate the rifle like a single shot bolt action, you would be far better off just buying and building a single shot bolt action. A much larger selection of calibers for maximum accuracy and versatility will be opened up to you at that point. Not to mention stronger stiffer actions, and a much wider array of stock and trigger options.

In my own mind (and others are free to vehemently disagree) an AR is by definition an auto loading rifle, therefore it must be capable of automatically loading the ammunition it is being fed from the magazine.

Although an AR can be used in a single loading format and many shooters do this, that is not exactly what it was designed for. To give an outlandish example of taking a rifle action and using it in a way that it is not ideally designed for; you could take a single shot bolt action rifle and fabricate some electro-hydraulic device to mount to the rifle to automatically cycle the bolt and drop a fresh round onto the feeding raceway for you. Might be a bit heavy and bulky though.
 
Eb1,

Why would you try to compare an AR15 made for match applications with aperture sights and a hunting rifle with buckhorn sights? Sighting arrangements have no bearing on this comparison.

If you want an apples to apples comparison go ahead and take an AR15 with a match grade bbl, and a match type bolt action with a match grade bbl; and chamber them in the same cartridge. Put the same sights on each one, and then develop the most accurate load for each one possible. I'd wager that 9 times out of 10 the bolt action will win the accuracy contest.

Show me an AR that has won at the national level of benchrest competition against bolt actions. If the bolt has no advantage in mechanical accuracy surely the AR platform would be competitive in the game of extreme mechanical accuracy that is benchrest competition.
 
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I say the question cannot be answered. I have said that earlier in the thread.

I will say take a "Benchrest" shooter with an AR, and I bet he smokes you with any rifle you choose. Because they know how to shoot. I'd say take a Master HP shooter, and he'd do the same. Standing no less.
Your benchrest comments hold zero water. It is a platform they choose to shoot. Nothing more. So the odds are in the bolts favor.

You cannot answer this question without bias. It is not possible.

I am to intellectually dishonest to have this conversation any further.
 
You do mention that bolt actions are the platform that champion benchrest shooters choose, but you equate it to personal choice and not superior performance. Shooter skill does not enter into this argument.

You also assume that I am biased against AR's, but I am not. I like them just fine, I even own one. There was a time in the not too distant past where I carried one around with me everyday in a big sand box and used it on a regular basis. It is a great platform for what it is, but it is not the end all be all of rifles.
 
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No, I think your biased for bolts, and I did not surrender. I just refuse to go forth with the back and forth getting nowhere. It isn't high road to bicker. Maybe you'll learn something from this. If it makes you feel the bigger man that I refuse to go any further with this bickering, then that is your problem you will have to work on yourself.

I am also tired of you putting words in my mouth, and trying to re-post something I posted out of context. It is childish at best. Better to leave than to stoop to your level.
 
i have both and my ar is probably the most accurate rifle i own, but i dont have a high end bolt gun.

i have however seen some old timers at the range with some custom bolt rifles that i cant hang with.
 
I'll let rifle builders that build both very accurate AR type rifles, and bolt action rifles have the final say here in what they are willing to guarantee for accuracy.

GA Precision builds both and guarantees his bolt actions down to 3/8 MOA, and his AR's to 3/4 MOA. Frankly I'd be thrilled with either.
http://www.gaprecision.net/

Les Baer guarantees both bolt actions and AR's to be 1/2 MOA, however closer inspection shows that the AR's are held to 5 shot groups to meet that standard, and bolt actions are held to 10 shot groups.
http://www.lesbaer.com/

These are just two that come to mind that build both platforms, and I expect they make their guarantees based off of what they expect them to be capable of given equal quality of parts and assembly.
 
If we really wanted to play a semantics game we could define an AR as literally any autoloading rifle. In that context we would not be limited in any way to an AR15/AR10 type platform, and could instead be talking about a theoretical platform made specifically for maximum accuracy that happens to self load.

For example an engineer may design a self loading rifle with an extremely stiff action, and long barrel shank or some other method of very rigidly securing the barrel to the action. Freed from the constraints of an AR15 type magazine well, a magazine could be sized to accommodate just about any projectile length desired. We already know that an AR type rifle can achieve consistent bolt lockup so that is not an issue. The only limiting factors I can think of with a clean sheet autoloading rifle made for extreme accuracy would be chamber specs, and if gas operated the degree of deviation in velocity due to expanding powder gas being tapped off to run the action. The chamber I think would present more of a challenge, since the tighter you make the chamber the greater the accuracy potential, but the less forgiving it is of variances in feeding you might find in an autoloading mechanism.
 
You could bypass the Gas system altogether and go with an Electric feeding/extracting system.

At which point you wouldn't be limited to linear mechanical forces via gas/recoil operation.

Also, you wouldn't be limited to a typical MAgazine with springs etc. You could have a gravity fed box that drops a round into the chamber a-la hand feed and the box could be mounted to the sleigh, not the gun, which would eliminate any issues with recoil deforming the rounds.

Basically take a bolt gun and add electronics to it to automate it.
 
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