Bond Arms Derringer questions

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by bikemutt, May 27, 2011.

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  1. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    I recently picked up a used Bond Arms Century 2000 Derringer chambered in .45LC and .410, it was offered at an attractive price and I'm a sucker for cool guns like this.

    I have a few questions for folks here who might be familiar with this piece.

    1. Must the gun be cocked manually in order to fire the first round?

    2. Must it be cocked manually to fire the second round?

    3. Which barrel fires first?

    Thanks.
     

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  2. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine member

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    1. Yes.
    2. Yes.
    3. It depends on which barrel fired last. Every time you cock the hammer it switches between which barrel is fired.
     
  3. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Don't buy a lot of ammo for that derringer -- after the first time you fire it, you'll be reluctant to fire it again.
     
  4. WvHiker

    WvHiker Member

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    I can't imagine that thing could possibly be any fun to shoot at all. I'd give it a go, though. And I don't blame you one bit for buying it, being a sucker myself. Are you gonna carry it?
     
  5. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    OK then, sounds like I'll be having some fun with this one. I imagine it will kick pretty good, luckily .410 shells are pretty cheap.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  6. mr.trooper

    mr.trooper Member

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    I once had a derringer chambered for the 'little' 32 acp... recoil was like a 9mm or better, and It shifted out of your grip with every shot, so you had to re-grip it every time you cocked the hammer.
     
  7. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    I think it could be a good carry gun under the right circumstances. I need to actually shoot it in order to decide. I'm not unfamiliar with lightweight guns with oversized chambering but this one appears to be marking a new power to weight ratio for me. I need to wait until I'm in the woods to try the .410 angle since the indoor range I favor does not allow birdshot.

    A good friend and I like to ride up in the woods and shoot his Judge at an unsuspecting coffee can, the look on his face when he sees this Judge Jr. promises to be be priceless.

    Good memories and bonding aside, we mostly are up in rattle snake country, I'm curious to see how it does if the need arises. The real Judge has proven itself up there, but it's a lot of gun to cart around whether on horseback or ATV.
     
  8. mossberg835

    mossberg835 Member

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    There a great little gun, just swing open the barrel so you can see the firing pin holes and while pressing the trigger ,press forward on the hammer with your thumb and see which hole the pin is sticking out of . It will fire the other hole when the hammer is cocked the next time. (do this with the hammer already down and barrel open)
    As to not buying a lot of ammo , nah. It's a ball ,have fun and be safe
     
  9. KevininPa

    KevininPa Member

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    I used to .......

    ........have a SnakeSlayer in those calibers. It sucked to shoot with those itty-bitty derringer grips but was great with the SS grips that it came with. The Snakeslayer grips had that little extension for the pinky. I liked the 2 1/2 inch shotshells. The 3 incher shot groupings were more like a "donut". .45s had less felt recoil than the shotshells. At least to me. #9s are great for snakes. Have fun. I did with mine but a Ruger Speed Six became available so it got sold to fund the Ruger.
     
  10. outerlimit

    outerlimit Member

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    They're not fun to shoot at all, mainly because you can't hit anything with them, plus the recoil. If the Bond Arms derringers work the same way as the American/Davis models, you have to put the hammer to half cock before you close the breech on two shells, otherwise it will go off when you close it.
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Since you are new to Derringers I'll mention this. DO NOT carry a Derringer with the hammer cocked. I know it's very hard to pull the trigger but even though that's true it's not safe to carry any Derringer cocked. Sorry if you already know this, I just wanted to be sure you were safe.

    I have a small light Cobra Derringer in .38 Special and it's a hoot-to-shoot!
     
  12. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    All great advice, I can't wait to shoot it, tomorrow holds some promise.
     
  13. Ole Coot

    Ole Coot Member

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    I won one on a tipboard for a dollar, took a look at the little 38 and sold it back to the guy to run off again. I can't hit with a 22mag and can't imagine trying to hold the 38 on target. Good Luck
     
  14. VA27

    VA27 Member

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    M2 nailed it.

    I had one in 40 cal. Loads of fun to shoot, once you figure out the trigger pull*. I traded it off because it wasn't a .410.

    *The trigger will be a real 'grunter' if you just pull straight back, like you do with every other trigger on the planet. If you practice pulling down and back the trigger becomes more manageable.
     
  15. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I don't find a .410 all that hard to shoot. I have a very small double barrel .410 shotgun/Derringer and it's not bad at all.

    DD_410_1.jpg

    DD_410_2.jpg
     
  16. Classified00

    Classified00 Member

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    I have a Bond Arms Cowboy Defender in .45/410 and I love it. It's not my idea of a primary carry gun but it would work in a pinch. Those who are warning about the recoil have obviously never actually fired one. It weighs almost as much as my SW 36 and has less felt recoil then an Airweight J-Frame. It's plenty accurate out to 7-10 yards. When I take it to the range it often gets attention from other shooters and I've let many fire it. They seem to enjoy it :cool:

    Pics1ksskddhg011.jpg
     
  17. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Be careful with the .410 loads. A few years ago, a good friend and I were shooting his .410 derringer, and velocity was so low that bouncebacks off the plywood target holder were a real hazard. Maybe things have improved since .410 loads for handguns have been developed.
     
  18. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    No, things have not improved. I had the same thing happen to me when shooting #6 shot from the above double. I couldn't believe the shot was bouncing back and hitting us on the line!!!
     
  19. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    Well, I ran half a box of 45 Colt through today, the hand transplant is scheduled for tomorrow morning :)

    Just kidding, the kick was less than I thought and I did hit the paper at 7 yards a few times. A few other shooters stopped by to watch. She puts out quite a puff of smoke for sure.

    My wife fired one round and handed it back, "that's enough for me".

    Next up will be .410 which will have to wait 'till I'm back in a rural area.

    VA27 has the trigger pull right.
     
  20. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I've got a Snake Slayer IV. I bought it more as a novelty gun than a carry gun, though it does drop in the pocket of cargo shorts very readily. Recoil with the .410 3" shells is stout, and a bit painful. If I go through a box of 20 shells in one session, that's a lot. .45 isn't bad at all. I consider that gun for point blank situations only due to the low velocities of the buckshot. I figure at ten feet or less, even slow buckshot is going to do some damage, or at the very least blind an attacker long enough to get the second shot off. I keep one chamber loaded with #4 buckshot, and the other with 000. It has become my door answering gun if there is an unexpected knock.

    Federal recently came out with some .410 shells specifically developed for handguns. They seem to pattern well, and the velocities are supposed to be higher, but I haven't chronoed any. Even if the gun isn't real practical, it's a great conversation piece, and just plain fun to own, so enjoy.

    I call mine the prosecuter since it's smaller than a Judge, but man is it a better looking gun than a Judge.

    One last thing. Firing stouter loads out of the bottom barrel helps deal with the recoil a bit.
     
  21. Guns and more

    Guns and more member

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    1. yes.
    2. yes.
    3. Look at the hammer as you cock it. There is a cam that moves up and down alternating barrels. They recommend you shoot the bottom barrel first, as this puts the recoil more in line with your wrist.
    I have the Snakeslayer IV, and it's fun to shoot...... some. The piece of the frame behind the trigger comes back and smacks your second finger between the knuckles.
    Wear gloves, I didn't.
    It's a cool "niche" gun, great for the bedroom or car.
    Heavy for carry considering it's only two rounds, although those two would be nasty.
    I'm considering buying a second barrel, like in 9mm.
     
  22. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    I like the concept of using it for a car gun. Up to now I've kept an LCR in the console but it's past due for a promotion. I notice Wal-Mart has quite a selection of .410 designed for self-defense in stock, I'll pick up a few samples and test them out next Friday up in the woods.

    The Judge, at least for now, is in a class by itself. On the plus side, once the ammo's been exhausted, it's still a decent club.
     
  23. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    I know this wasn't the best patterning board but it was there and free. This was from 2 shots at 10'+/- with 3" .410, #6 shot shells. I think this would get the job done on a rattler.

    I've decided to keep it as a woods snake gun for now. Met a leather maker this week who agreed to make me a custom bandoleer with a pocket for the Bond.
     

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  24. VA27

    VA27 Member

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    I'd like to see a pix of the bandoleer when you get it. Sounds neat.
     
  25. BCRider

    BCRider Member

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    I shot a few rounds from one of these owned by a shooting buddy. With regular power .45Colt rounds it was not much different than shooting a .357Mag from my Model 19 S&W. And of course there was more shift in the hand than when shooting a full size gun.

    Issues with it that make it less than an ideal gun for actual accuracy are many.

    • The grips make it hard to hold consistently from shot to shot. Although, with practice and familiarization this issue can become minimized to where it isn't an issue.
    • THe trigger pull is HELLA stiff and hard to pull. It makes it really tough to avoid pulling the gun away from POA.
    • The recoil from the lower and upper bores result in widely different POI's for a single POA. The shooter needs to use a LOT of "Kentucky Elevation" allowance between upper and lower barrel shots.
    • It would require a lot of practice to get used to using this gun one handed to pull out, position in the hand and then cock and fire. It's NOT a gun that falls readily into proper position like the more full size guns. As such I see it more as a range toy or, where allowed to carry such guns, as a trail gun or perhaps close in urban self defense gun.

    Having said that it was a fun range toy. And I don't doubt that with some getting aquainted sessions that it could be a good close up self defense gun. But the radically different POI's for the two barrels would make any sort of accuracy at any distance beyond 5 yards subject to a lot of practice. Note I don't say that the gun is inaccurate at longer distances. The gun is fine. It's how it interacts with the shooter that needs the tuning for longer distances.

    Two things come to mind about the Bond guns. First is that there's no reason I can see for the trigger being so hard. This isn't the sort of gun which would be cocked and carried in a defensive situation. The hammer being lowered IS the safety for this gun. So if the hammer would only be cocked at the point of shooting the gun then why can't the trigger be made with a lighter release pressure? I'd be happy if it were in the nature of 6 to 7 lbs. But the gun I tried felt more like 16 to 17 or even more! That's the big one.

    The other is that it would be quite sweet if the rear sight were modified to have each side of the rear blade sized to different heights rather than the usual straight across sight. In use the front sight would be centered in the notch like normal but for the one barrel you'd level the top of the front sight with one side and then level it with the other side for the second shot. Needless to say that this would limit the gun to firing a restricted number of bullet to powder load recipes that give the right time in the barrel to work with the sights. But at least this way the gun could be kept simple yet the potential for accuracy from each barrel would be enhanced. The key then would be to just keep the hammer cocking in synch with which barrel you expect to fire next. If this were done I suspect the shooter would soon get used to using "left side first, right side second". It still wouldn't be a target shooter's dream gun by any means. But it would greatly enhance the range day fun if you could actually aim and hit the targets with BOTH barrels instead of one decent shot and the other being a WAG (Wild Assed Guess).

    With a lighter trigger and some sort of tricked up sights to make it easier to get the right elevation for each barrel it would become a slick gun. But as it sits now it's got too may issues for me to buy one even as a range only oddity. And this is coming from a guy that LOVES his little NAA "The Earl" with the dinky little two finger grips and all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
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