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Border Integrity and Immigration Reform Act

Discussion in 'Legal' started by txgho1911, May 24, 2006.

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  1. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Border Integrity and Immigration Reform Act "Pense Speech"

    I am posting this as it may be the only solution allowable by todays Congress and President.
    Also for Indiana residents. This is comming from/through one of Indiana's best legislators we have in DC today. It may be high time to recruit him through all the proper channels or not to run against Evan Bayh. As far as I have reviewed his voting records he is conservative and not just a republican.

    Rep. Mike Pence
    Border Integrity and Immigration Reform Act
    May 23, 2006

    I agree with the President that a rational middle ground can be found between amnesty and mass deportation, but I disagree with the President that amnesty is the middle ground. Amnesty is not the real rational middle ground. In the coming days I will introduce the Border Integrity and Immigration Reform Act, which as I will discuss today sets forth a real rational middle ground between amnesty and mass deportations.

    http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/ev052306a.cfm
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  2. Nehemiah Scudder

    Nehemiah Scudder Member

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    Border Security - Very expensive, but a lot of people seem to think its worth it.

    Economic Security - "incentives for illegal immigration should be replaced with a market-based option for legal tempo*rary labor"

    Explain the market-based option.

    Citizenship Security – "amnesty for illegal immigrants needs to be rejected, and our national commitment to welcoming and assimilating legal immigrants strengthened, with the goal of making them Americans."

    Is this shortening the wait list? Because it sounds like it. Not judging it yet, but that's my impression.
     
  3. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    There is a "rational middle ground?"

    Between committing cultural suicide and moral courage?

    No, there isn't. There is only lying and expediency.
     
  4. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Read the speech

    Mike Pense has spelled out in the speech that amnesty is not a part of this legislation.
    and
    He inclues a description of a time table for progress.
    Several points are mentioned in the speech such as english proficiency.
    As for this thread. Do not hyjack this thread with rhetoric. If you do not read the speech linked please do not contribute to this thread. As some will read please share your thoughts on this. We do not need to force a lockdown on every .gov reform thread on THR.
     
  5. Desertdog

    Desertdog Member

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    The Pols are always saying, "If it saves one life it's worth it."

    To my way of thinking that if 250+ illegal aliens died in the desert last year and there has already been quite a few died this year, a wall should be worth what ever it cost, for the lives it will save.

    A large wall along the Isreal border seems to work for them.
     
  6. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    I heard Pense try to defend this on Hannity today. Not amnesty? Please.

    The most interesting and revealing thing that Pence had to say was that there are simply not enough votes in Congress to mandate enforcement-first legislation. What he meant was that we'd better learn to swallow some form of "comprehensive reform." And make no mistake about it: "Comprehensive" means AMNESTY no matter how pious and noble the rhetoric.

    We don't want "a rational middle ground" when that means valorizing the illegal behavior of both immigrants and employers. You do understand moral integrity in Indiana, I presume.
     
  7. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Read the speech

    I am in Indiana and Pense is in a fire to answer to in his dist when things are not right.
    I missed the Hannity segment and for what I heard afterward it sounds like Hannity did not read the speech. Whatever the bill looks like I doubt it will include conflicts with his speech. Hannity knows Clinton. He does not know every rep in Congress.
    The senate is not picking up the house bill for a vote. They seem to have problems with legislation that doens't originate in the senate. The bill as described sounds a whole lot better than anything the senate can create.
     
  8. gbran

    gbran Member

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    The senate will settle for nothing less than keeping and making the current crop of illegals legal and letting more in. A brilliant way of solving our illegal immigration problem in their minds. Pence makes some good points, but trust me, nobody's gonna go home.
     
  9. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Are we granting amnesty to murderers? Are we granting amnesty to rapists? Are we granting amnesty to felons in possessions of firearms? Are we granting amnesty to people with home-made machine guns? Are we granting amnesty to tax cheats? Are we granting amnesty to shoplifters?

    Oh. I get it. Amnesty is only for illegal aliens.

    Okay. No amnesty for Republicans, then.
     
  10. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    Amnesty deferred is still amnesty.
     
  11. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    A non-amnesty policy means everyone who came here illegally is permanently barred from future citizenship and any fruits of illegal labor. It doesn't mean rhetoric about "family values." It doesn't mean flapdoodle about "putting down roots." Mr. Bush, weeds put down roots, comprende?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2006
  12. wingman

    wingman Member

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    What a joke, we do not enforce present immigration laws should I believe
    we will in the future.
     
  13. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Longeyes,
    I agree with you about citizenship for any breathing human in country illeagally.
    Unless the senate can be turned as gbran stated it will never work that way.
    I plan to call my senators and tell them to consider Penses work on this. Short of a constitutional correction for these and many other gov missdeeds the senate will continue to ignore us. Give them a way out they may help themselves off the rope instead of just a job.
     
  14. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Member

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    I dare you to step over this line
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    Um ... okay, I dare you to step over THIS line
    --------------
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    Well, then, I DOUBLE DARE you to step over THIS line
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    Repeat, until Spanish is the national language
     
  15. LAK

    LAK Member

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    What longeyes said.

    And this is yet another manifestation of the incremetal creation of the new Pan-American Union. A Pan-Am state.

    Two steps forward, one step back. And so on.

    ---------------------------------------

    http://ussliberty.org
    http://ssunitedstates.org
     
  16. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    one response to Pence

    National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein
    The Privatized Amnesty Pencedream

    Mike Pence is one of truest free market believers in Congress. Exhibit A: When asked about immigration reform, he said, "It’s a safe bet the Senate will produce a bad bill on any topic."

    But that was a few weeks ago. On Wednesday (May 23rd) the congressman convincingly demonstrated that Senators are not the only ones who don’t get it. At a Heritage Foundation speech that afternoon, Pence presented what he called "a rational middle ground…between amnesty and mass deportation" that would, in effect, reward illegal aliens for breaking the law.

    Pence’s plan is essentially the Kreible Foundation’s guest-worker plan, which requires illegal immigrants to leave the United States and then apply for re-entry.

    While acknowledging the essential nuttiness of expecting illegals to obediently trot off for a return trip to Mexico—oddly, no other country seems to be mentioned—Pence insists private sector competition can speedily vet re-entrants:

    "Private worker placement agencies that we could call ‘ Ellis Island Centers’ will be licensed by the federal government to match willing guest workers with jobs in America that employers cannot fill with American workers. U.S. employers will engage the private agencies and request guest workers. In a matter of days [my emphasis!], the private agencies will match guest workers with jobs, perform a health screening, fingerprint them and provide the appropriate information to the FBI and Homeland Security so that a background check can be performed, and provide the guest worker with a visa granted by the State Department. The visa will be issued only outside of the United States." [Renewing the American Dream: The Real Rational Middle Ground on Immigration Reform, May 23, 2006]

    As usual with guestworker proposals, there is no mention of price—meaning that American wages will be undercut.

    Nor, of course, is there any attempt to deal with the Fourteenth Amendment problem, meaning that guest workers will be having U.S. citizen "anchor babies."

    But putting these fatal details aside, can Manpower, Inc., Kelly Services, and their clones—along with newly minted agencies spawned specifically in response to the guest-worker business—really manage a guest worker program? Can they complete the worker visa process "in a matter of days"?

    Needless to say: no.

    Capacity: Although the temp agency industry is larger and more sophisticated than it was when the "Kelly Girl" made her 1946 debut, it currently employs only about 4 million workers—or less than one-third the 12 million illegals expected to line up for visas. (Or maybe 20 million, if D.A. King and Bear Stearns turn out to be right).

    Pence’s dogmatic vision of employment-agency entrepreneurs filing the gap is fetching, but improbable. Agencies are particularly hard to start because fees are usually paid only after their workers have been on the job for 30 days, meaning that significant working capital is needed.

    Conflicts of interest: Private employment agencies usually bill clients on the basis of how many individuals they’ve placed with them. Volume is crucial; attention to legal requirements is not. Already, the RICO lawsuit against carpet maker Mohawk Industries accuses the company of conspiring with employment agencies to hire undocumented immigrants from Mexico. Mohawk’s employment agencies used forged Social Security cards and recruited workers on the border at Brownsville, Texas, the suit alleges.

    Similar suits are pending against Tyson Foods and Wal-Mart.

    Fraud was rampant when the last amnesty was run by the government. A guest worker program in private sector hands is a positive incentive for more.

    Three private hiring centers similar to those in Pence's plan were put into place in southern California in the early 1990s. Their goal: get those unsightly gaggles of day laborers off the streets of Malibu. They may have cleared the streets, but a UC San Diego study found that the most successful of the three was (surprise, surprise!) the one that did not screen workers for legal status. In effect, private companies used government funds to help illegals find jobs.

    A sign of things to come.

    Background Checks: Sure, the internet makes them fairly cheap ($50) and speedy. But it’s far trickier to do a criminal records check—no national database is available, and state and local prison systems vary as to how computerized they are.

    (And for Homeland Security to make its database available to private employment agencies is an obvious security nightmare.) That leaves tedious, extensive interviews of former coworkers, neighbors, and associates.

    Security checks—whether performed by Homeland Security or private firms—are unavoidably time-consuming and expensive…if done right.

    This "rational middle ground" of a one-week amnesty turnaround is a silly and dangerous pipedream…or maybe a Pencedream.

    Edwin S. Rubenstein (email him) is President of ESR Research Economic Consultants in Indianapolis.
     
  17. Sinsaba

    Sinsaba Member

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    If someone wants to come to this country, become part of this country, make this country his/hers, then I welcome them. I welcome them to follow the rules and laws we have in place to become an American. This is what has made America great.

    However, this is not what the unlawful entrants into this country want. Look at any report from any source; what do they say they want. They say "we just want jobs". They don't want to be part of us, they just want to suck at the teat of our prosperity.

    1) Close the border with a physical barrier. Once they are in this country the bleeding hearts won't let us get rid of them.

    2) If for whatever reason (needed skill etc.) we allow a foreign national to work in this country require tamper proof biometric id cards. Do not allow them social security cards (they won't be around long enough to use them) but *DO* collect social security etc. That's the fee they pay to work here. Give the ones already here legally 3 months to get these id cards.

    3) Crucify employers that hire illegal entrants. 1st offence fine them half the value of their business. 2nd offence fine them 75% the value of their business. 3rd offence 10 years prison and loss of their business.

    We won't have to deport anybody en masse, if they can't work they will have only two choices. Go home or make a living of crime. Once they are caught for one criminal thing make them work on the wall project for a year and ship them back to their country.

    I know this could never be passed. I know it doesn’t sound very charitable of me. Given what’s happening to this country I’m not in a very charitable mood right now.
     
  18. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    A temporary worker should not have to pay Social Security, nor should the employer have to pay his share. That is unless one wants to treat it as a tax. One would need to be here on a citizenship track to both gain entitlements and be expected to make contributions to benefit plans.
     
  19. ken grant

    ken grant Member

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    Laws

    What makes anyone think that any new laws passed will be enforced?
    The existing laws would do the job if they were enforced.
     
  20. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Interesting comment. Edwin Meese, Reagan's attorney general, says the senate's legislation is remarkably similar to the law passed in 1986. Provisions are almost identical. Reagan failed to enforce it, Bush failed to enforce it, Clinton failed to enforce it, and now Bush the Younger fails to enforce it.

    Classic example of insanity. Doing the same thing time and time again expecting different results.
     
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