Bought ammo

[FROGO207]

Seeing that I have a goodly supply put away for rainy days and presently only replace what I use to maintain a set level I do not plan on adding more to the stash. I have been monitoring the local area gun stores/WM/etc. since the latest shooting. This time there seems to be no run on anything to speak of. Heck even the .22 ammo is still in stock at WM today. Traffic at a couple LGS was at normal levels as well. I think that the gun using public is fed up with the crap we have been going through and collectively said "enough is enough" to the extent that as a group we are not going down that road again. Yeah if anything is impacted it will be the bumpfire stocks IMHO. You watch and see if it is not political suicide to try to pass gun restrictions these days. The general public is starting to smarten up about things and even those that would stir up trouble in the media/government are being called on the carpet so to speak when they do. It's about time we as Americans started to think for ourselves again rather than follow the latest fad or whatever. Oh yea I do buy ammo/components when it is on special and priced low compared to average, but no panic from me. YMMV

 

[FL-NC]

I purchased 1000 rounds each of 223, 9mm, and 5.7 Monday AM. I shoot many other calibers, but I knew that these MAY become scarce, and I knew they would get used eventually anyway.

 

[bannockburn]

No ammo buying happening here. Recently I did an inventory of all of mine and find that I'm pretty well set with .22LR, .380, 9mm., .45 ACP, and 7.62x39. Could use a bit more .223 but nothing I feel I have to do right this second. Like others here I have purchased most of my ammo over a long period of time, usually when it's been on sale or at a price that was too good to pass up on.

 

[kcofohio]

I, along with many here, have been stocking to weather any political storm that may brew abead. Mostly reloading components and 22.

Save a personal disaster or, if I come across that Hi-Point 10mm carbine, I should be set. I have no urge to hit the ammo counter.

But if you're needing to stock, stock.

 

[bassjam]

I learned my lesson during the last administration and now keep enough in stock to last me a few years. I have no reason to buy ammo right now and contribute to panic buying.

 

[dekibg]

Still got 4k of 7.62x39 I snatched up pre-Bubba. It was going for $89 a case back then. This is my emergency war reserve though. If I want to shoot my AKs I'll buy a couple boxes and shoot that up. If none is available, well I don't shoot.....

I am similar, but my ''war reserves" - the ones that I am not touching, are smaller, around 500 rounds per caliber I own ( except of 22LR which I have a little bit more).
My way of thinking is that in case of total social breakdown or ''war'' as you called it, there is no way I will last that long to fire more than 500 rounds per gun/caliber to defend myself.
if I have to fire that many rounds, that means that I am trying to fight off a lot of enemies that are also armed and they will just overwhelm me.
Also, practically, who can schlep around more than couple thousand rounds of regular ammo (not counting 22LR) ?
I don't have a cabin in the woods, gateway location, etc - just my regular residence that If i need to evacuate, ( I am sure that) I will need to take some other necessities as well, not just crates of ammo.
I used to buy a lot of ammo before, now I just buy what I need for a range session and a little bit of extra, and also not counting the ammo for home defense.
EDIT :
p.s. I know that last year, the same day after a tragic shooting in Oregon, there was a member here who started a new thread named something like:
" I spent all paycheck on ammo today !"
What do you say to something like that ?
" Wow ! Good for you ! I am happy for you that you have that much disposable income!"
or:
"And ? What did you accomplish, except inducing to the panic?
That very same ammo will be on the shelf there tomorrow, next week, next month..."

 

[Joshua M.]

I did not buy anymore...I have a small shop in NW OH, so i keep an eye on supply. From what i have seen in the last 3 days there is way more AR's and ammo then a shortage will eat up in a few weeks. My main distributor has well over 1000 sub $600 AR's in stock still as of this morning, as well as a LOT of cases of .223/5.56.

 

[brewer12345]

Looks like some people are blinking. Yesterday palmetto had 30 lowers in stock, most with free shipping. Today I see about 20 with free shipping almost entirely gone. I guess a lot of the unsold inventory is finally getting moved.

 

[RA40]

I'd like to buy more with the pending CA ammunition restrictions. We'll see what counter lawsuits arise when those dates actually approach. When internet sales cease the cost will go up fairly significantly. I've been collecting brass with the intent to reload in that regard.

 

[Walkalong]

Hoarding means you are the only one who has it and is not letting anyone have any.

I happen to know that many of our members who were wise enough to be prepared for the last round of craziness sold at/around cost and even gave away ammo to needy folks. They also did the same for components.

Count me among those who have been prepared ever since the small shortage we saw after Bill. Hoarder? Planner? I'm an old Boy Scout who was taught to "Be Prepared".

 

[H&R Glock]

Life, Liberty, and the persute of happiness! Do what you think is right. Your business not ours.

 

[Slamfire]

Let me recommend stockpile brass, primers, bullets, but don't load the stuff. Gunpowder has a unpredictable shelf life. The last long posts I created on this is here:

Ammo storage
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ammo-storage.826681/#post-10655071

For example, Federal says there is a 10 year shelf life on ammunition. This is very conservative, but, they are not warranting it forever.

Federal Ammunition :
http://www.federalpremium.com/company/faq.aspx
What is the shelf life of ammo and storage?

Store reloading components and ammunition in a cool, dry place, protected from direct exposure to sunlight. If stored properly there is a 10-year shelf life on loaded ammunition.

Hodgdon provides an excellent short summary about this:

Gunpowder stability

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/safety/gunpowder-stability

Smokeless Propellant
The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.


To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.


The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants.


Under proper storage, modern smokeless powder can last for decades. However, this does not mean the reloader can ignore how the powder is stored, particularly if in an uncontrolled environment such as a garage or storage building.

Did you notice that Hodgdon says gun powder can last for decades? They did not say centuries or millennia. Decades is a very reasonable estimate but sometimes the stuff goes bad sooner: I estimate this stuff had been out on the market for eight years before it started auto combusting!





Anybody remember buying cans with these labels?



Ammunition I loaded in the late 80's and middle nineties with fresh IMR powder is cracking their case necks. So is ammunition loaded with VV powder that I purchased in the mid nineties.



Others have had similiar issues with twenty plus year old ammunition:


Interesting powder/ case deterioration

19 Oct 2015

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10053907&posted=1#post10053907

I had a box of 270 that was loaded sometime in the early 90's from relatively new brass. The loads were 55 grains of IMR 4831 under a Hornady 130 spire point. I fired a few last weekend and noticed smoke from the action on the first shot. Every case split and dumped some (but not a scary amount) of gas into the action. After the third shot I concluded something was wrong and brought the remainder home.

I pulled them all and noticed that all of the billets were blue/green and corroded. Some of the powder grains were actually blue as well, and when I dumped the powder out of the container there was some weird azure dust left behind. So it seems clear the powder (orange metal can from the early 90's) is deteriorating and corroding the bullets. I weighed all of the charges and none were overloads.

Most interesting was the effect on the brass. Every single case exhibited cracking somewhere after the bullet came out. Some were neck cracks but there were also a bunch that cracked at the shoulder or lengthwise along the body. It seems like whatever was out gassing from the powder that made the brass exceptionally brittle.

I'm glad I stopped shooting them and pulled them down. All of the components went in the trash where they belong.

You are better off not loading brass shells until you need to. Old loaded ammunition can and does cause pressure problems because the gunpowder inside creates pressure spikes.



These can be your fingers:



You can inspect, in fact, you should inspect your powder often. Bust the seals and sniff. If you ever see something like this red fuming nitric acid gas, get the stuff out of the house as that jug is going to autocombust.



If the powder goes bad in the jug, you have not ruined the brass. This ought to be obvious. Unfortunately you there is not much you can do about rimfire ammunition. That is going to come loaded. Keep it dry and cool till you shoot it, but really nothing you can do other than that is going to change its shelf life one way or another. The stuff does go bad. I remember talking to Joe Farmer, Senior Small Bore Champ. The guy was in his 80's, like 85, and he had Eley from the 1960's It was bursting case heads. He did not know why, and basically, did not want to hear what I told him about ammunition shelf life. No one does. But, someone ought to tell you all.

 

[berettaprofessor]

No recent ammo here. Reloading supplies are good and I'm set for 22LR.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Man, Slamfire, that's quite a bit of evidence for short shelf-life AND/or you must live in a warm climate. How then, do all the stories of people shooting WW2 ammo just fine fit in? Don't believe them?

 

[1911 guy]

Your buying habits should be based on consumption, shelf life of the item and projected future income. I go through ammo at a somewhat consistent rate, it has a long shelf life and I'm never going to be a millionaire. So I always buy a bit more than I plan to shoot. Over several decades, that's accumulated quite a bit of "excess" because I plan to have nearly zero ammo expense in my retirement, but keep right on enjoying the sport like I do now.

 

[Walkalong]

Let me recommend stockpile brass, primers, bullets, but don't load the stuff. Gunpowder has a unpredictable shelf life.

Good advise. Although I do like to keep a reasonable amount around for a rainy day. Just rotate it. Use the old, replenish with new.

I had a jug of N-130 go bad in less than 10 years. I still have the N-133 bought at the same time. It's fine. I have H-322 older than that. It's fine. But gunpowder can and does go bad.

 

[Fishslayer]

People need to define what exactly an ammo hoarder it. IMO an ammo hoarder is one that buys up all the anno they can find and tries to re-sell it for a huge profit during a crisis.

That's not a hoarder, that's a flipper.

Hoarding is a mental disorder. I haz it. I also haz a boatload of ammo.

In my defense I live in Kalifornistan and every year the critters throw a diaper load at the wall to see what sticks. Starting 2018 all our ammo sales will have to go through an FFL, just like guns. Thankfully I've been panic buying since 2009.

 

[stchman]

I didn't buy any extra ammo because I do not like to shoot, therefore, I do not want to spend money for something I don't need. I did hoard 200 cartridges for my big game rifle because it is odd caliber and if they stop making it I will have some to hunt with.

If you don't like to shoot, then why waste your money on guns?

 

[dekibg]

If you don't like to shoot, then why waste your money on guns?

b/c to him, gun is just a tool to harvest the game . he is hunting for the sake of hunting , not for the fun of shooting
no reason to bash him over that.
I never cared about hunting, I like guns as a hobby and for self-defensive purposes.
we are all diferrent

 

[Guitarmike]

That's not a hoarder, that's a flipper.

Hoarding is a mental disorder. I haz it. I also haz a boatload of ammo.

In my defense I live in Kalifornistan and every year the critters throw a diaper load at the wall to see what sticks. Starting 2018 all our ammo sales will have to go through an FFL, just like guns. Thankfully I've been panic buying since 2009.

Fishslayer,

Sorry to point this out to you but the definition of a hoarder is simple. It is someone with more ammo than you.

 

[jonnyc]

I'm 57. I fully expect to shoot regularly for the next 20-25 years. I buy ammo in bulk when I see a good price. If all ammo sales stopped today, I want to have enough on-hand (or reload) to continue for about that whole length of time.
That's not hoarding, it's called planning ahead.

 

[Slamfire]

Man, Slamfire, that's quite a bit of evidence for short shelf-life AND/or you must live in a warm climate. How then, do all the stories of people shooting WW2 ammo just fine fit in? Don't believe them?

You know the Comedian George Burns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Burns drank liquor and smoked cigars every day and lived to 100 years of age. That proves that everyone who smokes cigars and drinks liquor lives to 100. Not!

Ammunition has a indefinite shelf life. Indefinite is often confused by those with confirmation bias as infinite, but indefinite means "lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time." Gunpowder has a very unpredictable shelf life. That is why militaries have ammunition inspectors going through their stockpiles and weeding out the stuff that through age became too dangerous to issue or too dangerous to store.

They were tossing out WW2 ammunition from military inventory 26 years after it was made. This is from a 1969 Insensitive Munitions Symposium



This is from 1970




I have one machine gunner bud who has "blow the top cover" twice with Yugo 8mm from the 1950's.Shoot enough old ammunition and you will encounter pressure problems, you may not recognize why, but you ought to stop shooting the stuff before it blows your gun up.

 

[Officers'Wife]

If you don't like to shoot, then why waste your money on guns?

I really hate to run a vacuum sweeper but I still have one. I really don't like handguns either, yet a Commander 38 Super goes with me nearly everywhere I go. People own a lot of things for a lot of reasons, as the old guy song says- There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy. There's just you and me and we just disagree.

In general we keep enough ammunition to last us for a year. This includes practice, range use and hunting/pest control. Since both my hubby and a certain unnamed idiot that shall remain my brother both reload in a pinch that time frame could be extended greatly. I tend to discourage "panic buying" of anything simply because inventory on hand should be enough to allow to out-wait any shortages.

 

[John Joseph]

In the past I've pulled down old ammo when I've noticed things were starting to go amiss---I hate to do it----I'd much rather shoot it up before it goes "geriatric"
I see no point in keeping unreliable ammo.
Not even for "plinking."

 

[Jack B.]

You guys having ammo and powder going bad could you please state under what conditions is it stored in. I'm not having problems. Maybe it's just not old enough. Nothing over 10 years old. Maybe that's why I don't buy to last a life time. Things change.