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Bounty Hunters - What IF?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Werewolf, Jan 4, 2006.

  1. Werewolf

    Werewolf Senior Member

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    While watching a show that had bounty hunters in it I got to wondering...

    A bounty hunter breaks into your home in a make my day state and you kill him.

    Is it a good shoot?

    Most make my day laws refer to unlawful entry. Is a bounty hunter entering your home unlawfully even if you are a fugitive? Is he entering your home unlawfully if he gets the wrong address (don't laugh - if the police do the same thing they aren't breaking any law) after all in many states bounty hunters are officers of the court.

    Makes one wonder. Anyone (like the lawyers among us) know how a situation like postulated above would be treated? Care to enlighten us?
     
  2. Optical Serenity

    Optical Serenity Member

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    Almost all states have laws to supplement the federal law providing that if a bounty hunter has reasonable means to believe his fugitive is in your residence, he can make entry.
     
  3. JJpdxpinkpistols

    JJpdxpinkpistols Member

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    http://people.howstuffworks.com/bounty-hunting6.htm

    Of course, we could just get rid of Habeaus Corpus, and we wouldn't have to worry about silly things like bail and such.
     
  4. IV Troop

    IV Troop Member

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    EVERY bounty hunter I have had to deal with was a wannabe cop. They always tried to dress and act like plainclothes cops and carried little phony badges to decieve people into thinking they were actually a law enforcement officer. Most were no better than the criminals they were after.
     
  5. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Senior Member

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    If you're already a fugitive to the point you've got a bounty hunter after you, what do you care? ATFOTRAF.
     
  6. Werewolf

    Werewolf Senior Member

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    Hmmm... No definitive answer yet so let's get more specific.

    The bounty hunter breaks into your home. He is armed. He got the wrong address. You confront him and blow him into the next life.

    Is that a good shoot?

    I tend to believe it would be but have nothing to back that belief up.

    Comments?
     
  7. agricola

    agricola Senior Member

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    Yes.

    Even in the UK (so I take it that it would apply to you lot as well) if you honestly believe you are under threat of immediate serious physical harm you can use deadly force to defend yourself.

    Its immaterial what the actual intention of the person forcing the door is; indeed over here we have had at least one case where a Police officer was killed by a known criminal who was found not guilty of his murder for the reason listed above (Keith Fordham's death at the hands of Kenneth Noye).

    However if you knew, or had reasonable cause to suspect that he was acting in a lawful capacity then you would be expecting to make friends with Bubba very soon.
     
  8. DHolland

    DHolland New Member

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    It's not as unrestricted as most people think. For example:

    Tex. Code Crim. P. 17.19 states that bail gent can obtain warrant from court before seeking to arrest defendant, and a judicial warrant is required to arrest with force, Tex. Code Crim. Proc Art 17.19 (Vernon 1977); see Austin v. State, 541 S.W.2d 162 (Tex. Cr. App. 1976). Uniform Criminal Extradition Act requires that bond agent or bounty hunter take defendant before magistrate prior to transporting over state lines. See Landry v. A-Able Bonding, Inc., 75 F.2d 200 (5th Cir. 1996).

    Many states are very restricted. You can get some good state by state information from www.americanbailcoalition.com.

    I believe a quick look at previous cases show that if you are being arrested by a Bounty Hunter in error, and they are using force, you can use the same degree of force to resist unlawful arrest. False arrest by a Bounty Hunter can, and has, resulted in charges of kidnapping, assault, etc. If you are not innocent, then you are SOL. A quick google search for false arrests by Bounty Hunters will show you a large number of cases, both where the Bounty Hunter ends up injured/in jail and a few others where they are found not guilty.

    Myself, if I am innocent, they break in the house to arrest me ... well let's just say I'm not going.
     
  9. f4t9r

    f4t9r Senior Member

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    Thats a good shoot
    If he comes busting in and no backup , well its your word against ....
    nobody hes not around anymore
     
  10. Sean85746

    Sean85746 Member

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    Even if it was the ubiquitous DOG...he gets neutered.

    I don't commit crimes.

    I am a card carrying good guy. My wife is likewise a solid citizen. My daughter, while a terror, is only 21-months old, and as yet...committed no offenses.

    If some so-called bounty hunter enters my house...and is armed...BANG BANG.
     
  11. mbs357

    mbs357 Senior Member

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    Sounds to me like a good shoot.
    By the way, Agricola, your sig line is from Yojimbo, yes?
    Great movie.
     
  12. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    If you read up on the link provided, it does appear that they can only break and enter the skip's residence. They can't enter yours. Even if the skip happens to be your deadbeat brother in law who tells you he's just staying the night and doesn't mention that people are after you...if armed men enter your house forcefully, fire away.
     
  13. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Senior Member

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    Not only bounty hunters....

    About a decade or so ago, a warrant team in Tampa busted the wrong door and the resident shot and killed the first cop through the door. The resident was wounded in the exchange and arrested for murder of a LEO. He was found innocent because he wasn't aware the guy was a cop and acted reasonably to an armed intruder.

    A bounty hunter can only enter the house listed on the bail contract. If you notice, even the Dog asks permission before entering private property. If they know the fugitive is at the location and they are refused entry, they will call the local police.
     
  14. NorthernExtreme

    NorthernExtreme Member

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    If you are in fear of death or great bodily harm (reasonable) it's a good shoot. If you are a fugitive, it is not.

    There was a thread a long time ago on another site that posed the same question but insert Police and take out BH. The Bad guys learned that if they rush a home screaming Police the people inside are far less likely to respond with force.

    What would you do?

    Regards,
     
  15. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    That case might be an important precedent for the Cory Maye case. I haven't followed up on that in a couple weeks...but that's a similar situation. Any chance you've got a link?
    Makes sense. I would think his pay is the same regardless if the guy comes quietly or kicking and screaming, so why take a chance on getting shot? He found the bad guy, mission accomplished.
     
  16. Sindawe

    Sindawe Senior Member

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    Same as with police. If its just a mistaken ID or address, we can talk and sort the mistake out.

    Door kickers will be served a tasty meal of brass and lead.
     
  17. progunner1957

    progunner1957 member

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    +1:D

    Bounty hunters have no police powers.
     
  18. palerider1

    palerider1 member

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    the famous words " it is better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6" comes to mind. if you are a law abiding citizen and someone breaks into your house and says they are a bounty hunter, well, thats a decision that has to be made at that time. do you shoot, or succumb to someone that you dont even know is a bounty hunter. could be a home invasion. you have to make that choice. it is you and your family that are on the line and nobody can make a cookie cutter answer for this question. whatever you do , it is you who have to live with the consequenses.

    i am new to this forum,,,,but i can already see that you, werewolf, like to stirr the pot.....i like that, and i like your pot stirring :)

    palerider1
     
  19. Lupinus

    Lupinus Senior Member

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    Seems like it would be a good shoot. Someone barges into my house, esspecialy with a waepon, I am going to asume bodily harm is intended or will happen if he discovers a person in the house, I will react with as many rounds of 30-30 as needed to stop however many have entered my home untill they are dead or retreat or I am dead. You would most definatly be on trial but unless you are in an extreme sheeply jury pool I would be willing to bed you would get off.
     
  20. palerider1

    palerider1 member

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    30-30 is a good round, but it will go through about 4 walls in your house before exiting the house or hitting a 2x4,,,,,i used to keep one behind my desk at work. we dealt with alot of deviates. i miss my 30-30. i bought an old model 94 from a friend who had the gun in his family for probably 75 years. it was in about 75% condition on cosmetics, and about 95% on mechanics. i bought it for 100 bucks under the premise that if i ever sold it i would give him first dibbs, since it was in his family and he sold it to me because he needed money,,, when i needed money 15 years ago i sold it back to him for 100 bucks. i'll buy another one soon. nice round.

    palerider1
     
  21. gremlin_bros

    gremlin_bros Member

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    in my history of deling with bail enforcement agents (bounty hunters) i have found most are very aware of the possability of just this thing happning. so they usaly try to apprehend the bg someplace public. if they do go to a house they usally have others watch the exits and go to the front door and knock,when the door is opened they identify themselves and state thier purpose for being there. then if the bg is there they usally try to run out the back only to be caught. if the bg dosent run out they ***(usally)*** ask to enter to serch and conform the bg isnt in residence. if told no they have this nasty habbit of just going back to thier vehicle and watching the place and waiting for the bg to exit. i know of verry few times where the agent forcefully entered a residence unless they were in pursuit of the bg and phisically saw them enter. most if not all wear clothing identifying then as a bail agent and try to carry a badge stating such not that it means diddly squat but they do try. i meen lets face it they are needed to do a job in society and are not verry appricated for the service they provide. so most who are awear of this try to be professional about thier busness. my experience comes from dealing with a few bail agents during collage when i was on ride alongs with the local police dept. it was not uncomon for the bail agent to inform us he was there and who he was after and even ask for help with a felon who was known to be violent or armed just try to be as safe as possable.
     
  22. Lupinus

    Lupinus Senior Member

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    This is true, but at the moment it is my primary HD weapon. Not my first choice but the best thing at my disposal.
     
  23. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Senior Member

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    Sorry, no link. Just a local event from long ago.
     
  24. palerider1

    palerider1 member

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    Lupinus,
    its a great gun,,,,keep it for your home defense. mayby there is some home defense round that you can use like the "glasier safety slug" offers. check it out if you want at http://www.dakotaammo.net/ good luck!!!!

    palerider1
     
  25. Lupinus

    Lupinus Senior Member

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    Right now it is loaded with winchester 170 grain silvertip CX2 ammo. It may pass through walls...but I dont plan on missing, course if it takes more then a shot or two I likly wont be able to hear for a week lol.
     

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