THE FULL STORY
JUST SOME UPSET PEOPLE STARTING BS
Browning Demands GUNED To Remove All Links!
GUNED was in the process of finding supporters for advertisement, and made a banner for Browning firearms. We called Browning on 7-10-03 and received a welcomed call from Brady Smith and had a very friendly, cordial 15 to 20 minute conversation while Brady looked at our website.
Here is the email we received the very next day 7-11-03:
Gentlemen,
You recently contacted Browning and requested our permission to link to our internet site through your site at www.guned.com. That request was denied by our webmaster, Brady Smith. Browning seldom grants requests for permission to link to our internet site. While we appreciate your request for permission, we would ask that you appreciate our denial of such request and remove all references to Browning on your internet site. In addition, you are not an authorized user of Browning's registered trademarks which appear on your site. Please confirm the removal by reply to this email within 10 days.
Jeannine C. Dameworth, CLA
Paralegal
BROWNING
One Browning Place
Morgan, UT 84050
(801) 876-2711 x445
(801) 876-3331 Fax
Here is my return email:
Ms, Dameworth
Mr. Smith
Mr. Nelson
Browning Company
I understand the protection of your "mark" and have removed any and all links to "Browning" from our website. My family and I have been supporters of your products for many years, and have always helped to promote you in any way we could. My Grandfather used the BAR in WWI, my Father used your 50cal BMG's in WWII as a waist gunner on B-17's in the England theater, and my other family members used the 50cal in Vietnam as well. We are also members of the same church that Mr. John Browning himself belonged to. I will be posting our emails on the GUNED front page where we were giving you free advertising. We will show all our Members and readers, and for that matter, the whole firearm community in news reports and everywhere else we can distribute this information, your intentions.
We are surely disappointed in your arrogance to the very organizations that try to preserve your business and buy your products, but I guess with your military contracts, you really do not need the private sector anyway.
Mike W. Smith
President
GUNEDâ„¢
C.A.G.E. Citizens Against Government Erosion
Elected Committee Precinct Officer 175
Former Candidate for State Congress
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New reply emailed from Dameworth the Paralegal at Browning 7-11-03:
Mr. Smith,
I am sorry you have chosen to be offended by my email requesting that you remove your link to Browning. Browning takes great pride in its name, products and trademarks. We rarely license the use of our name and trademarks and very rarely grant requests for links on websites. While we appreciate your support of Browning and we appreciate you removing the link to Browning, I would personally appreciate it if you would immediately remove my name and phone number from your website and also the names of Mr. Smith and Mr. Nelson.
Jeannine C. Dameworth
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Here is the contact information I have:
Brady Smith - Webmaster - 800-333-3288 ex.245
Jeannine C. Dameworth - 800-333-3288 ex.445
Do not know Larry Nelson's info.
The Vice President's name is Travis Hall, no contact info
General email link-
[email protected]
I will not reply to this last email, and below are the comments as they come in...
Angel Shamaya
Director of Keep And Bear Arms
Some anti-gun company about a year and a half ago demanded that we remove a link to their site and our analysis of their stupidity. They said we have no right to "link to our website or 'wrongly' describe" them and what they stand for. I told them to eat my shorts, but in unfriendlier terms -- and invited them to initiate a lawsuit, so we could prove, in a court of law and in the court of public opinion, just how stupid they truly are. Link to whomever you please. Nobody can stop you from doing that -- unless they want to legislatively bring on a new law. Browning's webmaster is clearly a dork. Why any entity would refuse free marketing is a mystery. But if it's got something to do with the fact that Browning doesn't want to be associated with the right to keep and bear arms, then every last decision-maker at Browning can kiss my ???.
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Scott - GUNED Sentry of Florida
Owner of Firearmnews.com
Shows you what happens when lawyers get involved. Really, linking is a universal element on the internet, and they wouldn't have a foot to stand on if they wanted to take you to court. You don't have to get "permission" to link to someone else's site, particularly if you're just linking to their main page. The only case where folks who sued won is when Ticketmaster sued Microsoft for what they call "deep linking" in which they were linking to a place deep down in the Ticketmaster site. Ticketmaster couldn't have said that if they'd just been linking to the main page.
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Wil - Owner of Geekswithguns.com
What the hell is their frickin’ problem? Mind if I parphrase it a bit (for space) and link to your page with the full letter?
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George - Owner of Madogre.com
I just read the email exchange that you had with Browning’s lawyers. I’ve been a long time fan and advocate of Browning guns, and I am deeply disappointed. I am also a descendant of John Moses Browning (I have the genealogy to prove it too) and I am very sure that JMB would be more than disappointed, but even angry. Not just with the actions of those representing his company, but in the whole direction his company has taken over the last 10 years. The first amendment protects the freedom of speech, and as such protects a web authors use of a bit of code called hyperlinking to other pages on the internet. Such links are protected as has been proven in the courts time and time again. Because all your doing is basically stating an address of another location, you are not using that company’s property or trademark and as such Browning’s jackass lawyer has no right to ask you to remove such “linksâ€. I am sure knows it, but is just using his position as a big bad scary lawyer as pressure. That request could have very well come from the web master fellow who you made your initial request with. He does however have the right to ask you to remove trademarked company logos, such as the “Browning Buckmark†logo. But looking at your site, I didn’t see any “Buckmarksâ€. I would suggest asking for specifics of what he wants removed. There are 3 guns I have planned on purchasing in the near future. All three of them were Brownings. The Buckmark .22 pistol based carbine, a .22 pistol, and a Hi Power. Well, Charles Daly is making a fine HP now. I’ll just have to get one of those instead. As for the .22 pistol, it’s a toss up between Taurus’ new .22 or a SIG Trailside. Beretta is rolling out a .22 Carbine based on the NEOS pistol and it looks nifty. My point being there are many other fish in the sea that are just as good as Brownings or better. You would think Browning would appreciate any positive remarks about products they could get. If I had as much competition as Browning did, I know I would. But then again, I didn’t go to Law School so I don’t have a giant corn cob up my ???. I do however know that Browning guns have gone downhill a good deal. They are more interested in pocket knives, boots, and pants then they are about the guns these days. You are probably better of without any references to Browning anyways. I’m not buying any.
George Hill
Vernal Utah
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NFHale
Dear Browning:
Regarding your arrogant treatment of a man giving you free advertising - you just lost me as a customer forever. I'd planned on purchasing two new Browning Buckmark rifles this year for Christmas as presents. Well, you can forget about it. I'll buy a set of cheap, used Ruger 10/22s instead. I like the Buckmarks better, but I'll pass on that and buy somebody else's product instead, JUST because of your lousy attitude. Evidently, you need to look back at Smith and Wesson a couple of years ago. At a time when our Second Amendment right is under vicious attack like never before, you above all people should be HELPING. Instead, you take a cheap, legalese slap at a brother-in-arms. You've lost me as a customer, and lots of others too.
Sincerely,
http://guned.com/pages/browning.htm