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BP and gun control

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Donny, Apr 19, 2007.

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  1. Donny

    Donny Member

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    With the recent tragety at VT I have been advising my cartridge gun owning friends and family to buy at least one BP revolver as to still have something to defend hearth and home when the gun grabbers get busy taking away our 2nd amendment rights. No paper work to track you down with. If they come to confiscate your cartridge guns you can just take your BP guns out of hidding and go on. This may sound paranoid but I am a reformed Democrat and I know how they think. Any body who owns a gun is a loose redneck cannon about to explode at any moment. I became a Republican because I want nothing to do with their socialist ambitions.

    Don
     
  2. 6_gunner

    6_gunner Member

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    Not a bad idea. Another option would be to buy from a gun show in order to avoid a paper trail.
     
  3. O.S.O.K.

    O.S.O.K. Member

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    I have a better idea

    How about getting something like a good AK-47 or a AR-15, 6 mags and a case of ammo.

    That way, you can do a thorough job of shooting when they come to take your cartridge guns.

    I really like and enjoy the bp firearms that I have.

    That has nothing to do with the situation though.

    If they can take your cartridge guns, what makes you think they'll not include the cap and ball revolvers?

    Oh, and while they're at it, may as well have a piece of your wife too. Why not?

    Capitulate, appease or submit to any "gun control" and you lose the whole deal. The second amendement isn't negotiable.

    Donny, you have done well to and come a long way to switch parties, but realize that the Republicans aren't imune from political "expediency" AKA "cowardice".

    6 gunner - have you been to a gun show lately? You can only "avoid the paper trail" with "private collections" being sold and many exhibit halls are not allowing them to show.

    We are doing well in terms of 2nd Amendment laws and issues right now, but we need to keep things in perspective.
     
  4. Coyote Rider

    Coyote Rider Member

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    When a SWAT team comes at you to disarm you and you try to play Rambo, not only will they kill you no matter how many of them you take out first, but they will kill your wife and children too. Almost certainly. Remember Ruby Ridge.

    On the other hand, if you let them have their way with you, you're :cuss: ed anyway, and the next step a little further down the road could well be a FEMA death camp. Remember Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Turkey and the genocide of the Armenians, etc. First disarm the people, then kill them. It's what governments do.

    :banghead:
     
  5. O.S.O.K.

    O.S.O.K. Member

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    correct

    see the next reply - guess we can't delete huh?
     
  6. O.S.O.K.

    O.S.O.K. Member

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    correct

    that is why if they decide to declare war on the american citizen, then the american citizen needs to declare war on them -those in power that allow this sh*t to go down. And that means being proactive.

    Lets hope it doesnt' come down to that.

    Be very careful who you vote into office! On all levels of government.
     
  7. mec

    mec Member

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    the black powder guns have been under the radar but they are starting to notice them in England and to a greater degree in Zimbabwe and South Africa where the farmers went to them after the general disarmament.

    Several things have happened in the last couple of decades:

    The number of guns have greatly increased. Part of this is a response to the periods the leftists were in control. Every time they passed a gun law or tried to pass one, people went out and bought everything from semi-auto pistols to the various civilian models of military rifles. Between the Brady legislation and the AWB, the gun shows had crates of AKs and ARs moving out the doors and walls of surplus ammunition for both. People are again buying this type of arm because of the last election and the one to come.There will be a huge arsenal in civilian hands long after western civ has strangled on its on excrement

    Legal ccw with interstate reciprocity has exploded.

    The leftists have realized that they have lost several elections on the gun vote and have had to pull a temporary flip-flop. They no longer control all of the information media and people tend to go with the Second Amendment as an individual right when they hear the arguments. to some extent, this has impinged upon at least some of the media. Ted Nugent lives here. Our local commie rag, faced with much loss of circulation, has given him a column that really resonates with local readers of a libertarian/ Pro-American bent.

    The best thing we can do is keep on buying and enjoying all sorts of guns. The next best thing we can do is exercise good manners so that the general populus doesn't see us as crashing boors and hairy thundereres.
     
  8. hildo

    hildo Member

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    Very interesting reading.
    I guess that if I were an American I would be against gun control as well.
    However I am a Dutchman in Holland and here in our small flat overcrowded country (Holland) we have quite strickt gun control. In general nobody is allowed to have firearms apart from the police and army. In fact, I do not see this as a really big problem, it keeps people that should not have guns, mentally disturbed or otherwise fruitcake's (for general and my own safety) away from them.

    However, if you want to shoot and own guns in Holland, it's no real problem!
    Rules are simple. You should not have a criminal or violent record that is younger than 8 years, that is all that is required.
    Joining a shooting club is mandatory and you must shoot at least 18 times a year. Logical since there is not much use for guns if you don't intend to shoot them anyway. After a year shootingclub membership you can buy your first gun.
    After the second year you can have upto 5 guns.
    This includes any gun you can think of, AK47, AR15 or whatever as long as it is smaller than .50 caliber and it may not a full automatic machinegun.
    BP guns may be of any caliber, no cannons though, you have to have a special license for that... but again it is possible if you enjoy shooting the really big things.

    Antique BP guns are free to have for everybody, except cartridge revolvers made after 1873.
    I have a antique Rolling Block in 50/70, and I can have the ammunition for that as well. In fact I may have ammunition for any antique gun that I own since I have a gun license. No restictions in how many antique guns.
    Although the amount of ammunition that I may have is limited to a maximum of10.000 rounds. More than enough for me. Roundballs or loose bullets are not seen as ammunition.

    So, even with gun control it does not mean you are not allowed to have guns or enjoy shooting, but there are just some safety restrictions. You may never 'carry' a gun on you, apart from your house to the range, westernweekend or so and back again. Licensed guns must be locked up in a safe in your home, same as the ammunition.
    You can get a 'passport' for your guns so you can travel all over Europe to participate in shooting events. You must carry with you a paper from the shooting club to which you are travelling that's says you're invited. Nothing else needed, apart from your cowboy hat ofcoarse:D

    The police will inspect your guns and serial numbers every now and then. Maybe once year, sometimes it takes years before they come by.
    You will hand over the guns to be inspected, they may not take them because they are yours, and your responsibility. If you have no time, no problem, they will go and come back later at a time that suits you.
    They are certainly not allowed to enter your house when you do not want them to!
    I never have loaded guns in my home, and feel safe as it is.

    My only true big problem is... I can't have more than 5 replica BP weapons:( . The rest must be true antiques and they are expensive!
     
  9. O.S.O.K.

    O.S.O.K. Member

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    boorish behavior

    mec, sometimes it takes a little boorish language (intersting) to push awareness into the conciousness.

    It's disturbing to read what could happen to your family in graphic terms no?

    What do you think the families of the VA Tech shootings are thinking/feeling this evening?

    We have a plethora of history and current abuses to draw on for example in addition to this current, backyard event.

    I would rather startle a few people on a bulletin board than face the consequences of not doing so in the long run.

    And just for the record, the leftist/socialists in this country are going to present us as they see fit regardless of what we say.

    People need to wake up and realize just how important it it is to stand against tyranny at all levels.

    Obviously, I feel very strongly about this and it's hard to remain politically correct when speaking about it.

    Oh and hildo - no offense, but compared to the laws and feedom we have here in the USA, your laws are attrocious. I hope your country improves in that regard.
     
  10. DixieTexian

    DixieTexian Member

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    With all this stuff going on the past few days, I just figured out a way to conceal my remington 1858 wearing blue jeans and (of course) my pearl snap shirt. Now, I need to get my CHL so I can carry it without getting wrongly arrested. I will probably carry something else when I get it, but I might carry my remmie every once in a while just because it has to be pretty darn intimidating to see someone pull a revolver with an 8 inch barrel out of their pants.
     
  11. mec

    mec Member

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    Interestingly enough, your remington is not considered a firearm in Texas. Therefore, it is not considered a handgun and there is no law against carrying it. (yep, its right there in CH46). Of course, walking down the street with it will cause an eruption of the " Duck Syndrome." Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, is a duck. and would be a perfect way to get surrounded by police with their guns out.
     
  12. MatthewVanitas

    MatthewVanitas Member

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    Nope, it's not that. It's the fact that over-the-top statements like those reflect poorly on gun-owners, and this is a public forum.

    Who is more likely to get positive results from their statement:

    A: "I believe that Congress should not support initiative XYZ, because it sets bad precedent ABC, conflicts with the 10th Amendment, and will be extremely expensive with no guaranteed results"

    B: "Those ******ers in CONgress are trying to ***** us over again! I'm gonna shoot the first cop I see trying to enforce this *******, the REVOLUTION STARTS NOW!!!"


    I do, however, agree with some of O.S.O.K.'s other points, mainly that BP guns are not a "solution" to gun control, because a firearm bought through a legal FTF (face-to-face) private transaction is equally untraceable, and far more useful.
     
  13. Vairochana

    Vairochana Member

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  14. hildo

    hildo Member

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    O.S.O.K.
    'compared to the laws and feedom we have here in the USA, your laws are attrocious. I hope your country improves in that regard'

    Nah... it's not as bad as it sounds. You must remember that the USA is a different country with a totally different historical background, and a different state of mind between Americans & European civilians because of it.
    We were never allowed to have guns, even way back when.
    The fear in United States civilians, 'I must be able to protect myself'. does not/hardly exist here.
    I see it as a great freedom that my Country allows me to have whatever gun I want to have, even militairy assault weapons. There is not to much plainly forbidden, there are just some rules to follow. It does make me feel safe that not every whacko weirdo can buy one just like that.

    I have travelled the United States in 1991 on my Harley-Davidson that I had shipped to the US, for three months. Been through 41 states and seen a lot. The best trip I ever made. I too got a unsafe feeling, probably because everybody told me to be carefull and watch out for crazy people.
    I wanted to buy a gun for self defense, but in a gunshop I was told it was not allowed for me since I was a tourist. After these three un-armed months and around 16.000 miles I can honestly say that I met al lot of people, black & white, and all were friendly and have never feld threathend anywhere. Although there are some places that are better avoided.

    Don't get me wrong, I surely am not against guns! I am in fact Pro-Gun in a big way. I have aquired 6 of them since I started shooting 1 1/2 year back, and not about to stop collecting any time soon:D
    Even, if I would feel the need to shoot someone I would never use one of my legal guns since the impact of me doing so on the sport would probably be disastrous, like what happened in the UK a while back. I'd get me an illegal gun if I really would feel the need to shoot someone.

    Freedom in Holland?
    I have guns, not for self defense, just for the shooting sport.
    I can travel wherever I want to go in the world.
    Gay man or woman can marry(!), although I am certainly not gay myself I support this. It's freedom.
    Abortion can be legally performed by a docter, if it is done early.
    You can believe in God, Allah and just about anything. I support this although I am a non believer.
    When following very strict rules it is allowed for people to end their lives when they are terminally ill. You will not need to see you loved one die in agony.
    I can buy drugs, legally, in a coffeeshop around the corner. Even harddrugs like cocain and such you may pocess in quantities for personal use.
    The funny thing is that in Holland, statisically, our drugsproblem is smaller and way less violent than the one in the USA.

    Good laws are not too bad. For instance... I would not feel real safe on the public roads if there was no law that would say you require a drivers license when you want to drive a car. It does not mean you are not allowed to drive, there are just some restrictions and rules... a drivers license for one. staying on the right side of the road for another.

    I would not want the laws to change like they are in the USA today since I do not think my freedom, of which I am very fond, would increase.
    But I do understand the American point of view, no gun control, fully. I hope you can understand mine, from my background, as well.
    If everybody would keep an open mind to eachothers views there would be a lot less wars!

    Gotto stop now. Get my stuff together to blast the hell out of that paper target today:D
    Hildo
     
  15. rusty from italy

    rusty from italy Member

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    Beautiful post hildo!
    I quote every single world, i live in Italy, our laws is sligtly more free than yours in a side and bad in one other, i like the freedom of USA people, but i like the minimun control on gun here too!
    In many things in Holland you're more free than us, expecially in gay marriage, eutanasia, drugs, and more, but we have the problem of the catholic churc in Rome, with heavy intromission in political affair of the Italian state :mad:
    Tomorrow i'll make some hole in a paper target with my '73saa and my navy colt,(proudly made in Italy:) ) and i will get lot of fun !
    Now we're really OT:uhoh:

    so long
    Rusty
     
  16. mec

    mec Member

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    Interesting that you mention the crazy people. a friend married a German woman and brought her home to visit. The first thing she saw when she got off the airplane was a crazy person causing a disturbance. Then they went into a department store and there was a crazy woman in the undergarment section. She was pitching panties up in the air and watching them float down.

    Then they came to texas to visit the family and there was a crazy person standing in the middle of the street directing traffic (they like to do that) She had not seen a crazy person while living in Germany. Apparently it is not encouraged there.

    I appreciated the report on the Dutch gun laws. The last thing I read about them claimed that you could own certain guns but had to leave them locked in a gun club armoury unless shooting or hunting.
     
  17. DixieTexian

    DixieTexian Member

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    I am fully aware of that and have considered printing out section 46.001 (think that is the one) of the Texas Penal code to keep with it, but I would still rather avoid the hassel.
     
  18. Coyote Rider

    Coyote Rider Member

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    Probably best to avoid the hassle. After all, you don't want the police to become embarassed when they find the printout while searching your body after blowing your head off. :uhoh:
     
  19. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    And therein lies the problem. :(
     
  20. O.S.O.K.

    O.S.O.K. Member

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    why I flip out over gun control stuff

    I have to tell you guys: I can't stand watchng the "news" about these shootings - they cover everything but the obvious. The obvious being that our campuses and schools are wonderful places for a psychopath to take a gun or two and shoot people until they grow tired of it and nobody will stop them, nobody is armed and the police run around outside the building with AR-15's posturing for the cameras but don't go in to stop the carnage.

    This drives me crazy.

    I have a daughter in college, a boy in high school and a boy and my wife in Jr. High - all sitting ducks for some wacko.

    Then I see somebody talking about how to "get around" a total gun ban....

    :banghead: :cuss: :what:

    Also please understand that I "hang out" most of the time on a board that declares that it is "not disneyland" and if you want to say a four letter word, it's no big deal. Not that I take advantage much of that but sometimes....

    In the mean time, I e-mail fox news and my political representatives and suggest proper behavior and of course, vent some on the bulletin board. :eek:
     
  21. mike101

    mike101 Member

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    In NJ, BP guns are controlled just like any other firearm. Thank God for the internet! There are some out of state dealers who will not ship a BP revolver to NJ, though. Taylor's and Dixie won't.
     
  22. jeep-2

    jeep-2 Member

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    when threads like this are posted on the net, it won't be long before BP guns and black powder are gone after.
     
  23. mec

    mec Member

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    "...before BP guns and black powder are gone after."

    Possibly. A big factor is that anti-gun activists don't know anything about guns and probably don't realize that BP guns are any different than ctg guns. Gun people have convinced the legislatures that BP arms are not a crime factor and had them exempted. Some politicians have even used the "cultural aspects" of black powder arms to trick shooters into thinking tha they are not anti-gun. Birch Bayh rode this pony back in 1968.

    It would probably surprise a lot of gun control advocates to learn that (1) non cartridge guns and replicats exist; and, (2) that they are not considered firearms in many jurisdictions.

    On the other hand, most antigun types are sufficiently uninterested in guns that a post about muzzle loaders/ BP handguns is unlikely to draw their attention.
     
  24. mykeal

    mykeal Member

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    To O.S.O.K

    Posted by O.S.O.K: "...the police run around outside the building with AR-15's posturing for the cameras but don't go in to stop the carnage...."

    I am insulted by that characterization of the police. It is simply untrue. I realize that is your opinion, and you are both entitled to it and to voice it. However, it is disrespectful of people who do a very difficult and dangerous job. Even more to the point, it is disrespectful to the hundreds of policemen and women who have died trying to enforce the law and keep us safe, and especially to their families. You owe them an apology.

    Show me that you have the training and experience to be able to make the difficult tactical decisions in such a situation, and are thus qualified to make such judgments and might have more respect for you. Otherwise, as a result of your statement, I have none.
     
  25. SniperStraz

    SniperStraz Member

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    How about buying in a private sale? Or how about just saying you sold your guns? I know what you're gonna say. "They'll search my house and find the gun even after I say I sold it." Your probably right. In which case having a BP gun won't help because they'll find that too. I've thought about it a few times, but if that time ever comes there won't be any laws protecting BP anymore and even if there are, no one will abide by them. Your best bet is to buy an SKS in a private sale and hide it very well under the tool shed along with 5000 rounds of ammo.
     
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