BP Shotty

[Aaryq]

Howdy, folks.

I know next to zilch about BP guns. I want a BP shotty (I'd prefer a SxS). I want it for the sole purpose of being able to chop it down and have some fun with it (I don't know about using it for hunting and I'm pretty sure I'd have better choices for HD than a BP shotty). Could you point me in the right direction as to where to start?

 

[Snaggletooth]

I dont remember Gen. Cates as a Lieutenant

But I do remember him as Commondant of the Corps. He is the Commondant when I entered the Corps. He came a long way in 9 years. Lieutenant to four star. Not bad. He was a supporter of the rifleman because he realized their importance in battle. When all the bombing, strafing and the Artillery is lifted, its the rifleman who goes in and does the dirty work.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Im sorry. Cates was a Colonel in 42. Not a Lieutenant. WWonce was a long time before that. To late to get my error before I sent It. I request forgiveness from all.

 

[Reddbecca]

Well Cabela's sells black powder shotguns in the neighborhood of $800-$1,000.

Considering the price of the gun itself, and the cost of the gunsmithing needed and the time it'll take, just do yourself a favor, be smart, and buy yourself the howdah pistol for $600.

 

[rcmodel]

Shotty:
1. A bong's carb. The hole that you cover with your thumb and release when yo' want to suck down the chamber full of chronic smoke.

2. What illiterate rap fans call a Shotgun.

3. Also used by almost everyone in multiplayer FPSs.

4. Calling "Shotty!" on someone, is sort of like calling dibs on someone you'd like to "do" in a sense. Normally used in a manner of joking between friends.

rcmodel

 

[arcticap]

There's really aren't any newer production doubles that are cheap enough for most folks to consider buying one just to chop it down. There are some older models like CVA's and others that were imported in small numbers in previous decades that are more affordable and could serve that purpose.
Generally, a person needs to scour gunshops and gunshows for those types of doubles. Sometimes they show up for bid on the internet gun auction sites.
There's older ones to be found at antique gunshows too.
I came across a really nice plain, heavy duty 12 gauge in an area gunshop about 2 years ago. It was imported from Australia maybe during the 70's, had musket nipples and was selling for about $225. One of the locks was stiff, but even that was much too nice for me to ever consider cutting it down. Not many of that model ever reached our shores!
But if you search high and low and find something similar to that, I'll bet that it would make you feel very lucky and content!

 

[Aaryq]

That Howdah looks pretty cool...pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. Has anyone shot one? What's it like? Does it still reload like a traditional blackpowder gun? Has anyone used it for anything other than a fun range toy? Fill me in on the Howdah.

 

[Reddbecca]

From what I've seen the howdah pistol loads like any other black powder firearm, that being a charge of powder is poured down the barrel followed by a projectile payload. Some people use purely slugs, some use buckshot. Not sure it matters really.

As for how it shoots and how it handles, I dunno, best I've seen is the videos on youtube.

 

[arcticap]

Here's a Howdah Pistol range report:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=352589

More feature pictures:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=351807&highlight=howdah

Middlesex Village has a "vaguely similar" .62 DB pistol imported from India:

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/PDBC.SHTML

 

[Pancho]

Aayrq brings up an interesting point. In Ohio you can saw off a shotgun but the barrel must be at least 18" long and the overall length must be at least 28". If you cut the gun any shorter it will be illegal. There must be an exception for muzzleloaders to allow one to own a Howdah. If anyone knows the law let's hear from them.

 

[mykeal]

I thought the shotgun overall length restriction was 26".

The National Firearms Act and CFR 27 are the laws that regulate length of firearms, but the GCA of '68 defines antiques and replicas of antiques that shoot ammunition no longer available (essentially modern smokeless powder ammo) as not being firearms. That would seem to be the path that applies to the Howdah.

 

[Pancho]

Thanks Mykeal, I wasn't sure if it was 26 or 28".
You're probably right about the GCA of '68. It would probably be paranoid of me to think that guns like the Howdah could draw the attention of the gun control types. So far we muzzleloaders and our guns have come under their radar.

 

[mykeal]

So far we muzzleloaders and our guns have come under their radar.

I wish. Unfortunately, New York is considering a muzzleloader restriction. Forum member Rachen can tell you more.

 

[arcticap]

aaryq,
I found an ad for a decent looking 12 gauge double barrel shottie from a private seller. It's a Dixie Gun Works model and the asking price is $350. Maybe you can negotiate. The seller lists his ebay references.
I'll send you the info. by PM.

 

[arcticap]

If anyone else is interested in this shotgun, here's the link to the for sale ad:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2860929

 

[wdlsguy]

There must be an exception for muzzleloaders to allow one to own a Howdah.

It's because of the definitions of "antique firearm" in the Gun Control Act (GCA):

...
(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
...
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
...
18 USC 921

and the National Firearms Act (NFA):

...
(g) Antique firearm
The term “antique firearm” means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
26 USC 5845

You need to check your state's laws as well...

 

[smee781]

It is listed as a pistol not a shotgun. That is probility how it gets by as it is.

 

[mykeal]

Quote:
There must be an exception for muzzleloaders to allow one to own a Howdah.
It's because of the definitions of "antique firearm" in the Gun Control Act (GCA):

Quote:
...
(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
...
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
...
18 USC 921
and the National Firearms Act (NFA):

Quote:
...
(g) Antique firearm
The term “antique firearm” means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
26 USC 5845
You need to check your state's laws as well...
__________________

Ok, I get the definition, but that's only part of the story. It doesn't say anything about the length requirement not applying to an 'antique' firearm.

 

[wdlsguy]

Ok, I get the definition, but that's only part of the story. It doesn't say anything about the length requirement not applying to an 'antique' firearm.

For the purpose of this chapter—
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device.
The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
26 USC 5845

 

[mykeal]

There we go, that's better. Thanks.