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BPS vs. 870

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by WhiteKnight, Apr 12, 2004.

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  1. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Member

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    How do the Browning BPS shotguns compare to the Remington 870s overall? I am talking specifically about the camo turkey models offered.

    I know that Remington 870s are heralded by many to be the "beat all, end all" of shotguns, with extensive aftermarket parts and widespread gunsmith support backing them.

    Yet I can afford a BPS, which from my experience runs a bit higher.

    Are there any common known BPS problems?

    Which is better?
     
  2. 45Badger

    45Badger Member

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    Got both, use both, love both. Both Excellent guns.

    All my hunting pump guns are BPS's. They fit me well, I shoot them well, I think they are beautiful guns. I prefer the older, darker walnut, high gloss guns with assorted engraving (rollmarks?). Really nice fit/finish.

    I grew up and lived many years in "Remington Country" and did not notice the nice stuff being made down the road.

    When I moved to Wisconsin, used Remington 870s were not in every gun store. The one day, I found a SWEET 20 gauge with a vent rib, modified (fixed) choke and a love of all smoothbores made in Ilion was kindled :D

    I've since bought a few more, and shoot them more than the Brownings. But I still hunt with the BPS's.

    The way I look at it, my oldest boy will get the Remingtons, and my youngest (southpaw!) will get the Brownings!

    ;)
     
  3. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    I've had both, several of each. I think the BPS is a better manufactured gun, held to much tighter tolerances and finished very well. That said they are not worth two 870's, not even close. The 870 express is what I would recommend, paint it camo and be done with it. It will last several lifetimes. Turkey models are a gimmick, nothing more. To pay extra for one is absurd.
     
  4. PJR

    PJR Member

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    It depends what you want to do with this gun. Both are solid, reliable guns. The BPS is better choice for for hunting. The bottom eject is very welcome in a duck blind because you are not bouncing hulls off the heads of your fellow hunters. The BPS bottom eject doesn't make it the first choice for clay target shooting because it does not load as easily as the 870.

    The top tang safety on the BPS is positive and sure and I prefer somewhat it to the push button safety of the older Remingtons and much prefer it to the POS locking safety that Remington puts on its guns. (Note, I understand Remington has dropped this abomination but all the Remingtons I've seen around here still have them).

    Remington's quality control has suffered in recent years. Much of the adoration of the 870 (and I'm as guilty as anyone) is based on guns at least ten years old. Newer production isn't to the same standard. I would buy a used 870 but I'm very reluctant about the new ones.

    In the final analysis any shotgun comes down to what fits you and feels best in your hands. Shoot both and chose the one that feels best.

    Paul
     
  5. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    The BPS is a lot of shotgun. It's also a lot of money compared to the stalwarts in the Big Four.

    Be that as it may, I see little downside to the BPS except for the price. Owners of these seem a happy and effective lot.
     
  6. Delmar

    Delmar Member

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    I think the BPS is a fine looking shotgun-whats the drill when it comes to stripping them down for cleaning and maintenence? Anything easy like the 870? I do like the modular trigger of the 870 very much.
     
  7. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Member

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    I've put in a couple straight hours of research over the past 24 hours and this is what I've gathered:

    The BPS
    is prone to rust (not sure if this applies to the camo Duracoated models)

    has a longer pump stroke than most pump shotguns

    has a "top tang" safety, instead of the conventional "behind the trigger" one

    is much heavier than most pump shotguns of its class ("too heavy for clay shooting"). This may be an asset when shooting heavy turkey or deer loads and sitting still all day, but walking 'round fields all day for birds it could become very tiring.

    the bottom eject mechanism is good for hunting in a duck blind, but bad for sporting clays, skeet, trap, etc (the design does not lend itself to quick reloads of one or two shells)

    is significantly more expensive than one of "the big four"

    is difficult to field strip

    extra barrels are expensive

    typically has a gritty, heavy trigger that needs a gunsmith to work it over

    Hastings is the only real maker of Invector-Plus choke tubes for it
     
  8. PJR

    PJR Member

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    I don't agree with all the advice you've received and some of it is just wrong.

    Heavy is good for clay shooting. Most clay guns are in the 7-1/2 to 9lbs range.

    Sadly, so does everything else including Remington.

    That must come as a surprise to Tru-Lock, Briley, Colonial, Teague, Seminole, Rhino and just about every other aftermarket choke manufacturer. All of them make Invector-Plus chokes.

    Don't believe everything you read.

    Paul
     
  9. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    I think the Camo Turkey model is an excellent gun for that type of hunting! Brownings quality is as high if not higher than most any of the pump guns offered in todays market in it's price range and under.
     
  10. 10shooter

    10shooter Member

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    I find the BPS easier to load then the Remington. Never going to say geeze I can't find a good choke tube, lots of choices. Better fit and finish on the BPS, my trigger is good. You pay a little more but you get a little more. I have a Remington 870 and a BPS, like the Remington, love the BPS. I haven't had any issues with rust on either.
     
  11. Mr Kablammo

    Mr Kablammo Member

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    I have BPS in 12 ga and 20 ga, and an 870 in 20 ga. They both excellent guns. In particular the BPS 20 ga gets a lot of compliments. I don't see a downside to the BPS.
     
  12. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I have 4 870's currently, 3 in 12 ga and one in 28ga. I only have one BPS in 10ga. I have two model 31 Remingtons and two model 37 Ithacas, each one a 12 & 20ga. My take on them is this: you heard the old saw " don't s**t where you eat", well may I say it's a poor idea to eject where you feed from. A hole could be machined in the side of the BPS or Model 37 so you could feed a round into the chamber, and then I might not have to say the Remington design is superior. Even with what I said I'd not give up any of my pumps mentioned. BTW I sold off all my Winchestern mod 12 pumps. I DO have a Mod 42 and a 97 though, as my Winchester pump represenitives. The only reason I have a BPS is it is 10ga. and fairly well made.:D
     
  13. Lone Star

    Lone Star Member

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    Gordon-

    Why did you sell your Model 12's? :confused: Most think the Winchester M12 is one of the all-time great shotguns.

    As for rust, looking at a number of used guns, I see more rust on Remingtons than on anything else, and I suspect that their steel doesn't have as much chrome as the other good manufacturers' does. This also applies to their rifles.

    This is a good thread! I had an early BPS that ran a little rough, and the late Don Zutz, a very superior gun writer, told me that the BPS was clubby and sluggish in operation. But I recently saw two more recent ones, and the actions ran much more smoothly. For what it's worth, I NEVER see real gun buffs with the BPS. But don't see many BPS's at all. I've wondered why.

    I plan to buy a shotgun this year, and have narrowed it down to a 870 Wingmaster, an Ithaca M37 (hard to find used), a BPS, or a Remington M1100LW 20 ga. on the slim 20 ga. frame. Might consider the Beretta M391, but Beretta changes models so often that I'm worried about replacement parts some years down the road.

    Lone Star
     
  14. ruger357

    ruger357 Member

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    Have owned both and they are both great shotguns, I just prefer the 870.
     
  15. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    These are my first and second favorite pump guns. Either would be a great gun.
     
  16. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Member

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    This is interesting. Does anyone here care to comment? :confused:
     
  17. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    Because there are not many milled parts on BPS? I sold my finely machined Winchester model 12 collection because : the prices were up at the time, they don't handle well for me and are kinda heavy, they seem to get loose after a while (prolly anything does but the parts that were wearing were MAJOR strucural parts and not easily replaceable).When I was a kid in the 50's Model 12s were THE repeater, but I think the other mentioned shotguns I have are slicker.
     
  18. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd have to agree. For some reason, I haven't seen many on the trap/skeet/SC fields myself. It is very popular with the waterfowl guys here and especially for left handed shotgunners.

    IMHO, they are in the same church, different pews. :)
     
  19. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Member

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    Arrg! With the sides split evenly between
    1) The BPS is great
    2) the 870 is greater
    3) both are great, you choose

    I am having a hard time deciding. :confused:

    And no, I can't buy both (at least not for a few years). :p

    Decisions, decisions. :(
     
  20. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    IMO, the BPS isn't wildly popular because it does nothing that a Big Four pump won't and costs more.

    A new BPS costs about as much or more than 2 used WMs.
     
  21. M Jager

    M Jager Member

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    I guess I'll add my take as well,
    The BPS is a good solid shotgun. The bottom eject is a plus in my book, one less hole for stuff to get into the gun through.
    Yes the blued brownings are notorious for rusting, keep them oiled though and you will be fine. Doubt the camo version will have any problems here.
    Don't let anyone tell you the bps is a bad gun for clays. I used one for a couple years and didn't feel handicapted. In fact I did quite well with it and showed up many shooters with high dollar over unders. Of course I got showed up by others with over unders and even by a guy with an old 870 winmaster. software vs. hardware as dave says.
    The bps is more complicated to tear down but isn't bad with a little practice.
    Try them both and buy the one you like best.
    Matt
     
  22. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Member

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    Well honestly I am planning to purchase the turkey model because it comes with accessories I would probably purchase/install anyway.
    1) sling swivels
    2) drilled and tapped for a scope mount (i can mount a rifled choke tube on it this fall for deer also)
    3) fiber optic sight
    4) an extra-full choke tube

    The barrel length on the turkey model is a 24".

    However I am going to need a longer barrel for everything BESIDES turkey shooting (sporting clays, skeet, trap, waterfowl, etc) and I am planning to purchase an extra 28" barrel.

    Browning offers 26" and 28" barrels, and I will most likely purchase a 28" for whenever I'm not turkey hunting.

    Or would a 26" barreled version be better to begin with? I really just don't like the idea of going without a sling or the reciever being drilled/tapped for a scope.
     
  23. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    I have had them both.
    The only difference I see is that the Browning is better for lefty shooters.
    Never had a problem with rusting on the browning- if your gun rusts, its because you are neglecting it or using it in a saltwater environment.
    I wold say that I prefer the browning over the 870 except that extra barrels are prohibitively expensive if you want to convert your waterfowl gun into a slug gun.

    Yes the 870 express is alot cheaper than the bps, but also is and looks cheaper, and holds no appeal to me. A more fair comparison would be a Wingmaster compared to a BPS- I'd put the two on even ground and then would give the nod to the 870.
     
  24. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    Guess it depends how and where you hunt?

    I shoot more ducks with my 24" turkey bbl than my buddies with their 28 and 30" bbls. See, most of our hunting is in timber and using decoys most of the time. We hunt some big water but still use decoys. I can reach plenty far with a 24" bbl and choose whatever choke I want. It's also a good pheasant bbl.

    Now, for other game birds like quail, etc., I like 16ga & 20ga's so I don't even give thought to that with my turkey and duck gun(s). BTW, I have many Brownings and a few Remington shotguns I have purchased over the years, I leave the 28" and 30" bbls home anymore.

    I will promise you both are very good guns and you really cant go wrong. I am just more of a Browning fan overall. Oh, none of mine have rust! That should never be an issue! Those who care for their guns, dont have rust, Those that don't, chance rust on all their guns!
     
  25. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight Member

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    'cept the Wingmaster isn't camo. :D
     
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