Brass frame revolvers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Another point is that a lot of actual Rebel revolver frames were made of bell metal (another bronze alloy similar to gunmetal tougher than pure brass). Church bells were collected for the purpose. The genuine Rebel "brass" revolvers were often made in simplified versions of 1851, 1858 or completely different designs in small lots of a few hundred.

Gun powder was a problem for the Rebel side in the unCivil War. There was enough cottage industry BP production for seasonal hunting purposes. Military production required drives to collect urine for nitrates (much like WWII drives to collect used kitchen oil to make explosives). The urine collection drives included ditties about patriotic Southern belles raising their skirts to shoot Yankees.


I got into cap'n'ball kits early in the 1970s- "colonial belt pistol", pepper box, deringer, CVA Kentucky rifle.

I mail-ordered a cheap FIE 1851 brass frame .36 revolver and bought used a cheap FIE 1858 brass frame .44 revolver. I remember reading warnings at the time to not use heavy loads in brass framed replicas. I loaded mine light, about 2/3rds the load specified for a steel frame replica. I rammed .375" balls in the .36 revolver cylinder, .452" balls in the .44, topped the chambers off with Crisco. They eventually shot loose. I used them in the black powder cartridge matches at the gun club until I developed BP loads for my Ruger .357, C96 Mauser, and Webley Mark IV cut for .45 AR.
 
I have a couple Brass frames, 51 and 58, but this is probably my favorite one, I picked it up on sale for like $150, and after going to steel, it kind of sat around until one day I decided to play with it after seeing posts on the Avenging Angle Snubs, so I cut it down and shaped the grip a little. I usually run 20 grains in it and it does fine with that load.

medium.jpg
 
Last edited:
hawg said:
I knew Uberti made some brass framed Colts early on. I think that's the first Uberti G&G I've seen.
Click to expand...

At the time (1968) I had never heard of a Griswold and Gunnison. And Navy Arms made no pretense about calling it that.

If I recall correctly, it was advertised as the Army 60.

Yes, I know that is not what it was, but that is what Navy Arms was calling it back then.

And of course, it is a 44. If I recall correctly, the G&Gs were 36 caliber.

Here is a closeup of the Uberti trademark on the frame.


pnNsETJJj.jpg
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
There were .31s and .32s as well, but I cant think of any .44s
Click to expand...

Yes, Remington made some .31 pocket revolvers out of brass but I don't think it was very many. I can't think of any brass .32's. There is one brass 1860 army that was actually made by Mershon & Hollingsworth. It was a prototype for their self cocking device. M&H made the frame and used Colt 1860 parts to finish it out.
 
I wonder how many of these brass framed guns that have beat themselves to death have had their short arbors fixed and what about the cylinder end shake was it excessive to begin with or was it at a minimum?
 
Years ago I set up a pair of brass Armys, 1 each for 2 customers. They were somewhat of a test to see if close tollerances would keep them from beating themselves up. I asked the customers to shoot ”normal 44 loads" and let me know if they maintained there tolerances. Over a good period of time they both reported no change. So,apparently close tolerances with a corrected arbor works for brassers. Close tollerances are always a better setup for S.A. revolvers.

Mike
 
Malachi Leviticus Blue said:
Could be, but by today's standards, hardly any of the manufactures made vary many of anything back then.
Click to expand...

Au contraire. At the height of production during the Civil War, the Springfield Armory was cranking out as many as 1000 rifled muskets per day.

The mid-19th Century was a time of great innovation in mass production of firearms. Techniques pioneered at the Robbins & Lawrence Armory in Windsor Connecticut were later put into use by the likes of Sam Colt and Smith & Wesson among others. In 1874 alone Colt produced 14,800 Single Action Army revolvers.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Au contraire. At the height of production during the Civil War, the Springfield Armory was cranking out as many as 1000 rifled muskets per day.

The mid-19th Century was a time of great innovation in mass production of firearms. Techniques pioneered at the Robbins & Lawrence Armory in Windsor Connecticut were later put into use by the likes of Sam Colt and Smith & Wesson among others. In 1874 alone Colt produced 14,800 Single Action Army revolvers.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, the mid-19th Century was a time of great innovation in mass production of firearms.
But my point is that was still more of the exception than the rule for at least most of that time. While there were some well known manufactures really kicking it, most manufactures were still small cottage industry shops now mostly forgotten by the average Joe.
Another reason there are so many examples of firearms that only had small numbers made is the rapidly changing firearm technology and designs. Someone came up with an idea, and the next guy took it one step further over and over and over.
A comparison for perspective, these days Ruger alone, puts out far over 1 Million firearms per year.
 
Appalachiannative said:
Why exactly are brass frame BP revolvers made? I've been told they are historically inaccurate and as far as I know steel is cheaper than brass, or at least I think it is.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the 1st ever reproduction C&B revolver imported to the USA was a brass framed 1851 Navy. It was imported by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1959.


val-j-forgett-jr-2.jpg

Val Forgett: The Passing Of A Legend
Known as the Father of Modern Black Powder, Navy Arms' founder pioneered the replica gun business as we know it today.
By Dan Johnson

"Firearms enthusiasts everywhere lost a great friend this past November 25, when Val Forgett Sr. passed away at age of 72 after a lengthy battle with the blood disorder Myelodysplastic Syndrome (MDS).

Perhaps best known as the founder and president of Navy Arms Company, a business that ushered in the modern era of replica guns nearly a half-century ago, Forgett pioneered the world of black-powder firearms as we know it today. As early as 1956, Forgett, an active muzzle-loading enthusiast and reenactor, foresaw the growing interest in America's then-upcoming Civil War Centennial (1961-1965) and soon traveled to Gardonne, Italy, to work with such gunmakers as Vittorio Gregorelli, Aldo Uberti, Davide Pedersoli and Lucianno Amadi in order to have the first authentic replica revolvers and military rifles manufactured.

Through his vision, and a willingness to take huge risks in a brand-new area of the arms industry, Forgett set in motion a force that not only brought authentic working replica guns to shooters everywhere, it brought new prosperity to Italy's arms manufacturers while creating an entirely new and important segment of the gun industry worldwide.

Of such great importance to Italy's economy were Forgett's contributions that in 1977, the Italian government knighted him as a Cavaliere, an honor bestowed upon few outside Italy's borders. Along with creating the replica-gun business, Forgett, along with Bill Ruger, pioneered the use of investment-cast parts in firearms--a practice that has become an industry standard--and went on to recreate many of today's most popular "nostalgia guns."

A brief listing of his accomplishments in this area includes the introduction of authentic replicas of the 1851 Navy Colt revolver (1959), Remington's 1858 revolver and the 1863 Zouave percussion rifle/musket (1960), 1866 and 1873 Winchester lever-action rifles (1973), the Model 1860 Henry (1979), the LeMat percussion revolver (1985) andcopies of S&W's Schofield (1994) and Russian models (1999), along with countless other reproduction arms that span America's colorful past."

Article continues here:
https://archive.ph/20070512172140/h...ett_0625/index.html#selection-1313.0-1321.478


Interestingly enough Val Forgett the III (President & CEO of Navy Arms) occasionally chimes in on one of the Facebook Black Powder groups.
 
As far as volume of production, the past several years have seen unprecedented production volume from gun manufacturers, which is entirely understandable given a larger population and subsequent larger demand for product from both the private sector, law enforcement, and military. But it is eye popping to see the numbers. In 2017 alone (last year for numbers I found, there may be more current data elsewhere), manufacturers produced over 3.6 million pistols, 720,910 revolvers, 2.5 million rifles, and 653,139 shotguns. And 2017 was a down year from 2016, when production was over 4.6 million pistols.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/03/24/is-smith-wesson-still-the-biggest-gunmaker.aspx

(Edited to correct erroneous attribution)
 
Last edited:
Howdy Again

If we are talking about cartridge revolvers now, this little S&W No 1, 1st Issue, 5th Type left the factory in 1859. One of the first revolvers S&W made, chambered for what we would call today the 22 Short. The barrel and cylinder are probably iron, not steel, the frame was brass. Originally silver plated, almost all of the silver has worn off.

pmq296eNj.jpg




By the way, that Prescott S&W Style Belt Revolver is clearly a copy of a S&W #2.

Whether or not it was a legal copy I have no idea. S&W were fierce about protecting their patents and would sue the pants off any company that tried to copy their revolvers, particularly while their patents were still in force. Being made in Worcester MASS, not far from S&W's Springfield factory, I can't imagine it would have escaped the eagle eye of Daniel Wesson who was fierce about protecting his company's patents.

plS1uHScj.jpg
 
Last edited:
Driftwood you have some cool BP stuff!

While not as robust aka no heavy loads, and not as durable (unless they are fully tuned by Goonworks apparently), the other aspect of Brass is they look kinda cool I have purchased a couple just for that reason one an old ASM 1858 Richland, price was right, it works, and it looks kinda cool to me.

medium.jpg

Comparatively, while I like both, I think the brassers are nice to look at.

medium.jpg

I also have a couple 1851s which I like the looks of as well.

medium.jpg
 
My first muzzle loader nearly 50 years ago was a brass frame 1851 Navy 36 cal. I bought it at a gun shop in Rockland Maine used for $25. I shot the heck out of it for a couple of years. The last outing with it was with conical bullets and chambers as full as I could with 3f. I lined up my first shot and pulled the trigger. BOOM!! 5 out of six chambers chain-fired , including the one at 6 o'clock, driving the bullet into the rammer. Another round caught the wedge. The gun stayed together but was destroyed. I sold it at a yard sale for $25 with full disclosure that it was strictly a wall hanger. That was the beginning of a half century love affair with shooting black powder. My most recent purchase is this Uberti Griswold and Gunnison ca 1970. Another brasser. I don't believe the gun had ever been shot with a load. It appeared to have maybe a dozen or so caps run through it. I completely disassembled and cleaned and lubed it, put it back together and took it to the range. The hammer fall was so week that it would not fire the first time around... or the second time. I finally got it to shoot all chambers, loaded it again and went through the same process. Back to the workshop. I tore it down again and studied it closely. I stripped the blue finish off of the cylinder and barrel assembly (the originals were left in the white) I replaced the undersized and broken wedge. I replaced the hammer spring with a stronger one I had laying around.I carefully filed burrs from in the hammer well. I plan on taking it to the range again this weekend. IMG_E4903.JPG
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Steel vrs. brass frame bp revolvers.
Replies
22
Views
9K
Ed Gallop
E
ChasMack
  • Locked
Question about new brass framed 1851 Navy by Pietta
Replies
13
Views
6K
webrx
webrx
J
  • Locked
Conversion Cylinder in Brass Frame?
Replies
7
Views
7K
Burt Blade
B
U
Brass frame durability question
Replies
21
Views
663
hawg
hawg
Big D
  • Locked
Getting back into BP revolvers....
Replies
24
Views
1K
arcticap
arcticap
Back
Top