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Break-ins in Australia vs. United States

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by Stephen Maize, Jan 25, 2020.

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  1. Stephen Maize

    Stephen Maize member

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    Break-ins for Australia is higher than for the United States.


    Australia Break-in or attempt 8.2% 1988 USA Break-in or attempt 9.2% 1988

    Australia Break-in or attempt 7.5% 1991 USA Break-in or attempt 7.0% 1991

    Australia Break-in or attempt 6.8% 1992

    USA Break-in or attempt 5.6% 1996

    Australia Break-in or attempt 7.6% 1997

    Australia Break-in or attempt 7.2% 2000 USA Break-in or attempt 4.5% 1999

    Australia Break-in or attempt 7.4% 2002

    Australia Break-in or attempt 5.4% 2005 USA Break-in or attempt 4.7% 2004

    This is according to International Victimization Survey. The year 1993 and 1997 is according to the crime and safety survey 1993 and 1998.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  2. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    And how does this app!y to activism?
     
  3. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    While the data is old, it illustrates two things useful from our perspective - The risk of a break-in for Australia is higher than for the US during that period and that the risk of a break-in while someone is at home is therefore higher if total break-ins are higher (no data supporting that, but if you're home when a break-in occurs you're a subset of all break-ins).

    Home invasions and break-ins are a danger to residents and we often cite break-ins and the need to defend yourself and your family as a reason to be armed. Having criminals break-in while you're at home either calls for you to defend yourself and your family effectively or that everyone flees the home and leave it to the criminals. Not possible most of the time. Since defending yourself in the home is a basic right it shouldn't be limited by absurd "assault weapon" bans.

    Since Australia is often thrown up to us as a model for how we should regulate firearms, knowing that the risk of a break-in is higher in Australia than the US is a useful counter to those claims of Australia being safer than the US.

    When Antis try to paint other countries with draconian firearms restrictions as better than the US, having citeable information that those countries are actually no safer than the US is valuable to shut those arguments down. Conversely, if they point to lower homicide rates it is clear the data indicates that there's no correlation between violence rates and rates of ownership of firearms or liberal firearms laws since there's no consistency in trying to correlate our lower violence rates, higher homicide rates, and very high firearms ownership rates and numbers. If there's no consistent correlation then there's another root cause than firearms.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  4. Stephen Maize

    Stephen Maize member

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    Screenshot_2020-01-26 Break-ins in Australia vs United States.png
    Australia Break in or attempt 2017 is 4.7% United States Break in or attempt 2.0%

    Burglary is according to the Australia Crime Victimization Survey. Burglary is according to the United States National Crime Victimization Survey.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2020
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Break-in rates in Australia are generally twice that of the US! That implies they break into occupied homes twice as much?

    So much for the Antis depicting Australia as one of their go-to arguments against us if Australians are twice as likely to have a break-in as we would in the US, especially if the at home break-ins are twice as frequent.
     
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  6. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Since the Australian gun bans and confiscations (of registered guns) are frequently cited by US gun control advocates, the before and after in Australia and the comparison of Australian to US crime rates is important in gun control discussions.
     
  7. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Again; merely presenting data is not activism.
     
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  8. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    My post in this thread saying that got deleted. Apparently we're missing something. Not sure what. o_O
     
  9. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Guys, data contradicting the Anti arguments is useful in activism. If we show clear citeable sources that challenge the popular belief that those paragons of gun prohibition are safer while Antis claim we are a more dangerous country then it supports us by undermining the Anti argument and helps us in advocating for RKBA.
     
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  10. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Any source is citeable. That doesn't make it valid. Regardless, the fact remains that this thread (and several others almost exactly like it recently, most of which have been closed) very clearly does not meet the requirements set forth in this thread. https://thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-this-forum-works-emphasis-on-work-read-this-before-posting.270671/ that people are supposed to read before posting in the Activism section.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  11. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

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    Kudos to the O/P.

    FWIW, the source data for all respondents and the questions asked are available to the public but the dataset is rather large. International Crime Victimization Survey (ICVS) Series,
    https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/series/175

    Series also asks about gun ownership among other things and gives actual comparative data which is rare because it asks respondents directly a series of questions that are a) common among all respondents and the variables are constructed the same way, b) adjusted for language differences, and c) similar surveys were done over several years with an increasing number of countries participating. This is a superior cross-national approach rather than compiling police reports across different nations (this is very problematic due to differences in reporting and variable construction among countries).
     
  12. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    We moved this discussion, and others, from Activism to Activism Discussion because of the level of discussion required on this data.
     
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  13. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    My apologies then. Didn't even know that was a thing.
     
  14. Stephen Maize

    Stephen Maize member

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    Thank you for your words, boom boom
     
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  15. Stephen Maize

    Stephen Maize member

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    hso, thank you for your continued support
     
  16. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Moving it to a proper forum is far better than a moderator simply using their censoring powers to lock the thread.
    Thank you Steve Maize for your informative threads.
     
  17. Stephen Maize

    Stephen Maize member

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    B05D6039-1AC9-4D0C-AD94-F20E978018EC.jpeg You know, I love learning about other countries. We should find comfort in the fact Australia’s 4.7%, even we might say the US rate was 2.2%. We should be happy and congratulate each other on the fact that the vast majority of households don’t have burglaries. We should show people that here are the facts and we don’t condemn Australia for higher burglary rate. We can still love Australia’s wild life and culture. We should never have an arrogant attitude to other countries other than our own. We should be happy and relax in the fact that most households are extremely safe. Even Canada had a burglary rate of 3.9% in 2004 and 4.7% in 2009 and then 3.1%. Even Canada has an A+. I don’t condemn Canada because of that imperfection. I still love her even as an American.

    We Should have the attitude that Canada and Australia May be worst than the US slightly, but I still love you.

    we should never have an arrogant attitude towards other countries and in grand scheme of things, both countries are very safe.

    Australia 95.7% of households were not burglaries. In the US 98% were not burglaries.

    Both countries have an A+. Both countries are past 90% even Canada at 3.1% 96.9% which were not burglaries in 2014.

    In the grand scheme of things, we are all very safe.

    Ireland in 2015 had a burglary rate of 3% so 97% were not burglaries.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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