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BREAKING NEWS -- Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by David, Jul 7, 2005.

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  1. David

    David Member

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    Series of explosions on the subway and buses in London -- injuries reported -- reported on CNN, MSNBC and FOX news.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,2763,1523084,00.html

    Many hurt in London blasts

    Sarah Left and agencies
    Thursday July 7, 2005

    Many people were hurt today in a major incident on the London transport network as at least two explosions were reported on the tube, at least two buses were ripped apart in suspected bomb blasts and London's transport network was plunged into chaos.
    Union officials said their sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground. A Sky News producer who was evacuated from Kings Cross and was walking towards Russell Square also reported seeing an explosion on a bus. He said the blast was caused by a bomb, and said people with "blood injuries" emerged from the bus. Scotland Yard could not immediately confirm the report.
     
  2. Joejojoba111

    Joejojoba111 Member

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    And they're just about to vote on national ID cards, I wonder how that will go.
     
  3. steveno

    steveno Member

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    must have been the French for losing the Olympics in 2012
     
  4. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    Lovely world we're living in.

    I wonder if the British population is going to reject gun control and arm themselves now.
     
  5. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    I would be more inclined to expect upcoming restrictions on the purchase of fertalizer and plumbing materials.
     
  6. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    Evidently it was initially thought to be a power surge. The count appears to be five underground stations. I guess the buses exploding cleared up the power surge confusion. Evidently one of the stations was a particularly bad situation.

    I guess we're lucky. We hosted a G8 summit, and all we got were some lousy protests. Just wait, though. Next major economic summit here, and it'll happen. Or maybe it'll just happen on a random thursday. Anyway, if it happens in London, it'll happen here. It's not The Big One(tm) I'm worried about, it's a whole mess of little ones like this. Coming to a crowded metropolis near you.
     
  7. iapetus

    iapetus Member

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    I'm in UCL (University College London) at the moment, which is near some of the stations hit. Fortunately I wasn't near any of them when they were, and haven't seen any of the actual damage.

    The first I heard of it was when I got off my bicycle to let some police cars past, and another cyclist with a radio doing the same told me there were "unconfirmed reports of bombs on buses and the tube [subway]".

    As I got further into London, there were more and more police cars, ambulances and fire engines tearing about and helicopters above, and several of the roads I normally take were sealed off. (Although in one case, outside Waterloo Station, it appears this was due to a "suspicious package" rather than an actual explosion).

    Eventually the roads became so gridlocked that I had to dismount and walk. (I've often found that a bike is the best means of getting around in London because of its flexability and immunity to gridlock. Its unfortunate that "not a target" can now be added to the list).
     
  8. ACORN

    ACORN Member

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    Terrible news, I wonder if there will be attacks here in the US today also. Al Qaeda is known for co-ordinated attacks. I'd be leery if I had to take mass transit. God help the victims of this attack.
     
  9. TheOtherOne

    TheOtherOne Member

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    What do terrorists have against G8 or is it just coincidence they chose this day?
     
  10. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    My prayers go out to the Brits effected by this viciousness.

    I hope we'll see some backbone and steely-eyed determination, rather than the Spanish alternative to courage.

    Of course, I expect America & GWB's administration to spare no effort in assisting the UK in hunting down the perpetrators and dealing with them out of hand.
     
  11. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    I wish to express my sincere condolences to our British friends.

    I feel I should say more but I have no idea what.

    :(
     
  12. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    My question is do we believe this is the work of some Islamic terrorist organization or the handywork of some tree-hugging-liberal types with a gripe about the economic summit?

    Greg
     
  13. Norton

    Norton Member

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    Wow....this is scary stuff....we are seeing pictures of places we walked and visited during our trips there. It appears that the bus explosion occured at Russell Square which is where we stayed on our second trip :eek:

    I hope that this is as bad as it gets and that nothing else happens.

    Guess this is a message to review my car bags and home preps.
     
  14. NC Shooter

    NC Shooter Member

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    My thoughts and prayers go out to the British people. We know how you feel.

    I hope we help England as much as they have helped us over the last few years.
     
  15. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Expect the casualty figures to get much worse... there are several rail cars in tunnels that were hit by bombs, and reports from survivors who walked past these cars speak of them being filled with wounded and/or motionless figures.

    I'm not surprised by this attack: given that Britain is an ally in Iraq, it was only a matter of time. Now we'll see whether the British electorate goes Spanish, as in getting rid of their government, or has a spine and strikes back against terror.
     
  16. agricola

    agricola Member

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    preacherman,

    I would not put any money behind that, if I were you.
     
  17. Albert Shear

    Albert Shear Member

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    A terrorist act does not have to be committed by a Muslim group to be labeled terrorism. If in fact it was the protest group against the G8 then they should be hunted with all means necessary available to bring them to justice as any terrorist organization should.
    My heartfelt sympathies to the survivors, families and friends and the British people on this sad day.
    To know the heights of wonderous things man is capable of achieving, yet all we seem to do is destroy each other. How sad.
     
  18. 280PLUS

    280PLUS Member

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    The same would apply to the U.S. I'm afraid.

    +1
     
  19. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    Fox News TV is reporting that a group is taking credit for the bombs "in the name of Al Qaeda."

    Also reporting that two London hospitals are reporting at least 185 wounded.


    hillbilly
     
  20. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    That "in the name of Al Qaeda" thing almost makes me think that its some form of misguided domestic group of whackos. Kinda like many of the domestic groups in the 60s and 70s commiting crimes "in the name of southeast asia".

    Politically speaking, if it turns out to be domestics its really going to hurt the Brittish anti-war movement. The English ran out of tollerance for domestic terrorist a LONG time ago.
     
  21. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    This article was written back in early 2004.


    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/10329634?version=1


    Terror on the dole
    By David Cohen, Evening Standard
    20 April 2004
    Four young British Muslims in their twenties - a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser - occupy a table at a fast-food chicken restaurant in Luton. Perched on their plastic chairs, wolfing down their dinner, they seem just ordinary young men. Yet out of their mouths pour heated words of revolution.

    "As far as I'm concerned, when they bomb London, the bigger the better," says Abdul Haq, the social worker. "I know it's going to happen because Sheikh bin Laden said so. Like Bali, like Turkey, like Madrid - I pray for it, I look forward to the day."

    "Pass the brown sauce, brother," says Abu Malaahim, the IT specialist, devouring his chicken and chips.




    "I agree with you, brother," says Abu Yusuf, the earnest-looking financial adviser sitting opposite. "I would like to see the Mujahideen coming into London and killing thousands, whether with nuclear weapons or germ warfare. And if they need a safehouse, they can stay in mine - and if they need some fertiliser [for a bomb], I'll tell them where to get it."

    His friend, Abu Musa, the security guard, smiles radiantly. "It will be a day of joy for me," he adds, speaking with a slight lisp.

    As they talk, a man with a bushy beard, dressed in a jacket emblazoned with the word "Jihad", stands and watches over them, handing around cups of steaming hot coffee. His real name is Ishtiaq Alamgir, but he goes by his adopted name, Sayful Islam, meaning "Sword of Islam". He is the 24-year-old leader of the Luton branch of al-Muhajiroun, an extremist Muslim group with about 800 members countrywide, who regard Osama bin Laden as their hero.

    Until recently, nobody took the fanatical beliefs of al-Muhajiroun too seriously, believing that a British-based group so brazenly "out there" could not be involved in something as "underground" as terrorism. The group is led by the exiled Saudi, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad, from his base in north London. Yesterday, in a magazine article, Bakri warned that several radical groups are poised to strike in London.

    For all its inflammatory rhetoric, al-Muhajiroun has never been linked to actual violence. Yet, with the discovery last month of half-a-tonne of ammonium nitrate fertiliser - the same explosive ingredient used in the Bali and Turkey terror attacks - and with the arrest of eight young British Muslims in London and the South-East, including six in Luton, extremist groups such as al-Muhajiroun are under the spotlight like never before.

    Detectives fear that the "enemy within", the homegrown extremists leading apparently normal lives in suburbia, now pose the greatest threat to security in Britain. Sayful and his friends fit this "homegrown" profile: three were born here, two came as young children from Pakistan; all were educated in local Luton schools; and they grew up in families of full employment - one of their fathers is a retired local businessman, two are engineers, and two worked in the local Vauxhall car plant.

    The question is: how worried should we be? Is al-Muhajiroun nothing more than a repository for disaffected Muslim youths who have adopted an extreme interpretation of Islam - perhaps to cock a snook at the white establishment - but who are essentially posturing? Or does the group also perform a more sinister function, sucking in alienated young men and brainwashing the more impressionable into becoming future suicide bombers?

    Although none of the arrested Muslims - aged 17 to 32 - appear to be current al-Muhajiroun members, rumours have circulated of informal links to the group. Moreover, parents of the arrested men have spoken anxiously of the "radicalising influence" of al-Muhajiroun militants who " corrupt" their children at mosques.

    Nowhere has this public confrontation between radicals and moderates been more apparent than in Luton, which has the highest density of Muslims in the South-East - 28,000 out of a total population of 140,000 - and has long been regarded as a hotbed of extremism.

    Sayful Islam, for one, is particularly proud of his contribution to Luton's hardline reputation. His exploits include covering the town with " Magnificent 19" posters glorifying the 11 September suicide bombers. "When I joined al-Muhajiroun four years ago, there were five local members," he says. "Now there are more than 50 and hundreds more support us."

    The strange thing is that four years ago, Sayful Islam was a jeans-clad student completing his degree in business economics at Middlesex University in Hendon, north London.

    The son of a British Rail engineer who came to this country from Pakistan, Sayful grew up in a moderate, middle-class Muslim family in Luton. At the local Denbigh High School, he is remembered as one of the smartest kids, and was selected to attend a science masterclass at Cambridge University. He would go on to marry, have two children and find work as an accountant for the Inland Revenue in Luton. He was thoroughly uninterested in politics.

    THEN he met Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad at a local event. Within two years, he had swapped his decently paid job as an accountant for an unpaid one as a political agitator. What turned him into an extremist? And how far is he prepared to go to achieve his aims?

    Prior to seeing the group at the fastfood restaurant, Sayful meets me at his semi-detached rented home in Bury Park, Luton's Muslim neighbourhood. He no longer works, even though he is able-bodied, he admits, preferring instead to claim housing benefit and jobseeker's allowance. He smiles sheepishly and says the irony is not lost on him that the British state is supporting him financially, even as he plots to "overthrow it".

    "I made a decision that I wanted to follow what Islam really said," Sayful begins, sitting on his sofa in his thowb (a traditional robe) and bare feet. "I went to listen to all the local imams, but I found their portrayal of Islam was too secularised. When I heard Sheikh Omar [the leader] of al-Muhajiroun speak, it was pure Islam, with no compromise. I found that appealing.

    "At the same time," continues Sayful, "wars were happening in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Afghanistan. People were being oppressed simply because they were Muslim. Although I had never experienced racism in the UK, it opened the eyes of a lot of Muslims, including mine."

    But it was the events of 11 September that crystallised Sayful's worldview. "When I watched those planes go into the Twin Towers, I felt elated," he says. "That magnificent action split the world into two camps: you were either with Islam and al Qaeda, or with the enemy. I decided to quit my job and commit myself full-time to al-Muhajiroun." Now he does not consider himself British. "I am a Muslim living in Britain, and I give my allegiance only to Allah."

    According to Sayful, the aim of al-Muhajiroun ("the immigrants") is nothing less than Khilafah - "the worldwide domination of Islam". The way to achieve this, he says, is by Jihad, led by Bin Laden. "I support him 100 per cent."

    Does that support extend to violent acts of terrorism in the UK?

    "Yes," he replies, unequivocally. "When a bomb attack happens here, I won't be against it, even if it kills my own children. Islam is clear: Muslims living in lands that are occupied have the right to attack their invaders.

    "Britain became a legitimate target when it sent troops to Iraq. But it is against Islam for me to engage personally in acts of terrorism in the UK because I live here. According to Islam, I have a covenant of security with the UK, as long as they allow us Muslims to live here in peace."

    HE USES the phrase "covenant of security" constantly. He attempts to explain. "If we want to engage in terrorism, we would have to leave the country," he says. "It is against Islam to do otherwise." Such a course of action, he says, he is not prepared to undertake. This is why, Sayful claims, it is consistent, and not cowardly, for him to espouse the rhetoric of terrorism, the "martyrdom-operations", while simultaneouslylimiting himself to nonviolentactions such as leafletting outside Luton town hall.

    He denies any link between al-Muhajiroun and the Muslims arrested in the recent police raids. But, as I later discover at the fastfood restaurant, not everyone attaching themselves, however loosely, to al-Muhajiroun draws the same line. Two members of the group - Abu Yusuf, the financial adviser, and Abu Musa, the security guard - scorn al-Muhajiroun as "too moderate".

    "I am freelance," says Abu Yusuf, fixing me with his piercing brown eyes. What does that mean? I ask.

    "The difference between us and those two," interjects Abu Malaahim, pointing to Musa and Yusuf, "is that us lot do a verbal thing, [but] those brothers actually want to do a physical thing."

    Referring to the latest truce offered by Bin Laden, and Britain's scathing rejection of it, Abu Malaahim adds: "He tried to make a peace deal. When terrorism happens, you will only have yourselves to blame."

    How far are you prepared to go? I ask.

    "You want to know how far I will go," says Abu Musa, his high-pitched lisp rising an octave. "When Allah said in the Koran 'kill and be killed', that's what I want. I want a martyr operation, where I kill my enemy."

    Are you saying, I probe, that you are looking to kill people yourself ? "Yes," Abu Musa says, "to kill and to be killed." He emphasises each word.

    What's stopped you doing it? "As you know from watching the news," intones Abu Yusuf, "there are brothers who do leave the country and do it." He is referring to the four Muslims from Luton who died fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the two British Muslims, said to have had ties to al-Muhajiroun, who last April left to become suicide bombers in Israel. "In-shallah [ Godwilling], there will be a time to go."

    It is hard to know whether Musa and Yusuf are deadly serious or just pumped full of misguided, youthful bravado. Though I see coldness - even ruthlessness - in their eyes, I sense no malice. Both young men agree, perhaps foolishly, to be quoted using their real names, though they decline photographs - thus illustrating their uncertainty of which way to jump.

    Muhammad Sulaiman, president of the Islamic Cultural Society, the largest of the 14 mosques in Luton, dismisses al-Muhajiroun as "verbal diarrhoea".

    "They are an extreme Right-wing group - the Muslim version of the BNP," he says disdainfully. "They think Muslims should dominate, just like the BNP thinks whites should dominate. They use Islam as a vehicle to promote their distorted beliefs, particularly to unemployed young bloods who are vulnerable."

    ALTHOUGH unemployment in Luton is just six per cent, the rate among Muslim youths is estimated at 25 per cent. "They are no more representative of our Muslim community than the BNP are of the white community."

    Sulaiman insists that Sayful Islam and his crew are not welcome at the mosque. He cannot prevent them praying there, but he will never give them a platform. "I've told Sayful to bugger off and ejected him many times," he says brusquely. "Even Sayful's father, who I know well, thinks his son has been brainwashed."

    But Sayful and his friends laugh at the idea that they are local pariahs. "The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

    They also mock the idea that they are attracted to al-Muhajiroun because they have suffered alienation from white society. "Do we look like scum?" they ask. "Do we look illiterate?"

    As they call for the bill, Abu Malaahim flicks open his 3G mobile phone and, with a satisfied grin, displays the image, downloaded from the internet, of an American Humvee burning in Iraq.

    Abu Yusuf says: "That's nothing. I downloaded the picture of the four burnt Americans hanging from the bridge." It's oneupmanship, al-Muhajiroun style.

    Sayful, the only married one in the group, prepares to go home to his wife and children. Before he departs, he says he has a message to deliver.

    "I want to warn that the police raids - if repeated - could create a bad situation.

    "Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek. If they raid our homes, it could lead to the covenant of security being broken.

    "Islam allows us to retaliate. That would include" - he tugs his "Jihad" coat tight against the night air - "by violent means."
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    One thing always holds true: terrorists always repeat successes. Madrid will have many children. :uhoh:

    Hope our friends and friends of friends are all sound as a pound. My cousin is back in the Motherland this summer, hope he is well.
     
  23. pythonguy

    pythonguy Member

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    England and the US know who the enemies are, be they muslim or communist, or radicals (liberals). These two great Countries do not back down and will not now. Before leaping to any conclusions about who did it, lets let the evidence speak for itself and wait for the truth, then respond accordingly. Spain and France will have no stomach for any response, they hate America and England for the most part anyway, so lets forget about those that forgot us and do what has to be done, support the US and the UK. And lets NOT forget to show the french and spanish we don't appreciate their lack of support by NOT buying any of their goods and services. No travel to their stinking countries, no buying of their exports, that they'll understand. Both countries have been "crying" as late that their tourist business has been way down, and france lost the olympic bid yesterday, no coincidence, just payback.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2005
  24. Kaylee

    Kaylee Moderator

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    To our British members --

    I know money can't solve every problem, but if there's anything regular citizens on this side of the pond can do to help London now, please know you have only to ask.

    You stood with us on 9/11, we'll stand with you now. Of that I'm certain.

    God bless you and yours.
     
  25. Frandy

    Frandy Member

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    Are you being serious or sarcastic? The roots of international terrorism can be argued ad nauseum, but there is no doubt that many international terrorists see the leading industrial/post industrial nations as the "cause" of their pains throughout the undeveloped world. Attacking the host of the G8, who is also an ally of ours in the Iraq war, and now has the Olympics for 2012 (that is coincidental but still significant in terms of security issues) seems logical. How safe are our urban subways and buses? Stay tuned...and locked and loaded.

    Sympathies to all Brits, especially the families of those killed and all who were hurt.
     
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