Bringing weapons from Iraq to the U.S.

[Phantom Warrior]

<stupid disclaimer>
I am not advocating the violation of UCMJ or Federal regulations, I'm just idly curious.
</stupid disclaimer>

So, I'm stationed here in Baghdad. Yesterday one of my buddies was talking to EOD about all the weapons they destroy. EOD blows up all the confiscated weapons. Apparently there were some nice ones.

Yeah, I know it's a tragedy and all that. But I'm curious, what legal issues are there regarding bringing weapons from Iraq to the U.S. I'm certain it's against military regulations and/or theater general orders, but what else is involved? If GEN Casey (or whoever) said, "Hey, we'll sell confiscated weapons to the Joes" or whatever, can you legally bring weapons into the U.S. like that?

Please help me satisfy my curiousity.

 

[ScottsGT]

I saw a post somewhere on either THR or another forum where a USGI was allowed to bring back a bolt action rifle. No semi's or of course autos. Check with your CO over there.

 

[GRIZ22]

There are provisions in the GCA 68 for war veterans to bring back any functional non-NFA weapon that is not US manufacture and was used by the enemy. NFA weapons could be brought back if dewatted. SKSs and even more rarely encountered Makarovs were a highly desirable war trophy from Vietnam. A friend of mine has a a dewatted AK47 and PPSH on his wall. When I came home from Vietnam in 1969 you were supposed to hand carry the weapon onto the plane and the stewardess would check it for you. Sounds surprising in light of today's situation. I had a Tokarev which I wound up selling to someone else as the GCA 68 had already passed and I was 19 and couldn't bring back a pistol.

While the law says you can, the practice has been heavily restricted by the military who can make regs more strigent. After Desert Storm, I know of Gulf War vets who even had Iraqi bayonets seized by Customs.

Exactly what the policy is now I'm not quite sure although a friend brought home a bolt action Enfield from Afghanistan.

The people to ask what current policy allows is the Provost Marshal's Office (you used to have to get an export certificate from them) or better yet if you could talk to a Military Customs Inspector (probably only in bigger cities like Baghdad) for procedures.

Phantom BTW I was with the 1/30 in Schweinfurt in 1970 at Ledward Kaserne. I was with HHC in the last barracks to the left as you came in the front gate. We used to watch soccer games from the roof (safer than actually going to it if you ever were to a German soccer game).

 

[RKCheung]

Don't do it.

Only your CO is able to authorize bringing back "war trophies" and those are only for display at the unit.

Don't even think about it trying to bring any kind of firearm back or you will be breaking big rocks into little rocks for years to come.

 

[Hoppy590]

well it cant hurt ( too badly) to ask you CO.

 

[wdlsguy]

Application and Permit for Importation of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War (for use by members of the US Armed Forces).

There's probably more to it than this though.

 

[Jim K]

Forget it!

And forget World War II and all those "bringback" Mausers and Lugers.

It is my understanding that NO weapons, as in NONE, as in ZERO, can be brought back from Afghanistan or Iraq by military personnel for their own use. Several GI's who have tried it have gone to prison. And no one can authorize it, so permission from your CO means only that he can join you in jail.

Jim

 

[Gene_WI]

Could you make parts kits?

 

[paramedic70002]

Yet supposedly W had Saddam's pistol at the white house (in NO GUN D.C.)

 

[Ian]

Hey now! You know that our Glorious Leaders are above the law.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I think the White House might be Federal land and under different rules.

However, back to the subject at hand. Don't try it unless your CO is willing to sign off on everything. Even then, I would be very hesitant. For sure, don't even think about anything that is NFA.

I was in Bosnia when units (not individuals) were going through all the proper channels to bring stuff back for museums. Often, they had to ask the follow on unit to try to push there stuff through since the paperwork had gotten bogged down. There were (maybe still are) connexs of stuff there that were not going anywhere due to the paperwork. My bud was the historian (and a gun nut) with one of the Guard units there, it was almost a full time job for him to try to get their stuff out of the country.

For me, it's just not worth it.

 

[crunker]

I think that you can if you get it approved with the entire chain-of-command... good luck.

 

[countertop]

I think the White House might be Federal land and under different rules.

All of DC is federal land and under different rules. The President, as Commander In Chief, is the Chief military and law enforcement agent for the country. DC law doesn't touch him.

However, back to the subject at hand. Don't try it unless your CO is willing to sign off on everything. Even then, I would be very hesitant. For sure, don't even think about anything that is NFA.

As to the underlying question at hand, there were a bunch of machine guns bought back earlier last year by Maryland vets. They ended up fetching close to $50k each and were used in a series of brutal bank robberies here in DC over the last year. So much for Gun Free DC or the notion that Virginia Gun Shows are contributing to crime.

I don't know what the procedures are, but they have become more stringent over the years. It could be done during Desert Storm, but not easily. My guess is its even more difficult now. Might check with CO (as others have said) or maybe a friendly JAG

 

[LAR-15]

If it was made in or before 1898 you can import it in.

Of course your CO might say otherwise.

 

[Spot77]

What about magazines or other parts? Obviously no receivers.......

 

[SnakeEater]

Back when we were actually free this question would've seemed silly. So very sad.:banghead:

 

[PvtPyle]

General Order 1A prohibits the retention of any weapons not manufactured prior to 1898, or replicas of those weapons that will fire a modern round. The only weapons authorized for retention and importation to the US are relics that are made before 1898, or replicas of them. ANYTHING else will get you into massive UCMJ trouble and they are getting tougher and tougher on these infractions.

Only your CO is able to authorize bringing back "war trophies" and those are only for display at the unit.

No, he can not. In order to import weapons that have historical value they have to go to Aberdeen and be entered into the US system. They will be assigned a number and put on the unit property books as any other weapon system. Weapons of historical value may not be demilled in any way as that would destroy their value and historical significance.

Individuals and units are specificly forbidden from retaining war trophys of ANY kind by CENTCOM. If the unit commander authorizes it, and you try/do bring them back a few things are likely to happen.

1) They get siezed by customs as the unit commander does not have access to the proper paperwork to bring them thru. Only the guys at Aberdeen have that peperwork and they generally come out to you to see it and evaluate it. They will NOT waster their time for any modern piece as there are now thousands of weapons and vehicles that have been recovered from OIE/OEF. The unit commander is now facing legal action.

2) You manage to get it thru, and some REMF sees it and runs it up to the IG or JAG. Now the unit commander and the individual that pack the weapon under his direction are facing legal action.

Those are the most common and simplest ways people have been caught and what has happened.

In short, if it is modern and you want to bring it back, forget it. We are talking man-love Thursday every night, federal prison time. They will turn your life inside out and nail you to the wall. There is no modern weapons system that is deemed to have historical value for any reason, regardless of what Haji gave it to you or for what reason.

If you want a foreign weapon for your wall in the armory, contact the Museum and History guys in Aberdeen. They have litterally thousands of weapons on hand. They offered to send us a functional Scud launcher and T-72 tank, on their dime if we could find a place to put them. It is much easier than getting thrown in jail and raped regularly.

 

[Cuda]

My son just got home (second tour).. I asked him the same question, his answer in a word was no...


C

 

[kd7nqb]

One of my buddies just is an armorer over there and he said that they have some sort of exception because they are being used on base for "Training purposes" his plan was to do that and then have them surplussed out but I dont know that he actually put any thought or research into this.

 

[Langenator]

One of the officers I work with commanded an HHC for one of the Germany-based brigades of the Big Red One over there...he had a pristine Mauser 98k...looked like it just came from the factory in Oberndorf...had to leave it behind.

Supposedly the policy is justified as "we don't want to look like we're pillaging conquerors" or some such. If we were facing an organized, traditional enemy, souveniers like enemy flags and unit colors/guidons would be allowed-I've seen several of those captured in GW One mounted on walls.

Maybe if your unit captured some Tangos with signed pictures of Osama and his entourage you could bring those home.

 

[Thin Black Line]

2) You manage to get it thru, and some REMF sees it and runs it up to the IG or JAG. Now the unit commander and the individual that pack the weapon under his direction are facing legal action.

You manage to get....past the metal detector wands, emptying your bags
and having your mail x-rayed.....after you've been warned numerous times
that it's very illegal....

The only "bring-backs" you are allowed are edged weapons by mail --no
switch blades. This was an improvement from when people were in Gulf 1.

I for one was not going to hop out of my partially-armored humvee to barter
with some guy along the road for an AK47 bayonet that was in worse shape
than one I could get back here. Now a damascus dagger at one of the shops
is a different matter

BTW, last year people were hand-carrying hookas home --legally.....yeah, I'm
sure they were going to use it for tobacco.....

 

[Prince Yamato]

What about all those "Iraqi" AK-47 Mags I see at gun shows then? Are they fake? I never bought one because I wasn't sure.

 

[DRZinn]

FWIW, when I came back they did not make me lift up my shirt and show my belt, and anything that may or may not have been inserted between the belt and my body.

 

[mljdeckard]

My best friend, who is an MI captain, brought home three 1855 Enfields from Afgahanistan, in three different lengths, one, two, and three bands as a set. They are likely leftover weapons from the colonial British. He brought the first one home in his break, to see what would happen. They told him since it was manufactured before 1898, and it used black powder, it was not a firearm, but he would be better off if they were cased. We don't plan on firing them, they will be mounted over the mantle, but he bought them from a flea market, and the natives were certainly buying them intending to use them. We should take them to a gun show to see if they are worth more than scrap metal.

I heard all kinds of stories from Gulf I, guys sending home duffel bags full of AKs and Dragunovs, and then theater command said something to the effect of, 'never mind, the party is over.' I knew a guy in Germany who came home on a cargo ship, and when the customs guy shook them down, they lined up twenty of them, picked two, and told them, "Pick one duffel bag for inspection and follow me." He said if he had known, he would have brought home a pile of them.

 

[SuperiorMarksman_18]

One of my dad's friends brought( or really smuggled) an AK into the states from the first Gulf War. Supposedly he sold it for $400.