Brits: Welcome to America --now go straight to jail

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http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1336840.html


Britons vent scorn at U.S. after 24 days in N.C. jails


Garry Latcham thought he was carrying a harmless gift for his North Carolina host when he boarded a plane from his native England in November, planning to spend four days hunting in rural Person County.

Instead, the gifts -- two silencers intended for air guns -- landed Latcham and his traveling companion in jail for nearly a month, after customs agents mistook the men for terrorists. Federal officials now say that the men were vacationers with no criminal plot. But they were still forced to plead guilty to felonies, because they failed to declare the $55 silencers on their customs forms.

The two working-class men, both of whom have young families, ran up thousands of dollars in legal bills and spent 24 days in crowded county jails before being allowed to return home last week.


"We came for a holiday of a lifetime, and we got one," Latcham said this week from his home in England. "I will never come back to the United States, ever."

He gave only a short interview, saying he wanted a contribution to his legal fees before speaking at length.

In a news release last week, U.S. Attorney George E.B. Holding said the prosecution of Latcham and his friend, George Hope, "highlights the importance of the Customs Declaration Form individuals must fill out when they enter the United States and of the laws and rules governing travel between countries."

Their lawyer, Doug Kingsbery of Raleigh, said the British men's treatment was unnecessarily harsh. Even the federal judge who heard the case thought the men should be released from jail, and questioned the point of the prosecution.

"At the point they realized this was just an innocent mistake, they should have just let them go," Kingsbery said. "These guys went through a terrifying experience, being in a foreign country's jail."

Since 9/11, tighter security has caused problems for many international visitors and has depressed tourism to the United States.

Trip had been a dream

Latcham, 43, said he had hoped for years to visit his longtime friend, Peter Slivinski, who lives on 20 acres outside Roxboro. Both men repair machinery in factories, and once worked for the same company. They met on a work-related trip in England in the 1990s.

This year, Slivinski offered Latcham his frequent-flier miles, and Latcham invited his friend George Hope, 41, to join him on the trip. They planned to hunt, relax and be back home to their wives and young children in less than a week.

To show their appreciation, they bought two air gun silencers in a sporting goods shop in County Durham in Northern England, where they live. They knew that Slivinski, as they do, owns air rifles to control rats and other small animals on his property. The guns use compressed air or gas to fire BBs or pellets.

Kingsbery said silencers are commonly used on air guns in England, and are widely available without a permit. He said they are required for shooting near towns and villages.

Silencers are attached to the barrels of guns to reduce the amount of noise and light produced when they fire. In the United States, silencers are tightly regulated and are illegal in some states. They are often associated with violent crime.

The men put the silencers in Hope's suitcase, along with a bottle of whiskey and an imitation Rolex watch for Slivinski.

When they arrived at Raleigh-Durham International Airport on Nov. 13, Hope's suitcase was missing. They filed a report and headed home with Slivinski.

Back at the airport, customs agents discovered the bag and thought it was abandoned. They searched it and found the silencers, which they assumed were meant for firearms rather than air guns. It is illegal to bring firearms, including silencers, into the United States.

Barbara Kocher, the assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the men, said the customs agents feared they had uncovered a violent plot. "They reacted as they have been trained," she said. "And they thought, this is a bad situation."

Arrested at RDU

Customs agents soon found the missing bag report and asked Hope and Latcham to return to the airport the next day.

Latcham said they arrived expecting to take the bag and get on with their vacation. Instead, they were handcuffed and imprisoned.

Kocher said investigators researched the men's background extensively, contacting Interpol and immigration officials in England. The checks revealed no criminal histories or connections.

The men told investigators they didn't know it was against the law to carry the silencers. Still, Kocher pressed to keep them in jail. And after a judge ordered them released on bond, immigration officials stepped in with an order to keep them locked up, superceding the judge.

Latcham and Hope spent the weeks shuttling among jails in Wake, Edgecombe and Alamance counties, sleeping on mats on the floor.

"It isn't human," Latcham said of his jail stay. "My dog eats better than the food in there."

Slivinski's wife, Jan, said that during daily phone calls, the men's wives were so distraught they could hardly speak. She said they were afraid their husbands would not be home for Christmas.

Admitting to a felony

After two court hearings, one of them in New Bern, federal officials agreed to drop charges of importing firearms.

Kingsbery said they offered to let Latcham and Hope go home if the men admitted to failing to report the silencers on their customs forms, a felony.

He said they didn't understand the complex customs form, which serves to make sure travelers pay duty on items they bring into the country. No duty is assessed until the items reach $100, which the silencers did not, Kingsbery said.


"In my judgment, they committed no crime," Kingsbery said. "But they pleaded because they wanted to go home."

Kocher said she believes the men misunderstood the law and had no plans to commit violence, which is why she agreed to drop the more serious charges. But she said they did violate the law.

"The government's overriding concern is always a deterrent for the next guy getting on the plane," Kocher said. "As an American, it blows my mind that someone would put firearms in their luggage and think there wouldn't be a problem."

I'll let the article and some emphasis speak for itself.

One question, though, do they teach mens rea in law school anymore?
 
Unbelievable...I can't blame them for not wanting to come back after that, and why the heck is the prosecuter calling a silencer a 'firearm' last I knew it didn't fire a think, ESPECIALLY not when it's designed for an airgun...
 
That is just rediculous. A FELONY for not filling out a form properly. I looked at the form and it didn't have any questions about firearms and the questions asking about value seem geared toward commercial business not gifts. Think they would have been charged with a felony and spent all that time in jail if it had been a bottle of wine or expensive handbag they had not put on their forms? If they had brought them for their own use and were taking them back with them (theres another nightmare scenario) they wouldn't have needed to declare them at all.
 
The US Attorney's Office should have allowed the unlawful importation charge to stick and should have added a posession of a non-registered NFA item charge as well as a posession of a firearm by a non-immigrant alien/prohibited posessor charge as well. The customs charge they were allowed to plead out to sounds like malarchy. If they landed in North Carolina, the local DA should have looked into posession of weapons of mass death and destruction charges against them too.

Detchable airgun silencers are considered firearm silencers and fall under the NFA, because it is possible for them to reduce the report of some gunshot, even if just for 1 shot- and they may be attached to a firearm. If they did even 5 minutes of research, they would have known that.

They did not lack mens rea, the term knowingly as it pertains to NFA violations has been defined in case law as pertaining to knowledge that the item was posessed/ what it was- something they admitted. The can't claim they did not know that registration was necessary.

The law might be wrong, but it is the law none the less.
 
They did not lack mens rea, the term knowingly as it pertains to NFA violations has been defined in case law as pertaining to knowledge that the item was posessed/ what it was- something they admitted. The can't claim they did not know that registration was necessary.

Given that they didn't have to register it in their home country they can
probably claim that they did not know registration was necessary here.
After all the UK is normally so much more restrictive than we are. ;)

However, I'd like to focus on the first part of your statement: so under NFA,
all that is required is possession of the undeclared untaxed item rather than
any intent to use it in a violent crime against another human being?

So is this really just about tax evasion rather than violent crime?
 
quote:
Immigration officials stepped in with an order to keep them locked up, superceding the judge.

Yeah hold these two guys that are legit, but don't worry about the 500,000 illegle aliens from Mexico that are ruining our economy everyday.

I understand these guys broke some laws, and we want to be very cautious about who is bringing what into our country, but they new after 24 hours these guys made a mistake and were not terrorist.

Kocher clearly states she wanted to make examples out of these two. What a bunch of c&^p from a women that is a nobody trying to be somebody.

Probably a hunter hater also.
 
...

confirms my feelings towards visiting the US ever again.

Of course the great nature and the chance to have fun at a range
is tempting - but i don´t wanna be under a prosecution, that
cannot differentiate between good people and gangsters.

the "LAW" always seems to be a dictatorship of regulations,
when you look at how it is handled in the US.
 
As an ex resident of England, and now a Permanent resident of the US of A, and a gun guy! I never would have made that mistake, the first thing they should have done was scream blue murder to the British Consulate, then shut up!

Like all law-abiding people from everywhere, they talk too much.

And the DA thought they were guns, silly xxx

But the law is the law!
 
confirms my feelings towards visiting the US ever again.
Yes, this is how we treat every visitor from Europe. That's why millions end up coming here each year.
 
Saying the LAW is the LAW really makes no allowance for the court system. The judicial systems entire purpose is to determine anong other things if the law is applicable in the case before it and if the law meets the requirements of the constitution. In this case the Judge basically said let them out on bond and the federal immigration service (with no justification mentioned) said detain them in jail. (Heil Homeland Security) Now lets say the shoe was on the other foot and you were going to visit a friend in england and taking a lovely stuffed and mounted pheasant (or anything else not illegal in the US and prohibited in England). When you got there you were detained and searched and arrested for importing prohibited items. What do you think our government would do? Frankly I think it was way overreacting. Confiscate the "Illegal" goods and send them on their way. It seems to be just another case of Law Enforcement getting themselves in a tizzy without the facts and then trying to justify it with extreme charges.
 
Hello? Intended for "air guns" are they talking about the fake silencers for the airsoft line of guns? Air guns make almost no noise. There is no law against fake silencers...not yet anyway.

What am I missing?
 
Silencers are attached to the barrels of guns to reduce the amount of noise and light produced when they fire. In the United States, silencers are tightly regulated and are illegal in some states. They are often associated with violent crime.

Really when was the last time a violent crime was commited with a silencer, Besides in The Movies??
 
..just uneducated - don´t know it better - personal employed by gov´t
and given police-rights.

They repeat "it´s the law" till they have absolutely no
wisdom, initiative or common sense left to actually evaluate
what their own senses take in.

i´d feel much safer in an arab medina amidst quran-students
than in the presence of customs or police officers in america.

The problem is: If someone ( a mass of people) follows a doctrine
beyond their own wisdom or belief - then you are like the taliban yourself.


( big part of the reason that US inner & foreign politics
are picked on in the rest of the world)
 
Just a quick question about these silencers. First off are they even made of metal or plastic? Second could they be attached to a firearm? Would they actually reduce noise on real firearm?







He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
 
silencers for air guns are quite popular over hear and do have an effect on a rifle thats up to the limit 12feet per square inch pressure anymore and its a firearm so a fire arms certificate needed
in fact silencers or moderators are not a problem for most weapons in the UK
 
It's the absence of rational thought in cases like this that drives me up the wall. "The law is the law" is about as weak-minded an excuse to go berzerk as anything there is.

Customs form? Under $100 value, so no red-tape crime. Legal item in source country? Okay, confiscate if illegal here; "Sorry, but you can't bring that into the U.S." Intent? Easy enough to check out their story about the purpose of travel, with a few phone calls.

Supercede a judge? That's really constitutional, isn't it? It's supposed to be that law enforcement tells a prosecutor who then explains it all to a judge who then rules and the prosecutor and law enforcement folks obey the judge.

Paranoid bureaucracy run amok. Sounds a lot like some African backwater thugocracy.

Art
 
People like YOU are the problem with America.

We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. If people could go through the vasrious legal codes that govern our nation and pick and choose which laws they want to abide by we would likely end up in a state of disorder pretty quickely- even if people chose only to break laws that were universally considered Mala Prohibita.

Customs form? Under $100 value, so no red-tape crime. Legal item in source country? Okay, confiscate if illegal here; "Sorry, but you can't bring that into the U.S." Intent? Easy enough to check out their story about the purpose of travel, with a few phone calls.
I respect your sentiments Art. However, I have to wonder, would we be thinking the same if they were Columbians busted at some port of entry for brining a little bit of cocaine to give to their American friends that they were coming to visit. After all, personal use quantities of that (and most other) drugs are legal in Columbia and our drug laws just punish a victimless crime. I hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from.

The Constitutional duty of the federal executive branch (which the US Attorney's office is a part of) is to enforce the laws of the United States. That leaves them with, in my mind, an obligation to attempt to prosecute people for the offenses they have allegedly committed.

Of course, if they had decided to go to trial, and their lawyer brought up a good 'the law is bad' argument there is a chance that the jurors would have engaged in some nullification by jury. Contrary to what you may believe based on the rest of my post, I do have some belief in jury nullification, and there is a chance that I would not have voted to convict them if I was on their jury.
 
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Pistols are legal in most states over here..How do you think the customs authorities would react if you were caught "importing' a pistol into the UK? IIRC silencers are considered a firearm.
 
That is just rediculous.[sic] A FELONY for not filling out a form properly.

You think thats cute, try putting an SKS into a modern stock without replacing a few foreign components with identical american made components. Hellooooooo federal charges.

Isn't the law fun?
 
[sarcasm]
Given the propensity of federal law enforcement to Wacoize "compounds" under Ruby Ridge Rules of Engagement over allegations of improper paperwork on gun parts (usually citing anonymous snitches with no knowledge of what's legal or illegal), those British scofflaws got off easy.
[/sarcasm]

They actually sound like me: gun laws that punish people for owning 'bad' objects more severely than some people are punished for DOING bad acts, and federales who enforce those laws with no sense of porportion or justice, tick me off.
 
Come on guys, they were obviously terrorists, just like the five year old clutching a water bottle - watch out for those water bombs, you know? And that woman with the hair gel in her suitcase, definitely an al qaeda member!

I think we should just kill everyone who tries to board an airplane - I mean, if they're not there to blow up the plane, why else are they there!? God bless america!
 
This is Grade A for Absurd.

In the first place, suppressors for air guns are in a gray area as far as NFA is concerned. Now, with the new .17 caliber rimfire ammo, it's going to be pretty hard to pass an detachable suppressor as not NFA, but that is another point.

The point is, most sensible Customs officials understand that some people don't have a solid grasp of foreign laws. They might seize an item, or require that it be held in bonded storage until you take it back with you, but this is absurd.

And for the record, it is NOT illegal to bring arms into the United States. You do have to have your paperwork in order. See the ATF web site for details and conveniently downloadable forms.
 
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