Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

BTHP

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Mencius, Feb 17, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mencius

    Mencius Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    South Carolina
    What do you think of using boat tail hollow points for deer hunting in a 308? I was thinking of using the 168 grain bullets.
     
  2. Bio-Chem

    Bio-Chem Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Utah
    Which bullet are you talking about exactly?
     
  3. v8stang289

    v8stang289 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Eastern NC
    If they are match bullets then I wouldn't because they most likely will not expand and will perform no differently than a FMJ. If they are designed for expansion and hunting large game then they should be fine.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    I am not a big fan of BT bullets for hunting, unless they are bonded core, partition, or otherwise core-locked somehow.

    Otherwise, the boat tail jacket acts just like a Jacobs chuck in a drill press.

    One whack to loosen it from the taper friction fit, and the tool falls out.

    The same will happen to the lead core of a boat-tail bullet when it hits a game animal and starts to mushroom.

    IOW: Core / jacket separation.

    rc
     
  5. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    10,002
    Location:
    Georgia
    All bullets are designed to work a certain way. Any can be effective if used properly. You have described many match bullets designed for target shooting. I know some have used them for hunting successfuly. I'm not willing to take that chance. The Berger Hunting bullet is the exception. It is basically what you have described, but with a thinner jacket to expand quickly.

    Partitions, Accubonds, an Barnes TTSX bullets are designed to penetrate. They do a good job at that, but expansion is not as good as with some others. They kill game just fine, but you don't get the drop in their tracks reaction as often.

    I have no problem with BT bullets such as Hornady SST's, Nosler Ballistic Tips or Berger Hunting bullets as long as the shooter understands how they work. They tend to give fairly shallow penetration, but explosive expansion. As long as you put one in the lungs they will drop game very quickly. FWIW, I'd use the 168 Berger hunting bullet, not the match bullets in my 308. They are not the bullet you want for shooting fleeing game in the butt. Or for shooting larger game. These are what the Partitions, Accubonds, and TTSX bullets are designed for.

    Choose the right bullet for the job and use it correctly and they all work
     
  6. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    43,167
    Location:
    Terlingua, TX; Thomasville,GA
    After a bunch of years of messing with all sorts of 30-caliber bullets, I figure that in a .308, any 150-grain flat-base which gives decent groups around one MOA will do just fine to 400 yards, easily.

    HPBTs can easily make more mess than was intended. Not always, of course, but it sometimes turns out to be Yuck City. :)
     
  7. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,569
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    That is the question.

    As some posters have mentioned, some BTHP bullets act more like solids; not that that's an always bad thing. Berger makes BTHP bullets specifically for hunting and I can attest that they work well. Some Barnes TSX bullets are also of BTHP design; no problem there either. Also, all those pretty bullets with the plastic tips are essentially of hollow point design. For those who think the plastic tip does more than make them pretty, protect the bullet tip or provide a slightly better ballistic shape, think again.

    If the desire for a BTHP design is for better perceived long range performance, I would say don't bother unless ranges are expected to be 500+ yards.
     
  8. osprey176

    osprey176 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    452
    Location:
    SC,Midlands
    Most 168 lead core bullets are match bullets.The 165's are usually the game bullets.Be sure you use bullets designed for the task at hand. I spent several hours tracking a deer hit twice through the lungs with a 168 hpbt a few years back.I needed to finish the deer after finding it.The wounds were all the same size,entrance,and exit.Doesn't' t matter how good the load groups if the bullet won't do the job when it gets there.
     
  9. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,429
    Location:
    Palestine TX
    Serria BTHP aka Match Kings. NO, does not expand or yaw reliably at all.
    Berger VLDs. YES but only the Hunting version
    Barnes TSX. HELL YEAH Awsome terminal performance.
    Nosler Custom Competition. No idea never used them. Would not chance it, they were not designed for that.
    Hornady Match. Also no idea.
     
  10. splattergun

    splattergun Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,664
    Location:
    Utah
    Most, if not all, states require expanding ammunition for hunting. If your choice is, for example, between Sierra Match KIng v Sierra Game King, choose the SGK for hunting, SMK for competition. Unless you really like tracking deer wounded by a clean pass-thru instead of walking up to an animal killed by significant trauma from a well-built game bullet.
     
  11. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,429
    Location:
    Palestine TX
    Pass through or blow up, I have seen SMKs do both (not of my shooting) if they do yaw the thin jacket comes apart and you have a fragmentation device, if it blows up in the vitals it can make for a quick kill but that requires a healthy dose of luck and is not even remotely reliable from what I have seen, should that yaw happen early on that explosion will never reach the vitals and all you have done is make a really nasty flesh wound. If they don't yaw or yaw late you get a clean pass through and a fatally wounded animal you will be tracking for miles. Far too unreliable for my liking, I'll stick with the Game Kings they are remarkably reliable and effective, in fact too effective for these southern whitetail out of a 30-06.
     
  12. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,569
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Interestingly, solids are used for the biggest animals in the world; why?

    Some hunters use muzzleloader and shotgun projectiles that don't expand.

    Arrows don't expand.

    It's also interesting that some admantly want good penetration of a bullet while others want great expansion and a bullet that expands inside the animal, does't expand and doesn't pass through. Fortunately, there is a plethora of bullet designs that should be able to satisfy both parties.
     
  13. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,429
    Location:
    Palestine TX
    Yes monolithic solids designed to create serious damage without expanding, you cannot compare the terminal damage from a large caliber flat nose solid to a 7mm pointy boat tail spritzer, night and day difference. Don't you think that if DU tipped armor piercing rounds made for as much trauma hunters would have been using them a long time ago? Large caliber solids are a whole different game, I can try to track down some of the studies I have read if you are interested.
    BTW I have arrow heads that expand, they are called mechanical broad heads you can get them at Wal-Mart :)
     
  14. Mencius

    Mencius Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Thanks for the thoughts guys. I guess I have been kinda in search of a bullet that will be good for everything; hunting, punching paper, etc. I think I am going to go the other way and just get soft points or some sort of hunting ammo. I like the Remington Core Lokt and had two quick kills with them this year. Seem like they are reasonably priced as well.

    Actually, once this ammo hysteria dies back down I plan to get several hunting rounds in the ~165 grain range and see which prints the best and then start "accumulating" that.

    At the moment any 308 that is reasonably priced seems difficult.
     
  15. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,569
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Let me point out that not all monolithic solids are flat nosed and there is no requirement for hunting dangerous game that they be flat nosed. The reason they are used is for their better penetration. So, in some applications, using a solid in a small bore cartridge would be best. Granted, am expanding bullet creates more trauma and should kill faster provided it reaches vital organs.

    I know about mechanical broadheads by the way but as far as I know there is no State where bow hunting is allowed where there is a requirement to use them. In addition, I would wager that any solid bullet out of a centerfire rifle or handgun will cause as much if not more trauma than a broadhead.

    I believe that Remington Core-Lokts are a greatly under appreciated bullet. I use them in a 270 Winchester with excellent results both in accuracy and knock down ability. Of the 3 deer I've taken with them, 2 were DRT and the other only went maybe 10 feet but there wasn't bullet pass through which would be a problem for some.
     
  16. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    22,190
    A friend has hunted with Sierra BT Game Kings, not Match Kings, for years.
    He says the cores do separate from the jackets.
    How does he know?
    He digs them out of DEAD animals.
     
  17. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,044
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    I shoot Nosler 150 BTs at 2800 fps. I don't have a problem with meat damage and I've penetrated ONE 8 point from butt to neck, probably 4 feet of deer, with an exit wound. Never recovered a bullet even from a hog. Folks tell me that the BT is too explosive for deer and should NEVER be used on a hog. I just laugh at 'em. They have been improved over the years, but I've been shootin' 'em for 15 years and not seen a problem with 'em. I like the BCs. :D

    I shoot game kings in my .257 Roberts and my 7 mag. They ARE kinda explosive, especially at 3200 fps from the 7 mag, but I ain't had a deer walk away from one, yet.
     
  18. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,044
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Oh, dang, sorry, this thread is about hollow points. Well, the BT is a hollowpoint, just has a plastic tip stuffed in the point. :D

    Most of the hollow points I've seen are for match, would not trust one to open up. Wolf markets a HP for the 7.62x39, worthless as a hunting round regardless of what they claim. I prefer soft points for hunting and in that caliber, affordable (read cheap), the 154 soft points work.

    Were I the OP, I'd forget about HPs for hunting except in .22LR for rabbits.
     
  19. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,429
    Location:
    Palestine TX
    What is wrong with Barnes and Sierra HP bullets? I don't ever hear anyone knowledgeable bad talking them ever, heck I use them. Had good luck with a few poly tips too, not going to say they best my Game Kings, but I would never hesitate to use a 6.5mm Ballistic Tip for deer again, impressive performance to say the least.
     
  20. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,044
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    The 168s he's talking about, I just figured Sierra since it's a common match bullet, I've never seen 'em in a game bullet, only the Match Kings. The Game King is a soft point boat tail with similar BCs and I shoot them in two of my rifles. They works great. :D If it's made for shooting game, they probably work. If it's made for match, no.

    Barnes, sure, I've used 140 Barnes on hogs, work great. That's what they're designed for, expansion to the end of the hollow cavity, then it stops. It's an all copper bullet unlike the Match Kings I think the OP is referring to, whole nuther animal.

    I shoot a 150 Game King in 7mm. I have 150 Match Kings in 7mm I used to shoot in IHMSA from a 7mmTCU. Two completely different bullets with different purposes. The Match Kings are tack drivers, but I would doubt they'd expand. The hollow in the point is only there to reduce weight at the front of the bullet, gives it better balance and, thus, accuracy. When we're talking bench rest, 0.01 MOA could mean a win or a loss.
     
  21. Kachok

    Kachok Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,429
    Location:
    Palestine TX
    Oh OK I thought you meant any hollow point, in which case I would have to enthusiastically disagree, those Sierra Game King hollow points are devastating on game, maybe too much so. I only have them for my 30 cals but I know they make them for 6.5mm and 7mm as well.
    I think we can all agree that match bullets belong on the range and not in the field. Some would try and make a case for the A-Max for 600+yd shooting because they expand at such low speeds, but most of us don't shoot game that far out, I sure don't.
     
  22. mnhntr

    mnhntr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,135
    Location:
    MN
    I have shot several deer with 142gr 6.5mm Sierra Match kings and they all dropped in their tracks. Also shot a deer and several yotes with Hornady 75gr BTHP match and had the same results. As for the people saying these do not expand or perform like a FMJ, thats BS. These are thin jacketed bullets that will come apart hitting heavy bone. The bigger concern is Shot placement. The best bullet does no good when put in the guts of a deer. I shoot them in the neck and do not need to track them.
     
  23. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,569
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    [​IMG]

    Notice the exit wound on this groundhog. It was hit with a 190 gr. Sierra Match King out of a 300 Win. Mag. Obviously no expansion; probably because there was no heavy bone to hit.

    [​IMG]

    Notice the exit wound on this pronghorn antelope made with a 300 Weatherby and a 168 gr. Berger VLD. This happened in the days before there was a distinction between target VLDs and hunting VLDs. Another obvious case of no bullet expansion.

    [​IMG]

    There was no exit wound on this deer shot with a 115 gr. Berger VLD out of a 25/06 because the bullet hit it in the rear and didn't exit the front of the chest. An obvious case of bullet failure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  24. Lloyd Smale

    Lloyd Smale Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,953
    Location:
    Munising MI
    had a buddy who used to do crop damage shooting back before i ever did that used mostly a 300 win mag using 168 griain match bullets. He swore by the combination and killed many many deer with it. IF it wouldnt have worked well im sure he would have used something else.
     
  25. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,044
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Use what ya want. GAME King means it's built to expand reliably and predictably on GAME. MATCH Kings are designed to be accurate with NO consideration for shooting animals. Since they cost the same and GAME Kings are quite accurate in the guns I shoot 'em in (1/2 MOA in my .257 Roberts shooting a 100 grain Game King), why would I shoot a bullet not designed for hunting? I mean, does a deer rifle need to be better than 1/2" at 100 yards for 5 shots accurate? Really? That translates to 2" groups at 400 yards, my absolute limit even for a coyote and I would prefer closer 300 yards on deer in the interest of sufficient energy with the Roberts.

    Use the bullet designed to work for the application. You're not saving money and you could lose meat with the Match Kings. It's a no brainer. It's simple logic! Why argue to use the wrong bullet. Would you pull your travel trailer with your Toyota Prius? Would you drive it down a 4x4 trail? It ain't made for that. Oh, it MIGHT work, then again.....
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page