Buckshot loading question

.38 Special

.38 Special

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
8,520
I have an essentially unlimited supply of once-fired Remington Gun Club 12 gauge hulls. I also have lots and lots of 700x and WAA12 wads. Hodgdon shows a 1 1/8 oz load for that combination.

The issue is that I'd like to use 00 buck to make inexpensive "training" loads. I can layer them in 3x3 with moderate finger pressure and the fold crimp looks fine. There is light dimpling on the outside of the finished shell, but they cycle just fine and I don't care about appearance or longevity - I'm not picking up these empties.

So, is this a safe-if-poor-performing combo, or am I going to blow myself up?
 
If you are able to insert true 0.330" of OO buckshot in a 3 x 3 stack pattern into a wad, you are doing better than me. Most of us have to use a wad intended for 1 1/4 oz payload, then stack 4 layers of 2's. That makes for a 1 oz payload. That stacks easy.The problem being finding wads intended for 1 1/4 oz payloads. Few are still made. Option B is to drop down to 0 buck in the 0.315 range (you get that from BPI). Those will stack in 3's to easily fit in most wad intended for 1 1/8 oz payloads.

After that, you have to assume and accept that an oz is an oz.......be it small diameter shot or buckshot. If you can do that, then the load works. But even at that, 700X is going to top out at target load velocities.

Most published load data for buckshot assumes shooter wants so hammer something hard in 1,350 to 1,400 fps range......and get their shoulder hammered equally hard as well. Not everyone is wanting that. So dropping back to trap load levels has it's appeal.
 
Thanks for that, @Howa 9700. I'd cut open a cheap Winchester "military" shell which had "00 buck" printed on it - just to see what was in it - and used those balls in my experiment. I'd assumed they were .330, but you called it: about .320. So I've ordered a bag of the nickel-plated .315 from BPI, and appreciate your post.

(Oh, and yeah, I'm finding that a day of training with full-power buckshot is a little too much fun, so knocking a few hundred feet per second off these rounds is sounding like a really good plan!)
 
I have loaded a fair amount of buck but didn't use modern shot cups. I have an old box of Alcan Quik-Serts, a thin butterfly shot shield. Powder, Alan PGS, a fiber wad, Q-S, three layers of three OOB, a little Grex sifted in, crimp.
I was taught never to put a card over buck nd roll crimp unless you want reverse dimples on the outside of your barrels, unless you have the old frangible top card.
I have never been impressed with buck much past thirty yards unless it was some of the modern stuff.
I cast some raally hard .311 round balls and loaded them as above. Wow, much better patterns.
 
Last edited:
Akula69 said:
Why use a wad? Use a BPI/ Tom Arburst tested load with a gas seal and a Teflon wrap around 9 pellets of 00. Everything fits fine. ~11,000 PSI and the pattern is about 6 inches at 40 feet a 18 inch (no choke) barrel.

PM me if you want the load data.
Click to expand...
Honestly, it's because I'm lazy. I have the BPI buckshot manual, and am intrigued by the idea, but mostly I am just burning a lot of ammo while getting up to snuff with the defensive shotgun, and don't want to spend any more time at the loading bench than I have to!
 
For low recoil, I would prefer loading a top grade 8 pellet "00" buckshot, with buffer, pushed in the low 1200 fps range. A 2 pellet per layer stack provides a fluid passage through forcing cone and choke constrictions. Yes - for better patterns.

Suggested choke constriction, with a two pellet per layer stack, is actual pellet diameter x 2 and wad petal thickness X 2. Add those two figures together for a choke constriction that will consolidate rather than compress the pellets.


Since the OP has 700X powder, here are two such a published loads, using Remington Figure 8 wads, (or clones), and BP original buffer. See page 35 of the IMR data sourced below:


Note: Per SAAMI standards "00 Buckshot" Is nominally .33" + .015"
That is .315" to .345" is the range of pellet diameters the industry has deemed to be 00B
 
Last edited:
Here are a couple loads I put together using true #00, 0.330 buckshot some old Rem Power Piston wads and Rem STS and Nitro gold hulls (would load same as Gun Club hulls). I used the STS and Nitro wads to color code them.

One on the right is an 8 pellet 1 oz payload of true #00 buck (0.330) stacked 2 x 4 using SP-12 wad and Green Dot powder. One on the left is 10 pellet, 1 1/4 oz payload stacked 2 x 5 using RP-12 wad and Longshot powder. In both cases, used middle of the road load data for those hulls, primers, powders and payload, only swapping out the wad.

Didn't mention these before as not everyone has access to these now obsolete Rem power piston wads. The yellow wad in the middle is the CB clone of old Win wad intended for 1 1/4 payload, but cup size does not allow you to use them for buckshot. Not sure they would even work for 1 1/4 oz payload of bird shot. They are essentially same size as old Win AA white wads.

IMG_0917.jpg
 
Claybuster also has one...........theirs is black.......

CLAYBUSTER WAD 12ga 1-1/4 STRAIGHT WALL 5000/CS - Graf & Sons

CLAYBUSTER WAD 12ga 1-1/4 STRAIGHT WALL 5000/CS
www.grafs.com www.grafs.com

In this case.......from left to right.......clones for Win AA red, Win AA white, then the DR clone of Win AA 1 1/4 oz (yellow) and CB clone of Win AA 1 1/4 (black).

If you really want a 1 1/4 oz payload.....at least using larger size shot (say #5 or larger) you may have to use the Red wad, and allow shot to stand proud of the cup.

Once you leave the comfortable confines of standard target loads, there are a lot of moving parts to account for.

IMG_0907.jpg
 
Interesting.

Claybuster's foray into redesigned straight wall wads is most interesting. The question then is will the CB tapered "yellow" 114 type - albeit just a another AA12 clone - be quietly discontinued.
 
Last edited:
I misspoke. Was out in the barn earlier to day and the black CB wad for 1 1/4 oz payloads is to be used in straight walled hulls. From length of it, that might be Federal Gold Medal and Federal paper. Might also work for larger shot in Fiocchi, Federal Top Gun, etc. That is apparently what CB came up with instead of cloning the 12S4 wad.

So DR yellow wad for 1 1/4 oz payloads in tapered hulls.
CB black wad for 1 1/4 oz payloads in straight walled.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Here are a couple loads I put together using true #00, 0.330 buckshot some old Rem Power Piston wads and Rem STS and Nitro gold hulls (would load same as Gun Club hulls). I used the STS and Nitro wads to color code them.

One on the right is an 8 pellet 1 oz payload of true #00 buck (0.330) stacked 2 x 4 using SP-12 wad and Green Dot powder. One on the left is 10 pellet, 1 1/4 oz payload stacked 2 x 5 using RP-12 wad and Longshot powder. In both cases, used middle of the road load data for those hulls, primers, powders and payload, only swapping out the wad.

Didn't mention these before as not everyone has access to these now obsolete Rem power piston wads. The yellow wad in the middle is the CB clone of old Win wad intended for 1 1/4 payload, but cup size does not allow you to use them for buckshot. Not sure they would even work for 1 1/4 oz payload of bird shot. They are essentially same size as old Win AA white wads.

View attachment 1229011
Click to expand...
Ever the optimist, I hope the RP12 wad returns to the scene - original or clone. The one inch deep shotcup makes it, arguably, the most versatile one piece hunting wad for 2.75" tapered hulls. Especially with the availability of current 1.125 and 1.25 ounce buffered lead shot load data from Tom Roster.

See: https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=TMTR&i=M444

This data is also readily adapted to a number of buckshot pellet diameters loaded flush with the shotcup - such as

.34" in a 8 x 2 stack.
.32" in a 10 x 2 stack (nominal #0B)
.30" in a 12 x 2 or 12 x 3 stack (nominal #1B)
.285" in a 16 x 4 stack (defacto factory loaded #1B)

The .30" and .32" diameter pellets loaded in stacks of two per layer are the most "choke friendly" and with spherical buffer tend to flow very smoothly through tight choke constrictions.
 
Last edited:
I don't know how many 12 gauge buckshot shells you need to shoot to get "up to snuff" with a shotgun, but if you need more than a flat of 250, I think a lesson would be money better spent. Promotional buckshot loads for range blasting are so inexpensive, I can't see the point of the hassle and annoyance in stocking a separate inventory of wads, powder, gas seals, overshot cards, wraps, etc.... just to load your own buckshot.

PS. Yes, I load thousands of target shells annually in 3 different gauges.
 
I may be missing something, but the least expensive buckshot loads I have found are still in the neighborhood of a buck a piece. And that's before California's ridiculous ammunition laws take their cut...

At any rate, a good deal of this ammunition is for classes. I am a big believer in training, and have several classes scheduled - together requiring nearly a thousand rounds, though most of that is birdshot.

At any rate, the lightly-loaded .315" from BPI, 3x3, patterns well and is easy on my shoulder, so should be a good plan for high-round-count days. It also cleans up nicely; some of the lower-end factory loads badly lead up my bore.

The 2x4 layering of true 00 is worth looking into. Somewhere I have a .330" gang mold floating around...
 
Right or wrong, a lot of my reloading mind set was affected by what happened a few years back when ammo shelves went empty a few years back, then stayed that way. As a consequence I am now my own ammo factory. Can load just about anything but rimfire. Buckshot is merely an extension of this. And it takes little to no more additional supply than the right sized container of buckshot. Same for Lee slugs. May not ever need them, but comforting to know you can.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Right or wrong, a lot of my reloading mind set was affected by what happened a few years back when ammo shelves went empty a few years back, then stayed that way. As a consequence I am now my own ammo factory. Can load just about anything but rimfire. Buckshot is merely an extension of this. And it takes little to no more additional supply than the right sized container of buckshot. Same for Lee slugs. May not ever need them, but comforting to know you can.
Click to expand...
This is my mindset.... make what you want, don't depend on the system.... I'm brandy new to shotgun loading so I don't have a supply yet....
 
It all revolves around using a pellet diameter and stack pattern that fits within the shotcup. The ammunition industry has been doing this for a very long time.* You will seldom find a factory buckshot load filled with nominal diameter pellets regardless of the analog pellet size on the box. Most "00B" and "#1B" commercially loaded today, run closer to .32" and .285" respectively

*1963: Winchester introduced the first commercial buckshot load with buffer and a plastic shot collar. To make that load fit with a traditional 3 pellet stack; 00B pellets had to be reduced to .323" diameter. This was documented in Jack O'Connor's work, The Shotgun Book, published in the mid-1960s.
 
Last edited:
AJC1 said:
This is my mindset.... make what you want, don't depend on the system.... I'm brandy new to shotgun loading so I don't have a supply yet....
Click to expand...
Same here. I have loaded a total of six 12ga shells using Competition and #4 Buck in WWA wads and WW hulls. I shot a couple for proofing and nothing blew up so I guess I did okay.

Great topic! Very educational.
 
Insight into some options and possibilities.........some buckshot and slug loads. These were placed in clear, new, never fired Fiocchi hulls. Advantage is you can tell what you have at a glance. Third load from left......orange wad.....is a 6 pellet, true #00 buck load........3/4 oz using Hodgdon load data for 3/4 oz payloads. Powder puff buckshot?

IMG_0341.jpg
 
Last edited:
Found my buckshot mold, sitting in a box with its own failed pours. I'd forgotten how much trouble I had getting that thing to work. Still, I'm attached to the idea - for my purposes, I don't need anything like perfect shot, and the factory stuff is shockingly expensive. I suspect I just need to get the mold ridiculously hot, and then I will be trying the 2x2x2x2 stack.
 
Last edited:
Ranger99 said:
Check some of the Bubba Rountree
Outdoors shotshell loading videos
online
He loads all manners and sizes of
shells with various shot sizes and
wads and powders etc., then does
targets on his range afterwards
Click to expand...
Yes, I've been watching them. It's funny; exactly the sort of nonsense I get up to with metallic reloading, but I am so ignorant of shotshells that I'm afraid to try any of it!
 
Bubba is long on doing stuff, but short on explaining what he is doing and the why of it. Some of his loads appear to be off the charts silly. Watch them if you like the entertainment.......but go slow on trying to duplicate any of that.

I liked his videos on making buckshot from various molds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
More Buckshot Load Questions!
Replies
10
Views
3K
jojo200517
J
W
  • Locked
Buckshot Loads - 3rd Range Report!
Replies
1
Views
871
Wittenmeyer
W
D
  • Locked
Buckshot loads
Replies
7
Views
2K
ArchAngelCD
ArchAngelCD
BigBore45
  • Locked
load check12 gauge 00 buck
Replies
6
Views
797
LeonCarr
L
O
  • Locked
Question Concerning Shotshell Reloading
Replies
5
Views
611
ants
A
Back
Top