Buckshot thru extra-full chokes?

[wankerjake]

Can anybody clarify for me what chokes are safe to shoot 00 buckshot thru and what aren't? As far as my searches go, it looks like slugs should normally be kept thru modified chokes or smaller, but I'm not finding as much info on 00 buck. I ask because I bought an extra full "dead coyote" choke which I'll normally shoot #4 buck thru, but was wondering if 00 buck would also be safe?

 

[MCgunner]

I wouldn't shoot it through X Full. Buck doesn't like to compress. I shoot modified and get decent 40 yard patterns in my 10 gauge. I have an Imp Mod (slightly more constriction) that was given to me that I want to try. I have an X full, but won't shoot buck through that for fear of damage.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Interesting choice -- IMO, yes, supposedly those chokes are specifically designed for above average shot including Buckshot at long range. Decent prices in my opinion usually too. I would make sure it is lead though, regardless. The real problem, if any, would be Steel Shot which you aren't gonna find in the big buckshot sizes anyway. Hunters Specialties makes an interesting Super Full choke tube I've considered and they do recommend lead or copper-plated lead only. I use a Remington Straight Rifled Turkey Super Full "Lead Shot Only" choke for those extra-long-range shotgun shots, however, the 70 yard claims of the Dead Coyote s/be taken with a grain of salt -- my personal opinion is these take the optimal and effective range, both, out to 45-50 yards with big buckshot. Anything smaller, and even these past this range, has lost too much energy to be particulalry effective anymore unless you get lucky. Buckshot lose about 70% of their energy by 35 meters. Slugs? Probably not an issue as they're usually nice n soft, but, I wouldn't do it and I/C or Mod are usually considered optimal.

What gun? Show us a pic installed!

Al

 

[wankerjake]

Yeah, mostly I'll be running #4 buck thru it, just wondering if it will safely handle bigger in case I'm short on #4 buck or something, or if I want to shoot for fun. I'd like to pattern 00 buck with it though, I have some 12 pellet loads that might work pretty well on predators if the pattern is good. But mostly I don't want to mess up my barrel, so if 00 buck might hurt it then I'll probably just not try it. Regardless I feel like I should know the protocol on buck vs. chokes... good general knowledge.

the 70 yard claims of the Dead Coyote s/be taken with a grain of salt

Yeah definetely, more often than not I'm sure they escape with a bad belly ache. Not too cool in my opinion. Shots on coyotes I try to keep under 50 yards, 20-40 even better. I'd have to have a smokin' pattern at 70 yards to even attempt it, and I'm not likely to test that.

 

[Youngster]

A lot of larger buck loads don't even like as much as a Modified constriction, I don't think the Dead Coyote choke will hurt anything though.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Measure Twice, Cut a Check Once

My Rem. Turkey choke above has a .665 constriction, the same as Dead Dog chokes (which, again, like Dead Coyote are DESIGNED specifically for big shot including Buckshot to go long distances tightly), promises to put 85+% of a pattern in the traditional 30" circle (usually expected to get 70-75% at the optimal range) at 40 yards. Sure, Remington was probably thinking .18 diameter lead BB shot. But the Dead Coyote, which gets good reviews in practical use with buckshot, is .660, so, I'm stickin' with mine. Not only 'cause it isn't quite so tight but also becasue I'm cheap -- I already have it, it cost me $14 OTD at a gunshow, and 'cause I'll probably never need to use it...

The gun it is for (see below) currently wears a Modified choke Rem. tactical tube, and it'd be the rare, but possible, occassion when I'd feel compelled to switch choke tubes to reach out to 50 yards or beyond. Yes, I wanted the choice but a Modified choke should still easily have most of its shot within a 5-foot circle at 50 yards -- for what is basically now a tactical arm I can certainly live with that! Again, at that kind of distance and beyond, even big buckshot has lost so much of its energy that the multiple hits required to deliver enough energy to kill is pushing the envelope. That said, I do have "some" 3" Mag #1 Buckshot that I think would be interesting for that...

Al

 

[MCgunner]

My 10 shoots 83 percent with 00 through modified choke. That's 15 of 18 inside the 30" circle at 40 yards. To me, that's pretty good, and I always seemed to get one or two in the center on a hog's head size target.

 

[DBR]

In my experience Pattern Master chokes http://www.patternmaster.com/
do a very good job of holding tight patterns with large shot so long as the shell uses a shot cup.

 

[trol79]

Dead dog/Dead coyote-choke? What is that? please explain to me...

 

[wankerjake]

It's just a super full choke (.665-.675) made by several companies (carlson, johnny stewart) that are marketed for predator hunters.

 

[Mr. T]

For X-Full chokes all manutfacturers that I've seen limit them to #4 Buck.

 

[rcmodel]

If in doubt, ask the people who make them.

The Carlson webpage on the Dead Coyote choke says this about that.

For use with Hevi-Shot, Bismuth or lead, this high performance choke tube has been specifically designed for the coyote hunter to deliver devastating downrange patterns upwards of 70 yards when shooting larger shot sizes. Produces very dense patterns when ultilizing T and Buckshot loads. Great for waterfowl and predator hunting.
NOT FOR USE WITH STEEL SHOT

There is no warning about not using 00 buck.

As for how it patterns?
The only way to know is to pattern test it with your barrel.

rc

 

[MCgunner]

Says for "waterfowl and predator", yet "not for steel shot". Hmmmmm. Maybe waterfowling in Canada? T shot is only available to MY knowledge in steel, too. I don't know about those guys.

Also, isn't "dead coyote" loads a hevi shot load? That chokes like steel, can't be used where steel can't be used.

Personally, I've always thought of such chokes as turkey hunting chokes to be used with 4 or 6 lead and patterns tight for head shots.

 

[rcmodel]

It says for "For use with Hevi-Shot, Bismuth or lead".

I assume you would use Hevi-Shot or Bismuth, not steel for waterfowl hunting then.

rc

 

[trol79]

BB & T size shot are in germany sold as buckshot, and rottweil (rottweil express) and at least one other company are selling 4,5mm (BB) & 5,1mm (T) made of lead. maybe they're worth a try?

 

[627PCFan]

My rule of thumb, use higher end shot with the tighter chokes. I currently run copper plated OO though .665 Trulock turkey choke. If it was unplated, I wouldnt push it through a full.

Neither will harm the choke.
Note: Hevishot Buck, all bets are off

 

[Al LaVodka]

JR;
R u saying that due to deformation? I think the LACK of it might be worrying some. I know some of those tight chokes limit their use to lead and/or copper-plated lead only. Rules out my nickel #4 Fiocchi.
Al

 

[wankerjake]

If in doubt, ask the people who make them.

The Carlson webpage on the Dead Coyote choke says this about that.


Quote:
For use with Hevi-Shot, Bismuth or lead, this high performance choke tube has been specifically designed for the coyote hunter to deliver devastating downrange patterns upwards of 70 yards when shooting larger shot sizes. Produces very dense patterns when ultilizing T and Buckshot loads. Great for waterfowl and predator hunting.
NOT FOR USE WITH STEEL SHOT

There is no warning about not using 00 buck.

Well it's a Johnny Stewart choke, not a Carlson's. I looked up their chart and it only lists 4B, BB, 1, 2, 4 shot sizes, but presumably you could shoot anything smaller than 4 buck. I would never attempt to put steel through it. I guess I'll just contact them about 00 buck. Here's the chart if anyone is interested, I have the Remington choke at the top of the chart:
http://www.johnnystewart.com/Updateable/update_display.cfm?pageID=76&categoryID=15

 

[MachIVshooter]

As far as my searches go, it looks like slugs should normally be kept thru modified chokes or smaller,

IC or larger. Cylinder bore is best for slugs. Smaller than M is full or extra full, and I wouldn't want to have my face anywhere near that receiver when a slug tries to get out of that tightly choked tube.

 

[wankerjake]

Yup, modified or larger is what I meant. Sorry.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Seems like a good rule of thumb for BIG buckshot (all lead) might be: Full -->yes, xtra-full/turkey--->no. ??

 

[627PCFan]

"Rules out my nickel #4 Fiocchi" ---Nickel plated is only slightly "harder" than Copper plated/washed" The advantage or THEORY is it retains the "hardness of copper to reduce deformation" and still flows through the choke more efficiently than straight lead. Dont get hung up on that. The pattern is the ultimate factor.

 

[wankerjake]

Got a reply back from Johnny Stewart the other day, here's what they said, if anybody else is still interested...

the choke tube you're referring to would only be rated for #4 buck and smaller diameter shot size. Unfortunately with the larger pellets found in 00 buck you run the risk of choke tube and/or barrel damage when shooting it through an extra full choke

Since they recommend I don't shoot 00 buck thru it, I guess I wont!

 

[Al LaVodka]

Wanker;
Thanks for taking the time to pass that on. I'm seeing some consistency in those parameters and will adopt it for my own -- nothing greater than #4 Buckshot through those Extra and Super Full Turkey chokes. Kinda starts to defeat the purpose then. The heavier shot is what carries terminal energy down range and the extra tight chokes are what make the pattern more useful at long distances, so, it really affirms the fact that shotguns are a 50-yd. working range gun. Period. Now before someone jumps up and down, I'm not saying that they may not have a longer maximum range but it will be marginally effective. Hence the Modified chokes in my extended 20" 870 and 24" H&K Benelli shall stay where they are...
Al

 

[attcb]

carlsons dead coyote was out 10 months before johnny stewarts
the mossberg has a id of .690
the benelli has a id of .665
both will shoot buckshot loads, if you need more specific info carlsons will be more than happy to enlighten you......lol