budget over under

[TTundra]

I don't know if you're the nostalgic type, but I picked up a Marlin 90DT last fall and absolutely fell in love with it. 16 gauge, fixed mod/imp chokes, simple at its best and love the way it feels and swings. Nothing like a American made o/u from the 1940's. Anyway, depending on what gauge you're looking for, they can be had for $350-$700 on GB.

 

[Axis II]

I own a stoeger condor 20ga I picked up used but in 100% condition for $220. I have never had an issue with the gun except one time. I was rabbit hunting with it and shot a rabbit. stoeger doesn't mark their choke tubes so I had no clue what I had in it and ended up wounding the rabbit pretty badly. I attempted to fire a 2nd round at it and no fire. I cracked it open and no fire cause the bottom barrel was empty so I guess didn't latch the top to fire. after taking both empty bottom and top live shell out I was able to put the rabbit down. Only thing I can think is I clicked the safety back to on and it took the top barrel out of commission so I had to open it up to reset it. I did not like that at all and really playing with the idea of a nice short semi auto for my upland hunting.

fit and fishing seems to be very good on mine and I shot 50 clays with it a few summers ago and did pretty well. If I had to do it again for the limited use I put it through I would say I would get the stoeger but if I could have found a better one for a good price I would have went that route.

 

[Coltdriver]

The CZ's are all Turkish shotguns. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just not sure I'd pay a premium for one.

O/U's come up to about a grand then jump straight to 2 grand plus.

I had a Tristar, Turkish O/U. It was a nice looking great shooting shotgun, nice blueing, beautiful Turkish walnut, gloss wood. I got a little more for it selling it than I paid for it and I bought it new. So no complaints. I just sold it to move up to another shotgun. But the Tristar gave me great service over about five seasons.

 

[sappyg]

I don't consider CZ shotguns as premium priced. You get what you get. Not cheap but definitely not premium priced.

OP only states he wants a budget OU and looking for a Stoeger alternative. Well, I've seen steel framed Yildiz popping up at academy lately. A friend has one with 28" barrels he uses for skeet that has maybe 1k down range. He likes it fine. I've watched it for all but 200 rounds and it's been fine but it did have a trigger issue that I thought was a maintenance issue. Same thing happened to my beretta once. Too much gunk in the trigger.

It's light for a steel frame IMO but swings and points well. I wouldn't mind having one myself. I think he has about $450 (usual retail is about $499) in it and for that budget I think it's a fine gun. Way better than my Stoeger Uplander if you ask me.

 

[cdb1]

I would definitely take a Yildiz over a Stoeger.

 

[eastbank]

i don,t see many stoeger,s, CZ,s, yildiz,s or tristar,s at the trap-skeet or sporting clays clubs i shoot at. if you are a regular at the clay sports games the ammo will cost you more than a good shotgun over time. my BT-100 browning is my singles trap shotgun and i have well over 20,000 rounds thru it with out a bobble, and i could sell it any time i want by putting it on the clubs bulletin board for more than i paid for it. cry when you buy and laugh when it lasts. eastbank. case in point 20,000=800 boxesx4.00-4.50=about 3200.00

 

[Charger442]

I would definitely take a Yildiz over a Stoeger.

maybe, they are both not very good guns. only plus to the yildiz is that you get be familiar with academy and their warranty on them. you take your borken gun to them, they give you a new one. ive seen atleast 3 failures of yildiz at sporting clays tournaments. between the 4 guys i know that have them, they have gone through close to 10 of them. none lasted more than 2 flats of shells, as i understand it.

last time i saw it happen, gun wouldnt swap over to fire the other barrel. it didnt shoot the rest of the round.

 

[cdb1]

I wouldn't own a Yildiz either. I'd just take one over a Stoeger.

If shot sporting clays I'd own a Browning at minimum, Bereetta's don't fit or I'd consider them. For hunting I might consider Franchi or a Winchester but would probably stick with Browning. I'm not overly enthused about CZ shotguns either. CZ is my favorite rifle and handgun brand but they are of course not outsourced. And it's not because CZ shotguns are Turkish, I've got a couple of Weatherby semi's I'm happy with.

Then there is the fact I seem to shoot better with a semi than a double, and I don't want to take the time it would take to put in some serious practice to see if could become proficient with a double. The one double I was good with was an ancient Montgomery Wards 16 gauge SxS. It was my first shotgun and sadly was stolen when I was in college. The reason I did ok with it is because I didn't have choice IMO.

If I ever become a fair amount wealthier than now, there is a chance I'd get a custom fitted Grulla 16 gauge SxS, use it for quail and look with distaste at the common people using semi's and pumps.

 

[paulsj]

I am looking to get an over under for upland hunting. I don't have a big budget for it, I have seen the Stoger Condor it felt like a decent gun that I would carry a field but what else is out there for under $700.

There should be plenty out there from Izyevsky Mechaniczny Zavod commonly known as IZH. Those were imported by Remington European American Armory & perhaps some others. While most in USA have hardwood stocks some sold in England even had decent walnut stocks.

 

[Coltdriver]

SappyG, all I meant was you are paying a premium over a Turkish shotgun. Not that a CZ is a premium shotgun.

My FFL deals in premium shotguns. He offered to let me hold one. I asked how much. He said 30K. I declined the offer to hold it. Sure was pretty. He had three others in the case awaiting pick up, each one was worth more than the one he showed me. That's a premium shotgun

But there are lots of good work horses out there. You can cruise the pawn shops and occasionally come up with a good deal on a previously decent shotgun. That Tristar I had was $400 new.

 

[f451]

If new, CZ over Stoeger every time. In fact, CZ makes the only budget o/u that won't cost more in the long run. If this is just going to be a field gun and not shoot thousands and thousands of clays a year, that's the way to go.

If you spend some time on Gunbroker, you can find an older Citori, Win 101, and even an SKB in the $750 - $900 range. It's a question of fit. Both the older Win 101 and the pre 725 Citori are by no means a universal fit. For bigger folks the Citoris seem to be fine, though I do not like them at all. The 101 has weird ergonomics. For smaller folks, the Italian guns seem to be a better fit. The CZ/Huglu guns seem to be a good in between. The Uplander is a good budget field gun. Guns made to the sub $700 price point will fail.

Here's a good example of a used older Citori, as an example, albeit 20ga:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/620643526

And, free of charge, here's the buy of the day (nothing to do with me btw):

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/621124113

Fixed chokes Full/Mod. Mike Orlen can open those to IM/IC (what I would do) or, if there's enough barrel material, fit them for choke tubes ($50 per barrel to open, $55/barrel to fit for tubes). Solid Brescia action, decent Italian maker. Nice looking gun.

Either of these guns is far superior than the Yildiz or the CZ. I have both the CZ and Yildiz, OK very pretty, stiff as a preachers...disposition! But they do not compare to either the Browning or the Franchi in any way. THe Browning and the Franchi are made to shoot tens of thousands of rounds and pass on to multiple generations wiht plenty of life left. I love the way the Yildiz shoots but all you have to do is shoot one then shoot the Browning and you will come up with the extra money for the Browning, same for the Franchi.

 

[f451]

I have had great success with lightly-used SKB shotguns or the SKBs marketed by Ithaca, both in SxS and O/U. Seems to me they have usually run at prices within your budget, perhaps $500 to $600. I find that usually I'm very happy with good used examples of guns that, if new, would be above the budget.

I have a SKB Ducks unlimited that I shoot at the local club. It cost me around $300.00, I traded for it, and I hold my on with the $2000.00 to $30,000.00 guns my friends shoot. It really feels good and is the XL600 gas gun, gotta love a good gas gun!

 

[f451]

i don,t see many stoeger,s, CZ,s, yildiz,s or tristar,s at the trap-skeet or sporting clays clubs i shoot at. if you are a regular at the clay sports games the ammo will cost you more than a good shotgun over time. my BT-100 browning is my singles trap shotgun and i have well over 20,000 rounds thru it with out a bobble, and i could sell it any time i want by putting it on the clubs bulletin board for more than i paid for it. cry when you buy and laugh when it lasts. eastbank. case in point 20,000=800 boxesx4.00-4.50=about 3200.00

That is what I was trying to explain earlier. The quality of the Browning, even a old one, will be far superior than any of the CZ, Yildez or Stoeger, and they will not take the round count that you put that BT-100 through in a year. I personally woulf love to have a 425, 525, or 725 unsingle. Just have to sell something to get that!

 

[eastbank]

f451, i have been shooting a browning XS 20 ga o/u with adjustable comb a lot lately. i have not got to 25-25 at trap or skeet, but 22-23,s-25. eastbank.

 

[MSgtEgress]

I'd stay away from ATI in 12 or 20ga the hinges are poorly designed and weak and Ive seen firing pin problems in these and Tri-Star Setters

 

[Bushpilot]

As others have said, inexpensive O/Us are traditionally known to be more trouble then they are worth. Usually the common wisdom goes like this; if you can't go to a certain price point you're better off sticking with a single barrel. I went along with this line of thinking for a long time and for trap, skeet or sporting clays where you are shooting several boxes of shells every week I still do. I think for hunting guns these days some things have improved a little though. Oh, don't get me wrong, you can still buy a lousy O/U that is far more trouble then its worth or that swings like a water logged fence post. But, if you look a little I think there are a few new O/Us that are in or close to your price range that are good field guns. The already mentioned CZs/Huglu, Yildiz and ATI Cavalry/Kofs would be at the top of my list. I personally would stay away from the Stoeger. I have a 20ga ATI that I like very much and so far I've had no trouble. I would also consider finding a nice used O/U. I have picked up nice used Beretta's, Charles Dalys and SKBs for less then your budget, some far less. Good Luck

 

[CoalTrain49]

Knowing what I know about <1K new O/U's and SxS's I wouldn't buy a new one. I would be looking for a used SKB, Beretta or Browning myself. A few years ago I found an old Beretta BL-3 on an auction site for 6 and change. 10 times the quality of any new 1K gun. I've had a few Win 101's, still have one I bought new in 70. They have a habit of shooting the top ribs loose. They also have chrome lined bores which is difficult to ream out if you want less choke. I think SKB's also had chrome lined bores. A good smith will charge more if they will even do it.

I used to do a lot of upland. SxS is the ticket for upland but an O/U will double as good clays and upland gun. I ended up with an old 6.5 lb sxs British gun with open chokes for upland. Much lighter to carry all day for those 10 shots you might take. Heavy guns (7.5 lbs and up) are for waterfowl and trap ranges.

Many upland hunters still use older 2.5" guns and 1 oz of shot (or less) because they are light and don't require the robust design of a clays gun. If you hunt over a dog you just don't need all that firepower.

You didn't say what birds you were going to hunt. Wild pheasant would be an exception to what I just said. Hard to bring down, like a B-17, you need more of everything. I used an 870 on those suckers.

 

[AJumbo]

My brother just bought two O/Us, a Franchi 12ga and a Stoeger 20ga for his daughter. The Franchi ran about $740, the Stoeger around $350. We'll be shooting sporting clays in a couple weeks, so I'll get to report on the shakedown cruise. I'll be chugging along with my 1100, 870, and maybe my Huglu stackbarrel.

 

[eastbank]

if you can master a pump, a used 12ga 870 TB grade remington will get the job done. rudy etchen shot 100 straight trap doubles with one and 32 years he later did it again with the same 870 eastbank.

 

[jcord]

I recently bought my first over/under. A FN browning superposed. Fixed choke IM/Full with 30 inch barrels.
I took it to the range and patterned it at 40 yards and the shot patterns from both barrels overlay one another perfectly. I can't wait for the turkey shoots this fall.

 

[cdb1]

A 16 gauge Superposed is on my bucket list.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have to agree with everyone about spending a little more and getting a better O/U especially if you plan on doing any amount of skeet/trap shooting with it.

That being said, I bought a Turkish made Gazelle O/U in .410 about 10 years ago and love it. It shoots great and fits me. I don't shoot a lot of skeet with it. I use it for recreational skeet now and then and for dove and quail hunting. If I was going to shoot a lot then I would have gotten something better. Back then the Gazelle cost $500 and was better than any of the Russian or South American O/U shotguns that were available.

 

[expat_alaska]

you're better off sticking with a single barrel. I went along with this line of thinking for a long time and for skeet

I pulled/set trap/skeet at Roberts' Shooting Park/Elkhorn NE (long time gone) in the late 60's as a teen for $1.50/hr, and also shot a lot of skeet rounds with a Rem 870 12 Gauge IC choke.

Just curious: How did you shoot doubles at stations 1, 2, 6, and 7 with a single barrel break-open shotgun?

You must have been quite the fastest shotgun reloader in the world!

Sorry, I just had to comment and please don't take it as a cut, sir! I guess I am just a s**t disturber.

if you can master a pump, a used 12ga 870 TB grade remington will get the job done. rudy etchen shot 100 straight trap doubles with one and 32 years he later did it again with the same 870 eastbank.

Eastbank, I agree if one has access to a shorter extra barrel for skeet. I never did well at trap with a new Rem 1100 12 gauge mod choke, wanted to shoot skeet, so I talked my Dad into buying me (remember the GCA '68) the used 870 as a straight trade from a long ago gun shop on 60th St. in Omaha. I immediately liked it because the drop at the heel was only 2-1/4", had just about the Identical recoil pad as the TB, and it allowed me to see the entire top of the receiver and vent rib, much like the view from a Rem 870 TB as you referred to, which allowed the shooter to see the whole clay slightly above the muzzle, and I was taught to wingshoot with both eyes open.The Rem 870 TC had better wood, a "Monte Carlo" style comb, was more expensive, and still followed the idea that trap shooters wanted to see the clay above the barrel whether singles and especially doubles when the clay was dropping in flight. Most field grade 870's at the time (and working at a range gave me many opportunities to handle many guns from local shooters who liked to show off their guns) had drops at the heel at around 2-3/4", which did not allow for that, and with that great drop one had to have a good cheek weld to the stock; if you did not and wanted to look at the top of the barrel, your face got smacked when you pulled the trigger.

My Dad once owned a Fox Sterlingworth 20 gauge SXS mod/full with double triggers in the 60's. I shot it for one round of skeet back then and I vowed never to do it again as it had a very large drop at the heel, no recoil pad, and I was always lifting my head up to see the top of the barrel, and the gun only weighed 5 lbs. Must have been nice to carry in the field, but how many shots are done in the field unless a huge covey of quail stays within shooting range?

My Dad was a big fan of the Ruger Red Label 12 gauge but I have no experience with it.

I am sorry that I digress and carry on. I'm just an old fart reminiscing.

You folks all have a good night!

Jim

 

[kudu]

I agree if one has access to a shorter extra barrel for skeet.

As the trend is for longer barrels for skeet and sporting anymore, very few people seen with less than a 28" barrel on autos and pumps, and not very many shorter than 30" on O/U's. There are still a few that break out a short skeet gun. And I think Bushpilot meant a single barrel on an auto or pump, nothing said about a break open.