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Buffalo Bore on Charter Bulldogs

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Panzerschwein, Mar 23, 2015.

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  1. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Never seen that load. The theory sounds valid though. I still believe the Speer Gold Dot factory load is quite sufficient for most purposes. The Charter just isn't going to withstand high performance ammo for very long. It was never intended to.
     
  2. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Right, but from what I understand it's not that hot of load, but gives more velocity than Speer and Blazer. Made specifically for the 'dawg.
     
  3. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Long live the dawg!
     
  4. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Ordered 1500 bullets from Matt's. Thanks! :D
     
  5. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    Here you go

    35W
     
  6. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Well guys, looks like it's back to the drawing board.

    I'm going to hold out for some of those Underwood Bull Dog loads.
     
  7. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    [email protected] Member

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    I use the all copper from Buffalo Bore in mine . Works great. Been shooting
    my Bulldog since 1974.
     
  8. golden

    golden Member

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    Blazer or silvertip

    DRAIL,

    I would go with the BLAZER or SILVERTIP. When I bought my first BULLDOG, I tried some warm 240 grain semi-wadcutters and the experience was NEVER TO BE REPEATED!

    The BULLDOG will do all you want from it with the lighter weight hollow points. The BUFFALO BORE loads will act like the +P .38 Special loads did on the j-frame and k-frame S&W revolvers. It will just shake them out of time way before it should.

    Jim
     
  9. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    Welcome!

    FWIW, I am pretty sure that it was 35 Whelen who first pointed me to these great bullets several months ago.

    Thanks again, 35W! ;)
     
  10. Sarge7402

    Sarge7402 Member

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  11. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Because I don't want to use a hard cast wadcutter for defense.

    Too much penetration, I'd also want some expansion for increased tissue destruction.

    Oh, and I'd also want to avoid the term "anti-personnel" being used against me in court if, God forbid, I have to use the ammo "for real".
     
  12. golden

    golden Member

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    Recoil not +p

    Sarge,

    Remember, that higher velocity ammo that is standard pressure will still have more recoil energy than lower velocity ammo. It is just NEWTON'S law: for every action, their is an equal and opposite reaction, namely recoil.

    BUFFALO BORE ammo has a justified reputation for recoil, which is why they advised against using it in such a light gun.

    Jim
     
  13. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Are you sure about this?
     
  14. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    The recoil sensation is different with light projectiles at high velocity than with heavy projects at low velocities, even if the recoil energy is the same. This is due to high recoil velocity produced by the lighter, faster bullet.

    A perfect example: My wife and her girlfriends didn't like the snappy recoil of my midsized 9mm but were just fine with the heavier, "slow" rolling recoil of my Colt Gov't Model 45 ACP firing ball ammo.

    35W
     
  15. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    buffalo bore makes some good ammo, but I don't see its advantage out of a charter arms bulldog. I mean who is really getting the bad end of the stick when it is fired? LOL
     
  16. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    because its $2 per round. in a compact 44 special you start getting diminished returns when you push a 200gr. pill past 900 fps or a 240gr. up to 850 fps. after that you really loose shootability regarding accurate AND fast follow ups. ive notice that on youtube, the narcissist's dream outlet, there is an absence of rapid and accurate charter arms bulldog 44 special shooting. the gun is light and makes for easy carry but becomes brutal when you try to magnumize it.
     
  17. golden

    golden Member

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    Test it yourself

    COLDDILL,

    If you think I am wrong, try shooting some ammo of the same weight at different velocities.

    The .38 Special 158 grain round nose or semi wadcutter standard pressure from one of the big 3 ammo companies and then some of BUFFALO BORE ammo using the same weight bullet at standard pressure and higher velocity and see if you can tell the difference.

    You can try the same thing with BLAZER 200 grain ammo and BUFFALO BORE 200 grain ammo. The difference in velocity will be at least 100 fps and the recoil will be noticeable.

    I bet you can notice the difference very easily.

    Jim
     
  18. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    I don't think that's the reason why Buffalo Bore originally didn't recommend their .44 special loads (other than the 200 gr. wadcutter) for the Charter Bulldog. In my correspondences with them, quoted in the OP, you can see that the folks at Buffalo Bore were concerned with the strength of the older Bulldogs. They replied to me saying that they feel the newer ones are better built, and that limited use of these loads shouldn't cause issues.

    I don't think it has anything to do with them thinking the ammo would recoil more. That's a given, I already know that and I'm sure they do too. IMHO I am willing to accept somewhat more recoil if that means I'm getting a more effective round on target, i.e. a hollow point that will actually expand, which I just don't think will happen with a Blazer 200 gr. Gold Dot from my 2.5" Bulldog. The velocity is just not there in the chrono tests I've uncovered in my research. People are averaging well under the 800 FPS that Speer says their 200 grain .44 special Gold Dot will open up with, when firing said load from the new shorter barreled Charter Bulldogs. They no longer make ones with 3" barrels.

    Not only that, but I have yet to find ANY ballistics gelatin tests for either Blazer or Speer 200 grain .44 special Gold Dots from this kind of gun. I've gotten a ton of recommendations for this gun/load combo, but with 0 evidence to back it up showing that the round will actually perform from this platform. Like many things, it appears this load is popular and oft recommended for Charter Bulldogs for one reason only: it's popular. On the internet.

    I'm just trying to find a good load that I know will work as advertised, criteria include nothing more than it being of a hollow point design as that's what I feel is the best self defense bullet for my needs of protection against human attackers. No wadcutters, semi-wadcutters, or snake shot for me, I'm looking for the best and most appropriate factory loaded .44 special hollow point that works the best from my 2.5" Bulldog.
     
  19. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    [email protected] Member

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    The Barnes bullet from Buffalo Bore will do it. It's all I use. I can shoot it fine
    and I'm 72 You all forget that the Bulldog used to chamber 44 mag. And lots
    Of 44 mag has been shot out of older Bulldogs without blowing up any.. I have
    stories to tell about the old Bulldogs, but not on here.
     
  20. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    I don't think that's correct. The bulldog was chambered in .357 magnum and .44 special, but the cylinder is too short for a .44 magnum, and the cylinder walls are pretty thin in .44 special.
    I had an older .44 bulldog, and it went from a little loose to much looser within 200 rounds of medium to warm .44 special. I'd guess the number of .44 magnum level loads it would take to do the same thing would number in the single digits, if it even stayed together.
    Did charter arms make a specific .44 mag model, long discontinued? I couldn't find one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  21. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Check your facts my friend. I've never seen nor even heard of a Charter Arms ANYTHING in .44 magnum.
     
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  22. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

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    I know my facts, it's you all who don't. I knew the CEO of Charter Doug M.
    and we talked quite a bit back in the 70's. The Bulldog would chamber 44 mag,
    not that it was chambered for the 44mag. There probably will be others around
    that will tell you the same thing. Doug tried to blow up a Bulldog to see just
    what it would take. Never did.. I go on record to say that nobody should shoot
    any 44mag loads from a Charter even tho the very early models would chamber
    them. This is all I am going to say on the subject.
     
  23. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein member

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    Huh. So there might be some Bulldogs out there that were bored for a .44 magnum, or had elongated cylinder/frames to fit the cartridge?

    Interesting. I'll take your word for it my friend.
     
  24. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

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    Now your getting it. There will be others who probably will post this also if they
    read this. One day all us old timers who know stuff like this will be gone..
     
  25. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    Here's a really good article on handloading for the .44 Bulldog that includes lots of info on factory loads.

    I'd have to see some real documentation, not an internet post, before I believe the .44 Bulldog was ever chambered in .44 Magnum, at least so chambered and made available to the public. The picture in Post #12 shows my '70's vintage Bulldog and I assure you it will not accept a .44 Magnum case or loaded cartridge.

    Facts and posts on an internet forum are entirely different from one another.


    Interestingly, Brian Pearce, in Handloader #236 states:

    The second category (22,000 psi) includes the Colt Single Action Army, New Frontier SAA, Charter Arms Bull Dog and United States Fire-Arms SAA-pattern revolvers that are U.S. manufactured.

    This shouldn't come as too much of a surprise because a quick glance at a Bulldog's cylinder will show that, unlike Colts and Rugers, the bolt notches in the cylinder do not lie directly over the chambers and therefore do not weaken the cylinder walls.

    35W
     
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