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Bulk 22LR - Sorting by Weight and Rim Thickness for Accuracy

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by LiveLife, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    As expressed in another thread, I have wanted to try sorting bulk 22LR by weight and rim thickness to see if accuracy improved - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/best-and-worst-bulk-22lr.848296/page-4#post-11110474

    I like to verify accuracy of scale I am using at similar weight range so I used check weights to 50 gr and all three digital scales were verified to 50.0 gr using Ohaus ASTM Class 6 and RCBS check weights.

    &temp_hash=721d7245c930331f7819b78a51d31064.jpg
    &temp_hash=721d7245c930331f7819b78a51d31064.jpg

    Frankford Arsenal dial calipers verified with pin gauges and rim thickness was measured using a cut and chamfered .223 case - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ks-for-digital-calibers.821135/#post-10545265

    &temp_hash=721d7245c930331f7819b78a51d31064.jpg

    Federal 36 gr CP HP (Walmart 550 round red box) were sorted by 0.1 gr. (Bell curve formed around 49.4 gr and 49.5 gr)

    &temp_hash=721d7245c930331f7819b78a51d31064.jpg

    And there were some lighter rounds below 48 gr.

    &temp_hash=721d7245c930331f7819b78a51d31064.jpg

    Then 49.5 gr rounds were sorted by rim thickness (1.780", 1.781", 1.782")

    &temp_hash=721d7245c930331f7819b78a51d31064.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Ruger 10/22 Take Down was used with Caldwell rest taken apart and front rest flipped around so no part of forearm was touching the front rest. 10 round groups were shot at 25 yards using Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 scope.

    Here's first reference group shot with CCI Blazer 40 gr Lead RN.

    [​IMG]

    Second reference group shot with Aguila 40 gr Lead RN

    [​IMG]

    Third reference group shot with Aguila 40 gr CP RN HV (Eley Prime)

    [​IMG]

    Fourth reference group shot with Aguila 40 gr CP RN HV (Aguila Prime)

    [​IMG]

    Here's group shot with Federal 36 gr CP HP (Walmart 550 round red box)

    [​IMG]

    Another group shot with Federal 36 gr CP HP (Walmart 550 round red box)

    [​IMG]
     

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  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Here's group shot with Federal 36 gr CP HP sorted to 49.4 gr weight. There is less vertical stringing.

    [​IMG]

    Another group shot with sorted 49.4 gr rounds. Core group size is smaller.

    [​IMG]

    This group was shot with 49.5 gr rounds sorted by thicker rim (1.782"). Smaller width of group with less vertical stringing.

    [​IMG]

    This group was shot with 49.5 gr rounds sorted by thinner rim (1.780"). Even smaller width group with less vertical stringing.

    [​IMG]

    This group was shot with 49.5 gr rounds sorted by medium thickness rim (1.781"). Much less vertical stringing.

    [​IMG]
     

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  4. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Out of curiosity, I wanted to see how the leftover rounds shot after I took out 49.4 gr and 49.5 gr rounds (These were not sorted by rim thickness and had mixed weights from 49.1 gr to 49.8 gr minus 49.4/49.5 gr rounds).

    To my surprise, I got a smaller group than unsorted rounds out of the box.

    [​IMG]

    Since I had a box of Winchester M22 40 gr plated RN, I shot some groups as comparison.

    Here's first M22 group

    [​IMG]

    Second M22 group

    [​IMG]

    Third M22 group

    [​IMG]

    I may try sorting Winchester M22 next to see if I can get a smaller group.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  5. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I had a similar experience with .45 SWCs and a Ransom Rest. Random bullets right out of the box shot a closer group than weight sorted.

    I also see that you could save the sorting by just shooting Blazer.
     
  6. murf

    murf Member

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    fwiw:

    1552785908954.jpg 1552840515361.jpg

    44 mag rim thickness.

    murf
     
  7. murf

    murf Member

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    fwiw:
    1221151446a~2.jpg 1221151448~2.jpg 1221152359_Burst01.jpg

    quasi-headspace measurement. much more important regarding accuracy, imo.

    murf
     
  8. murf

    murf Member

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    more base-to-datum pics:

    1221152139.jpg 1221152234a.jpg 1221152250a~2.jpg

    murf
     
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  9. murf

    murf Member

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    and more:

    1221152304b.jpg 1221152318~2.jpg 1221152332a~2.jpg

    haven't shot them for accuracy difference yet. should make that a project, I guess. anyway, thought my thought might help your quest.

    luck,

    murf
     
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  10. murf

    murf Member

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    any questions, feel free to ask.

    murf
     
  11. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thanks for the data.

    To be honest, while range test data provided some support sorting by weight and rim thickness can produce smaller groups, it also raised some questions.

    I am planning to do more sorting and range testing along with different bulk 22LR to see if there is a common trend.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  12. murf

    murf Member

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    I don't think there is enough variation in your rim thickness test to be significant regarding accuracy.

    there are so many variables in the weight test, i'm not sure any conclusions can be drawn here. I'm drawing on the fact I have never seen a "test" on center-fire total cartridge weight, ymmv.

    again, i'll help in any way with this project.

    luck,

    murf
     
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  13. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I am not trying to extract utmost "bullseye/match" level accuracy. My goal with this thread is to see if I could increase accuracy of cheapest bulk 22LR from sorting by weight/rim thickness which has been Federal 36 gr CP HP Walmart 550 round red box for around $19 which comes down to around $17.50 for 500 rounds.

    BTW, Cabela's has Armscor 36 gr CP HP (1247 fps) for $14.88/500 with 2-day free shipping on $50+ orders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...30-for-500-rounds.825048/page-7#post-11113623

    Just about the lowest price on copper plated 22LR I have seen in recent years.

    I think more sorting and range testing will show if accuracy increase is consistent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  14. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Yes, in my 10/22.

    But most of my 22LR plinking/shooting drills is done with ARs with CMMG 22LR conversion bolts and I do not shoot lead 22LR in them, only copper plated 22LR.

    And since much of my plinking/shooting drills are done at closer than 25 yards point shooting, minute-of-soda can accuracy is good enough for me when my desired group size is 4"-6". I have been using Glock 22/23 with 9mm conversion barrels to introduce people to point shooting and added GSG 1911 22LR as another training option. BTW, if you haven't tried, point shooting, especially with ARs is quite fun and another drill you can do at the range - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...defense-situation-video.849479/#post-11091007

    I may repeat the range test with ARs/CMMG conversion bolt.

    And Target Sport USA has CCI Blazer 38 gr Lead RN (1235 fps) for $17.99/525 ($17.13/500) with free shipping on 10 boxes - https://www.targetsportsusa.com/cci-blazer-22-lr-ammo-40-grain-lrn-bulk-10021-p-1453.aspx

    I may pick up some more CCI Blazer for 10/22.
     
  15. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Shucks, I feel like someone over at accurateshooter.com did a pretty comprehensive test along these lines (with not-very-compelling results, IIRC). I can't find it now, though. Maybe I just imagined it. But before you go too far down this path, you may want to see if you'd just be replicating some prior work.
     
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  16. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    It's those testing threads is what got me interested in sorting bulk 22LR.

    Although they were looking to achieve "match ammo" level of accuracy, I am simply interested in seeing if accuracy improves with sorting cheapest bulk 22LR.

    I am getting ready to retire and sorting 22LR by weight and rim thickness, I can do.
     
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  17. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Excellent! I am always in the mood for another bds data thread.
     
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  18. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I am just glad we can buy "cheap" 22LR again.

    During the "Great Shortage", I was happy to buy "any" 500 rounds for $40.

    When price dipped below $30 for 500 delivered for copper plated 22LR, I started a new 22LR thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...or-sale-under-30-for-500-rounds.825048/page-7

    I celebrated when price fell below $20 for 500 and stocked up.

    Now we are below $15 for 500 shipped for copper plated 22LR! :eek:
     
  19. murf

    murf Member

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    understand your stand. just giving my observations and opinion. the offer still stands on the help.

    luck,

    murf
     
  20. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    murf, were you able to determine if weight overshadowed rim thickness?

    My initial testing was inconclusive.

    One thing is certain - Sorting can decrease group size.
     
  21. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    BDS - that is an incredible amount of work and VERY interesting ! Thanks for your efforts.
    Your results with the Federal 550 rd. "red box" are about what I expected. With the bullets flopping around in the box, it isn't surprising that there might be damage to the bullets that affect their aerodynamics. I am going to assume that the other rounds fired in your testing were in 50-100 boxes where the bullets would not have bumped into each other. The results with the Blazer 40 gr. LRN was (to me) surprisingly good. And the "Aguila 40 gr CP RN HV" - does the HV stand for "high velocity", and, if so, how was its velocity different than the others?
    BTW - you say a 3-9x scope but don't mention the power setting you used.
     
  22. murf

    murf Member

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    I did not weigh the rounds; too many variables to be of any significance, imo.

    murf
     
  23. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thank you

    While I only posted 2 groups, I did shoot several other Federal 550 round groups before, during and after the range testing and group sizes were fairly consistent.

    Velocity ratings are factory specs:

    • Aguila 40 gr Lead RN Standard Velocity 1130 fps
    • Aguila 40 gr CP RN High Velocity 1255 fps
    • CCI Blazer 40 gr Lead RN 1235 fps
    • Federal 36 gr CP HP 1260 fps
    • Winchester M22 40 gr CP RN 1255 fps

    Power setting used on the scope was 9x.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  24. murf

    murf Member

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    I might start a new project and pull apart cheap bulk ammo and weigh the contents. should find the major variable regarding cartridge weight.

    murf
     
  25. Dinosaur1

    Dinosaur1 Member

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    As luck would have it, I was just playing with this same thing yesterday ( new .22 ) with similar results. My dime sized groups were all with CCI Standard Velocity. One group with Winchester 100 round red box all went in the same hole. Couldn't duplicate it tho. Didn't shoot any Aguila but various weights and speeds of several other brands. The faster the speed the more my groups opened so I'm staying with the standard velocity tho I would have perfered something with a little more zip. But thanks for posting b. Interesting stuff.
     
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