Bulk Once Fired Brass

[joneb]

I sort by head stamp.

Starline 223 Brass - Case Capacity Warning

Today we have a look at case capacity in the new Starline .223 Remington brass.UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with YouTube conten...

www.youtube.com

 

[41 Mag]

So, some years back I was helping a friend with feral hogsbon his property. My main preference was a little short Ruger Compact in. 308 which was light and handy for quick shots up in thick cover and also did well out to some distance in the open. My ammobwas usually factory Rem 150gr CL'S. It was very seldom I managed to find the cases in the long grass or underbrush.

I purchases a couple of MFRB's of once fired mil/surp and went to work on it. Yes most was fired through full auto or even any number of belt fed rotary weapons. It took quite a bit of sorting, sizing, and trimming, to get it to reliably feed in my rifle. There were a couple of different staps so it was all separated by brand but not year.

After that experience and even well before with all range pick up, I sorted by headstamp. Just found that the accuracy loads in a couple of rifles preferred certain brands. Then came my bottom feeder pistols, which up until the late 80s I had been shooting only revolvers. First it was the 10mm, which was mostly always new brass loaded because you just didn't find much if any once fired. Then came the 45acp which again I purchased a couple of boxes of and went to town. Quickly found target quality loads came from sorted headstamps. Then the 9mm's came to the stable. In a few months I managed to run 9K rounds through them shooting mainly target loaded cast, but with Berry, RMR and other brands if plated mixed in. I also found that there were a few brands that were not desirable and some had internal shoulders and such.

So yes, I still sort by headstamp, I trim my revolver cases if needed to .005 shorter than the max trim length or whatever the shortest case measured out of a handful is in a particular batch. Rifle cases same deal as the revolvers. I do have batches of new that I have used either from Starline, Win, Rem, or whoever had what I needed. I usually load it till it quits or splits and move on, kinda similar to my handgun cases. Work through a batch of say 500, and use em till I loose em.

 

[emb]

I will always sort rifle brass by headstamp. Pistol, I'm going to try not. I have so much mixed 45 ACP brass that I want to use before using my new brass. If I'm shooting a static line, I can pick up my brass, but that's not really what I do. Most of my pistol brass ends up in the dirt on some USPSA or IDPA stage. Bullseye accuracy is not critical in these games, and I don't see any reason to use the good stuff only to leave it lying in the dirt. I loaded 300 mixed brass 45 ACP and am heading out to see if it makes a difference I care about.

 

[CptnAwesome]

I curious as to what you mean by “terrible”? But then you load your mags by HS and the groups were much better? If it were me, I’d be all over myself for better control.
I load a lot of range brass since it’s near impossible to pick up brass after running a stage. Regardless of the genealogy my reloads still tend to be around 1” at 10 yards and 2” at 20. That perhaps isn’t good enough for your shooting but most bullseye shooters don’t use range brass.

By terrible, I mean paper plate size groups at 7 yards sitting free hand. I and my pistol are capable of much better.

Sorted by headstand I was around baseball size groups at same distance.

Not trying to shoot precision at all.

 

[CptnAwesome]

What I have noted with my handguns is that load charge weight work ups were the same regardless of the brand of brass, i.e. best groups were the same charge weight no matter what brand of brass, but POI vs the POA differed depending on brand of brass. So if I am doing serious target work I sort by headstamp.

And I'm thinking that's what got me. POI was changing with different headstamps.

 

[CptnAwesome]

If you ever see me selling once fired here on THR or elsewhere, don't believe me.

But seriously folks, for both 45acp & 9mm, within whatever headstamp I plan to shoot, I sort by length also because I know for certain the shorter a case is the more it's been shot.

You're not the first to mention sorting by length, so there must be something to it.

That's something I will do also.

This is all new to me. I'm only used to using same lot of factory new brass at a time.

 

[Pat Riot]

I purchases a couple of MFRB's of once fired mil/surp and went to work on it.

Maybe my coffee hasn’t kicked it yet, but what does “MFRB” mean?

 

[lordpaxman]

Paper plate groups at 7 yards isn’t great.

Sorted by headstand I was around baseball size groups at same distance.

Curiosity gets the better of me. Are you saying you reloaded mixed HS, then sorted and shot? Or, sorted, reloaded and then shot? When I’m developing a load I’ll used sorted HS just to try to reduce a variable but then will load a production run and select different HS to chrono and group to see if that’s different in any way. Many times the mixed HS will actually be slightly better. I’m not CDO to try to develop a load per HS, and these are competition loads.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Maybe my coffee hasn’t kicked it yet, but what does “MFRB” mean?

Thanks for asking

 

[CptnAwesome]

Paper plate groups at 7 yards isn’t great.

Curiosity gets the better of me. Are you saying you reloaded mixed HS, then sorted and shot? Or, sorted, reloaded and then shot? When I’m developing a load I’ll used sorted HS just to try to reduce a variable but then will load a production run and select different HS to chrono and group to see if that’s different in any way. Many times the mixed HS will actually be slightly better. I’m not CDO to try to develop a load per HS, and these are competition loads.

Okay I'll clarify,

I had same load in all different headstamps.

I took somewhere around 200 rounds to the range.

After 3 or 4 magazines I didn't like the accuracy.

After thinking for a few I then sorted what I had left by headstamp and only fired magazines of a single headstamp at a time after.

 

[CQB45ACP]

You're not the first to mention sorting by length, so there must be something to it.

That's something I will do also.

This is all new to me. I'm only used to using same lot of factory new brass at a time.

I do it, have done it for some time, and will continue, but not to directly make shooting more precise. If it does, great but, I'm after more consistent sizing, expanding, and seating. For example, some brass either due to brand or age (number of firings) gives different perceived bullet tension making more consistent may improve precision but again not my goal per se.

Just wanted to help manage expectations.

 

[41 Mag]

Maybe my coffee hasn’t kicked it yet, but what does “MFRB” mean?

Well it was bout 3/4's thru my first cup and just before the 3hr drive up to tha country place. Sorry I was in a hurry to finish up and get on tha road.

MFRB = usps Medium Flat Rate Box about 6" x 8" x 11", holds around 400'ish 308 cases, and about 1000 to 1100, 9mm cases

 

[Charlie98]

Just wanted to help manage expectations.

I have a saying I use... that is 'an expectation of accuracy.' It stems from my early years loading 5.56mm for my Colt H-Bar, using crap Norinco brass and cheapo generic 55grn FMJ bullets... and expecting match-grade accuracy. To say I was frustrated with my first handloads would be an understatement, it wasn't until years later, after honestly analyzing what I was doing, where I realized my 'expectations of accuracy' were rather overreaching. Put in more common terms... garbage in, garbage out.

As far as the OP, using mix-master brass and expecting consistency... in handgun or rifle... is usually a bit much. It's one of the reasons I segregate all my brass, even 9mm. In 9mm, all I have are service pistols (a bunch of Kahrs, and an SA-35,) my 'expectations of accuracy' are quite low... I expect 'combat accuracy.' Even then, segregating my brass, keeping the 5 or 6 headstamps I use and discarding the rest, gives me more consistent, and probably more importantly... more reliable... handloads. If I am spending the time to assemble some ammunition, I want to take at least the basic steps to insure I'm getting the most bang for my buck...

Rifle ammunition is a bit of a different story. Because I have had issues with 'once-fired' brass, I don't take many chances with all that pressure near my face and head... In autoloading cartridges, and particularly .308/7.62mm, I use MY brass, that I have processed, that I know the history of. Having the magazine of your M1a blow out in your lap a few times will do that.

 

[Pat Riot]

MFRB = usps Medium Flat Rate Box about 6" x 8" x 11", holds around 400'ish 308 cases, and about 1000 to 1100, 9mm cases

Thank you.
That one was baffling.
That is definitely not what I imagined.

 

[Zendude]

I don’t sort 9mm by headstamp, but I don’t shoot in any type of competition either. Precise accuracy is not my goal with 9mm reloads. I have found that for loading mixed headstamps, the Lee Undersize sizing die works better than the standard Lee sizing die for getting more consistent neck tension. A better brand sizing die might be a good investment but the more experienced reloaders here can offer better advice than me.

 

[zeke]

I don’t sort 9mm by headstamp, but I don’t shoot in any type of competition either. Precise accuracy is not my goal with 9mm reloads. I have found that for loading mixed headstamps, the Lee Undersize sizing die works better than the standard Lee sizing die for getting more consistent neck tension. A better brand sizing die might be a good investment but the more experienced reloaders here can offer better advice than me.

Am neck sizing all my 380, 9mm, .40 win and 45 acp cases with a Lee U die, while minimizing the case mouth expansion. Am firm believer in adequate case neck tension while recognizing there are limits. For some reason, aside from the roll crimp, have not found it necessary with revolver rounds.

 

[DanK3Pos]

Like @GeoDudeFlorida I enjoy case prep.


View attachment 1258644

And Folgers, apparently.

You bring up a good point. It is much smoother on the progressive if you sort by head stamp.

 

[Riomouse911]

I haven’t gone the headstamp ID-measure-sort route on mixed headstamp handgun brass yet, as my time to reload isn’t unlimited and my process is slow enough as it is.

But if I was to start looking for razors edge accuracy, then I would sort to reduce the amount of variance a bit more.

Rifle ammo I don’t load in large quantities, so those will get sorted.

Stay safe.

 

[Blue68f100]

Those sorting by length, the longer ones will be the best. Ideally you want about 0.003" space between the brass and end of chamber. With longer brass you get a quicker chamber seal producing smaller es & sd. Shorter the brass a little longer it takes to seal. Now with all being the same they should all be close if internal volume is equal.

 

[emb]

I just shot 30 rounds of 45ACP mixed brass at 20 yards. I noticed no difference in accuracy between mixed brass and sorted brass. I did nothing special with the brass except to clean it.

 

[Pat Riot]

What I found most interesting in the last 2000 piece 9mm “once fired” brass order that I received was that CCI “Blazer” head stamped brass made up at least 70% of the brass I received.

 

[Muddydogs]

I sort out a 1000 or so cases of pistol brass for defense type loads, I'll pick a head stamp to sort or in the case of .40 brass I sorted out the nickel then sorted by head stamp. The other 20,000 pieces of .40 brass are in a big ammo can that I reload range rounds out of.

Only brass I worry about is defensive pistol brass and hunting rifle brass which both get all the case prep treatments, weighted powder charges and bullets seated with the single stage press. Anything else is mixed brass loaded on the progressive press. From .380 to 375 H&H I can't tell the difference in brass. With 60,000 pieces of purchased mixed once fired and range scrounged brass I have no inclination to sort it all.

Yes I have a brass problem but I'm working on it. Went to the range Friday and I didn't pick up a single piece, not even the 308 once fired the M1 was throwing at me. I'm also working on my shotgun hull addiction. My lead addiction is still running rapid though.

 

[Smokin Gator]

If you're getting paper plate sized groups with mixed brass then baseball sized groups with headstand sorted brass sitting at 7 yards, you should have baseball sized groups with each headstand at different spots within the paper plate.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

I'm not as experienced as most of the reloaders on this forum but I have noticed a difference in accuracy between bulk mixed brass and same headstamp brass in 9mm and 5.56. I haven't however noticed a difference in .45 acp mixed brass vs. Same headstamp. I wonder if the higher load density in smaller cases makes more of a difference vs. Lower load density in larger cases. I'm sure the quality of the bullets make a difference also.

 

[westernrover]

I would never buy mixed headstamp. For most rifles, I would only ever buy new brass. 223 is the only size for which I've bought fired brass. I did and would only ever consider buying a single headstamp. It is possible to ensure you are getting once-fired. I bought single headstamp brass sourced from a LE range. They don't shoot reloads. Sourcing from an agency range can provide a consistent source of large quantities of brass because they buy it in large lots. Not many individuals shoot thousands of rounds of the same brass in a short period of time. Even if brass from a public range is sorted by headstamp, it can be coming from many lots originating over a wide span of time. A rental range that requires their own ammo be used in the rental guns can also be a consistent source, but they are more likely to use cheap ammo. It's not unusual for LE agencies to have a policy of training and practicing with what they issue for patrol, which is usually better than the cheapest thing possible.

I don't buy fired handgun brass. I only buy new brass. If I were to shoot 9x19 and reload it (I don't do either), I would probably shoot one brand of factory ammo and reload those cases. That's also what I do for 223. Because I wanted more cases on-hand sooner than I was willing to fire them, I also bought fired 223 cases. If I were to do the same for 9x19 or another handgun cartridge, I would try to source the quantity I wanted, probably several thousand, from somewhere that could get me the full quantity in a single headstamp purchased and fired by an institutional consumer.

One potential source for a large quantity of consistent brass is from a class that is all shooting the same ammo. I've attended classes where there were ~13 shooters all required to use frangible ammo. They all sourced it from the same place. At the end of each day, the cases were cleaned off the line and filled a 5-gallon bucket. It was available to anyone who wanted it at no cost. I didn't take it myself because it was 9x19, which I don't shoot or reload. But it was all certainly once-fired and the same headstamp from the same lot.