Bullet selection with a 45-70, for coyotes?

[Bowhunter57]

Given the ballistic speeds of a 45-70, the likely possibility of a 300 gr. JHP opening up on a coyote are slim to none. Even if a larger bone(s) were hit, a coyote just doesn't have the mass for good bullet expansion, considering the size and lack of speed of a bullet...out of a 45-70.

It's with this thought that I'm considering using a heavier cast bullet, for increased accuracy vs. a lighter jacketed bullet that would only produce...at best, another 200+ f.p.s.

I'm open to bullet types (jacketed vs. cast) and weights.
(This is a Marlin 1895 Cowboy w/ 26" octagon barrel and open sights.)

I appreciate your experiences and suggestions.
Bowhunter57

 

[horsey300]

Given the ballistic speeds of a 45-70, the likely possibility of a 300 gr. JHP opening up on a coyote are slim to none. Even if a larger bone(s) were hit, a coyote just doesn't have the mass for good bullet expansion, considering the size and lack of speed of a bullet...out of a 45-70.

It's with this thought that I'm considering using a heavier cast bullet, for increased accuracy vs. a lighter jacketed bullet that would only produce...at best, another 200+ f.p.s.

I'm open to bullet types (jacketed vs. cast) and weights.
(This is a Marlin 1895 Cowboy w/ 26" octagon barrel and open sights.)

I appreciate your experiences and suggestions.
Bowhunter57

Are we saving hides?

 

[Llama Bob]

What you need is a softer bullet - Barnes original or Hawk come to mind. They have pure lead cores and a soft copper jacket and open up at very low velocities - like handgun velocities. Retain weight OK too. With Hawk you can choose your jacket thickness to make sure they do what you want. The 300gr hollowpoint with a 0.025 jacket seems tailored to what you want to do.

Then you drive it fast. Your best bet is all the Accurate 2495 you can cram in the case - load ratios up to 120% are perfectly safe and should give you velocities in the 2300+ ft/s range. 2400+ ft/s is possible with the help of a drop tube. Be sure to use a flat seating plug so you don't mangle the nose of that soft Hawk bullet. If you need load data help we can figure something out.

The resulting load will give you a 210y point blank range and will expand out past 500y. If you need more reach than that, you need a different gun.

 

[Bowhunter57]

Are we saving hides?

No!!! I'm out for the killing of the coyotes!
I'm showing them the same mercy they show the whitetail fawns...NONE!

Bowhunter57

 

[horsey300]

No!!! I'm out for the killing of the coyotes!
I'm showing them the same mercy they show the whitetail fawns...NONE!

Bowhunter57

Then literally ANY bullet you can shoot accurately as far out as you can hit the vitals will work fine.

 

[jmr40]

You are over thinking this. A 45 caliber hole with no expansion = dead coyote.

 

[stoky]

sabots?
maybe a single loaded proposition in a lever gun

 

[dieselchief]

I shoot some 45 70. known sight setting at certain distances is gonna be more important. flat trajectory is not one of its' plusses. if you have a certain spot perhaps you can have range markers already stationed in the field. dc

 

[MachIVshooter]

You are over thinking this. A 45 caliber hole with no expansion = dead coyote.

My thoughts exactly. Even a "creampuff" load out of a .45-70 is gonna anchor a pasture poodle with authority.

 

[someguy2800]

Im willing to bet a 300 gr jhp will mushroom if it hits a can of coke. As others have noted you could be shooting 45 caliber ball bearings and the results will still be a dead coyote basically anywhere you hit it.

 

[Varminterror]

Given the ballistic speeds of a 45-70, the likely possibility of a 300 gr. JHP opening up on a coyote are slim to none. Even if a larger bone(s) were hit, a coyote just doesn't have the mass for good bullet expansion, considering the size and lack of speed of a bullet...out of a 45-70.

Your expectation for "likely possibility" of expansion is incorrect.

Your expectation has not matched my experience in hunting with the .45-70 for over 25yrs, including dozens of coyotes taken with it, from 18" barrels up to 32". Bullets designed for use with the 45-70 are incredibly "soft," and will expand even at its modest velocities. It doesn't take much to open the 325grn Leverevolution or the 300grn Ballistic Silvertip. These both are on the "a bit too explosive" side of the line for whitetail deer, which can be an advantage if you want to take deer with them out to 300yrds, and makes them about ideal for coyotes, if you don't care about saving fur. It has been many years since I've used the Remington Semi-Jacketed bullets, but they also expand well at low velocity (which is the intent in using a semi-jacket). I only get about 1790fps out of the 325 FTX factory load, it'll peel the entire tip back to the shank on whitetail deer, and mushrooms very well in coyotes.

As others have mentioned, even using hardcast, you'll knock a big damned hole in a coyote with a 45-70 - they go down hard when you hit them where you should. Adding ANY expansion on top is just icing on the cake.

Here's a 325 Hornady FTX found under the hide of a whitetail buck at 250yrds. This is very similar to what I see at shorter ranges (higher velocity impacts) even in lighter animals. Plenty of expansion, plenty of penetration. Maybe a little less retention than I want - but it seems that expansion would be favorable in your education of .45-70 bullet selection for low animal weight expansion.

 

[458MinMag]

I agree that any .45cal bullet will result in a dead yote, but l would like to see what a Barnes 250gr TSX flat nose bullet would do. That bullet has a wicked looking hollow point.

 

[Merle1]

You are over thinking this. A 45 caliber hole with no expansion = dead coyote.

that's my opinion too.....

 

[CraigC]

You are over thinking this. A 45 caliber hole with no expansion = dead coyote.

Agreed.

 

[dh1633pm]

My father got one with a 500 grain lead bullet (.458). It was a shot of opportunity. He wasn't hunting them at the time. They killed his cat and he doesn't particularly like cats. But it was his. He said it made a hole clean through and the coyote just fell over. I agree, 45 caliber may just leave a 45 caliber hole, but its enough.

 

[highlander 5]

45/70 for coyote I like it. Have a friend who has the same rifle and 400 gr bullets are the biggest that will feed in your Marlin. I've used a 250 gr cast 45 Colt RNFP in my 45/70 For light target loads and if loaded to say 1300 fps you should get decant range and minimal recoil.

 

[Bowhunter57]

Varminterror, I appreciate your 25+ years of experience with the 45-70 and will try some light weight cast bullets.
Thank you, to everyone else that contributed with your "over thinking" responses. This 45-70 is my first large bore rifle. I had a .308, but never had the chance to put it through any hunting experiences.

Anyway, I'll be shopping for some cast hollow point bullets and looking for some loading data for them too.
I loaded some IMR-3031 at 52 grains with a Hornady 300 gr. JHP, but they didn't group to my satisfaction.

Bowhunter57

 

[Jim Watson]

This one ought to splatter a coyote if it expands, seems kind of hard. Maybe it will fragment.
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-custom-custom-330gr-hp-gc/

 

[eastbank]

i shoot long range with my 45-70,s, open sights and with scopes. my favorite long rang 45-70 is this winchester repo high wall short rifle with a older 6x weaver T target scope. as the drop is very large with the big slow moving slug, a good range finder is a must as a 50 yard error will mean a miss on most smaller targets. i shoot mostly just targets with my 45-70,s, but i have killed groundhogs and deer with them. i like a 350gr bullet for hunting, for most target work i shoot a 400gr-525gr cast bullets.eastbank.

 

[richard0110]

The 45-70 is by far my favorite cartridge. It is highly effective, and adaptable to any shooting situation in the hands of a skilled rifleman. I have several 45-70's, and I shoot a lot of ground hogs with mine. I also cast my own bullets for the 45-70, and there is some great satisfaction when you make a great shot on an animal with a bullet that you made. It is a Hoot.

I normally take my Sharp's out a few times each year. I call her Big Girl. I have made shots in the 300 to 350 yard range with her. However I will admit that I have missed a bunch also. However it is a blast to shoot ground hogs with a 45-70. And I see no need to load it down.

 

[Geno]

Oregon Trail makes awesome hardcast projectiles. Just an FYI.

Gotta love the .45-70! Let us know how it goes.

Geno

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

45/70 for coyotes...not only overkill but not gonna save any hides, I use .17 hmr.22 mag, .223, max .22-250...but if you got money to burn, love the recoil and damaged pelts, have at it...

 

[FL-NC]

Anatomically, its a dog. Considering we regularly shoot these things dead with 55 grain 5.56 ball that offers no expanson.... see my point?

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Try these for funzies....

https://underwoodammo.com/shop/45-70-government-p-305-grain-xtreme-penetrator/

 

[BigBore44]

Look into Missouri Bullet Company for cast bullets. They offer THR members a discount. As for powders, 3031, 4198, 4895, and and a few others. But my best accuracy is with 4895 for cast and 4198 for jacketed.