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Bullet setback does exist

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Ehtereon11B, Nov 25, 2012.

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  1. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

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    Unloaded my XD .45 to start its weekly cleaning. Extracted the round from the chamber and it looked a little odd. Sure enough the round has been pushed down. Next round in the magazine measured 1.267" and the round from the chamber 1.177

    Anyone else experience setback this bad? Is there any ammo that seems more resistant to it? These are Blazer 230gr FMJ.
     
  2. Drail

    Drail Member

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    .45 ACP runs at relatively low pressure compared to most handgun cartridges so you have some room for an increase. With say, a .40, you have much less room for an increase in pressure. If you want ammo that will not setback you must load it yourself. The ammo companies have decided they have no legal responsibility for their product and they make no guarantees regarding setback. You cannot rely on the ammo companies anymore to address this problem. They do not care. It is no more difficult to load ammo that will not setback. You just have to care and pay attention to dimensions. Until you have learned to load your own quality ammo you must get out of the habit of rechambering rounds. It is an accident waiting to happen. I would take any chambered rounds and throw them in a box and when you get a bunch measure them very carefully. If they have set back don't shoot them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  3. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

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    The .45 is the only round I have noticed setback on. I would chamber and rechamber my .40s much more and never saw any bullet setback on those, even with calipers. I think the most setback I ever witnessed on a .40 was 0.005" and was still within the minimum OAL.
     
  4. smalls

    smalls Member

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    I've found Hornady to be the worst perpetrator of setback, at least in 9mm.

    I stopped using their products because I had one bullet setback almost .20 after clambering it twice.
     
  5. bowserb

    bowserb Member

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    I notice it with Winchester .45 acp 230 gr JHP after a round has been rechambered maybe 3 times. I save these until I have a full mag (9 rounds) and take that mag to the range. They look bad but so far no failures when I shoot them.
     
  6. iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns

    iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns Member

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    I'm not 100% sure as to why this works, but I haven't had a single case of setback since I started loading the chambered round for carry from an empty magazine. Been doing this for about a year with no setback now. The empty mag doesn't have to be your carry mag of course, but for some reason it works, I'm thinking it has something to do with the mag-spring upward pressure. Curious if anyone else does this with the same or different results.
     
  7. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Bullet setback is why I urge people not to buy a 357 sig for ccw.

    Two rechamberings in a glock netted me almost .030" worth of setback on service grade ammunition.

    This would get expensive in a hurry for us civilians who don't shoot our carry ammo exclusively with a .gov footing the bill.

    IMO anyone who relies on a semiautomatic handgun for personal protection needs to own a set of calipers too.



    posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
     
  8. Aaron1100us

    Aaron1100us Member

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    I only get it in my G33 357 SIG. I love the 357 SIG for carry, just wish it didn't have set back issues.

    Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. joecil

    joecil Member

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    Here is a trick I picked up a long time ago that will really cut down on the set back problem. Now if you like me keep one in the pipe I will pull the full magazine and remove the single shell in the pipe. Now I will use an empty magazine to load that round back in the gun then put in the full magazine. A fully loaded magazine the first few rounds in most cases is where you see it however if the magazine is empty except a single round it can be loaded a lot of times before you will notice much set back. This is especially true with 1911 however I've also seen it on other auto loaders I own.
     
  10. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Question, do press checks cause any setback? Does lightly pulling the slide back just a bit to see the brass and letting it forward push the bullet any?
     
  11. bowserb

    bowserb Member

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    Thanks, joecil. I've got to try this, because, like someone else here pointed out, we normal people can't afford to spend our money on hollowpoints for practice...the way the government can afford to spend our money!
     
  12. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    What would happen if you open the action with no mag, drop a round into the chamber, release the slide, and insert a full mag?
     
  13. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Depends on the gun. Sometimes nothing at all. Other times it can mess up the case rim, or damage your extractor, or just not work at all.
     
  14. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Ah, so with some guns the ejector will readily pop onto the case rim when the slide goes forward on the manually chambered round, and on some it won't.

    I had the idea of trying this with a Glock, and it basically failed to go into battery.
     
  15. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I used to do this all the time, and then I heard you can ruin the extractor. So I stopped. I wonder if having an external or an internal extractor makes a difference. I never had any problem on the Stoegar Cougar I did this with. It had an external extractor.

    I have noticed this with Hornady ammo, in particular the Critical Defense. This is unfortunate, because I like Hornady in every other regard. I have started doing the empty mag trick, because I just started carrying a semi on a regular basis. We'll see if that makes a difference.

    The Springfield XDs seems to generate a lot of setback, but I wonder if the stiff recoil spring they put in it contributes to this. I would guess so. I'm assamed to admit that I find myself riding the slide now and then.
     
  16. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Member

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    Loading direct into the chamber is a nice feature, one that I enjoy on my Beretta. But do not attempt to do it with a 1911. The type of extractor is what determines it. Beretta and lots of guns designed to allow chamber-loading (so it isn't worthless if you lose all your magazines) whereas the 1911 the case rim slides up from the magazine, under the extractor. And there is not enough flexibility in the extractor to allow chamber-loading.

    It should not affect anything since no force is being applied to the bullet itself. The extractor pulls on the case rim to pull it back a bit, and then going forward, it stops when the case mouth hits the front of the chamber. If the bore is tight I suppose it could push a bit on the bullet, but it will only push it once, any subsequent pushes would not make it go farther into the brass.
     
  17. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Set back is essentially due to insufficient case neck tension AND feedramp angles. Some guns are worse than others but the ammo is the main reason we are seeing many more set back complaints now. Press checking does not push the bullet back into the case. The feed cycle does. If I had to unload and reload daily (or more) I would just carry a revolver. With the factory offerings repeated chamberings is simply a risky practice. Try to avoid doing it. (unless you handload your own ammo - then you have control)
     
  18. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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  19. Ehtereon11B

    Ehtereon11B internet infantryman

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    I'll have to try that with my XD sometime in the next few days. I have a "spare" magazine that I can try it with.

    Edit* Tried that technique just now with one of the Blazer brass giving me trouble. COAL started out at 1.2675" and was chambered in the XD 10 times using an empty magazine with slide slamming full forward. After the 10th cycle COAL was measured 1.2485. So some bullet setback occurs but not nearly as fast as using a full mag.

    I carry Hornady CD ammo in my 9mm and I never noticed setback. But the 9mm didn't have a slide release, just a catch. So that might have something to do with it.

    On another note I noticed that the Blazer .45 uses small pistol primers instead of large. Is there any chance this won't feed through the XD as well as large primers?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  20. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    Another trick to prevent setback is to simply put the gun in the safe with a round in the chamber -- constant loading and unloading is more dangerous than keeping a gun loaded.

    But, if you must, run your carry ammo through a taper crimp die and lean on the handle hard. That will increase neck tension to the point where setback just about goes away.
     
  21. AethelstanAegen

    AethelstanAegen Member

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    My Cimarron 1911 initially caused bad set back on rounds chambered 1-2 times. I contacted them and they felt what I described was not normal and had me send the pistol in for repair and they polished the feed ramp and now it no longer causes any sort of set back and also feeds HPs reliably. For what it's worth, I fired the setback rounds in my XD45 with no problems...but I would not suggest that. Take note of how bad the setback is and after how many times you've chambered the rounds. At some point if it seems bad enough, contact Springfield and see what they say.
     
  22. tryshoot

    tryshoot Member

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    One ammo manufacter I remember saying do not feed over 3 times from mag to prevent setback.
     
  23. coalman

    coalman Member

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    Always odd to me, despite the clear preponderance of evidence, some people still really must have it happen to them before it's real. Yes, bullet setback is real. Glad we got that settled. Ammo with a crimp behind the bullet can help, but few bother with that now. I ride the slide into battery instead of allowing it to slam home. But, the best medicine is to limit cycling and check ammo. Same as always.
     
  24. Steel Talon

    Steel Talon Member

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    Do a bit a prudent house keeping and you'll be good to go.

    This is what I do with all my semi auto pistols/calibers

    *Rotate top round to the bottom of the magazine regularly I sharpie the primer on this cartridge.

    *It's also good for the mag spring,and knocking out any holster debris that may have gotten in.

    *After a complete rotation the magazine load needs to go to the range for qual/practice

    I also schedule my SD revolver ammo for range rotation.

    FWIW
    ST~
     
  25. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    Same here. I have a round here that I chambered a couple times... It's noticeably shorter than the other rounds that are in the box. I never had this problem with Federal or Speer products, so I will be shooting these and going back to Gold Dots.
     
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