Bullets That Don't Perform The Same In All Calibers

[Double Naught Spy]

Got into a discussion with a buddy of mine about various bullet models, such as Hornady A-Max, or Remington Core Lokt and how they perform in different calibers for hunting.

From your own experience, have you ever found that a given bullet that performed well in one caliber did not perform as the same in another caliber for hunting? For example, maybe you found that it expanded well in one caliber and failed to expand or "blew up" in another caliber.

 

[Patocazador]

I don't shoot A-Max but I've shot a heck of a lot of Core-Lokts. Almost all of the Core-Lokts shucked the copper jacket but they did their job.

If a bullet fragments or sheds its jacket, is it defective? In my book if it does its job and the meat is on the ground, it is a good bullet.

As far as caliber differences go, if you push any bullet beyond its designed capabilities, you're asking for trouble. Too high a velocity or too massive an animal and that bullet will fail. This has more to do with powder capacity and jacket thickness than caliber though.

 

[jmr40]

Bullets almost never fail to do what they were designed to do. Often people use a bullet for something other than what it was designed for and then complain that it failed.

Most standard cup and core bullets are designed to expand, but not blow up, if they impact between roughly 1800-2800 fps. Within the same caliber heavier bullets penetrate deeper. When comparing bullets of different calibers the sectional densities of the bullets are the best predictor of penetration. People will often compare a 150 gr bullet in one caliber to a 150 gr bullet in another caliber and expect similar performance. It doesn't work that way.

For example I can load a 150 gr 30-06 to 3000-3100 fps. I can also load a 150 gr 270 to 2900-3000 fps. Even if they are both the same bullet, performance will be much different. The 30-06 load at that speed might well blow up and give poor penetration at close range. On a small deer it might mean more damaged meat, but will probably kill it. On bigger game it might matter. At longer ranges the 30-06/150 will actually do better than at close range since it will be impacting slower.

The 150 gr 270 bullet is far more likely to stay together and will penetrate much deeper on bigger game. Partly because it is impacting slower. Partly because it has a much tougher bullet with a higher sectional density. (.279 vs .226). Even if it is the same manufacturer and model. To get similar performance the 30-06 should be shooting 180 gr bullets (SD .271) at around 2800-2900 fps.

If I wanted to shoot 150's in 30 caliber I'd get better results at typical hunting ranges from a 308 at 2800-2900 fps. That is shooting those bullets in the velocity range they were designed for. From a 300 magnum at 3300-3400 fps you'd get poor performance up close. But since they started faster, they would stay above the 1800 fps minimum speed needed for expansion farther down range. The 308 will drop below that speed at around 400-500 yards, the 300 magnum might stay above 1800 fps out to 600-700 yards.

When you get into premium bullets the velocity ranges they are designed for are different and vary between manufacturers. I think the key is to understand at what speed the chosen bullet is designed to work and don't try to make it work outside those parameters.

 

[Captcurt]

The only bullets that I can think of that will preform similarly at different velocities is the Nosler Partition and Swift A-frame. These are the ones to pick when in doubt.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I loaded 150 Hornady interlock bullets in my 30-06 and they performed as described by the manufacturer, but later I took the 150 gr interlock for 8mm Mauser and loaded it up to about 30-06, 150gr interlock speed and shot a deer with it.
There was a 4" exit wound on the back side of the deer that I could put my hand through.

I suspect that 8mm Interlock was regulated to expand at normal 8mm Mauser speeds of about 2200 fps. Not 2900 fps.
So the construction of the bullet for a given caliber will not be the same as in a different caliber.
The bullets, even though they are the same weight and same brand, will not be the same construction for a different caliber, no matter how close the size and weight is.

 

[jmorris]

From your own experience, have you ever found that a given bullet that performed well in one caliber did not perform as the same in another caliber for hunting?

I have, I even have some loads that work great in some rifles and completely useless in other rifles chambered in the same caliber.

Most notably the Speer 52 gn JHP’s work great in slow twist barrels but will disintegrate upon exit of a 1:7 twist barrel.

Calibers can vary a lot, I wouldn’t expect a Remington .224 JSP to give me the same results I get out their 405 gn .458 JSP.

 

[Flintknapper]

Calibers can vary a lot, I wouldn’t expect a Remington .224 JSP to give me the same results I get out their 405 gn .458 JSP.

^^^^^

Hear Ya!

 

[LoonWulf]

I have not found a line of bullets that really responded that differently between the calibers. With the balistic tips, the early 120 .284s SEEMED a lot tougher than the other balistic tips. I cant say that with any certainty, but im pretty sure those had thicker jackets.

If were considering the A-max, they have all performed about the same for me, at similar velocities and sectional densities. Get them up above 3100fps and your probably going to have some issues on short shots. Like wise below about 2500fps launch velocity, and they loose the explosive wounding that makes them such impressive performer.

 

[Captcurt]

I didn't mention the Accubond in an earlier post. I have shot them in of several different calibers and the only one that I wasn't pleased with was the 150gr in my 300 WSM. It was like a grenade at close range. The 165's worked better for me, but the 150 was great in the 300 Savage.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Sierra Gameking DO NOT act the same across the different bullet weights and calibers.

The only one that has been pretty much the same no matter what caliber I've shot them in is the Nosler Accubond and the Speer Gold Dot made for rifles.

 

[DocRock]

Hornady FTX. The .308 160 grs for 30-30? Excellent on hogs, at least up to 300 lbs which covers my experience with the bullet. the 265 grs .429 for 444 Marlin? Too fragile.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Hornady FTX. The .308 160 grs for 30-30? Excellent on hogs, at least up to 300 lbs which covers my experience with the bullet. the 265 grs .429 for 444 Marlin? Too fragile.

I concede, it is very difficult to subjectively compare two bullets of such differing diameters and weights but this has been by experience as well with the FTX in 30-30 and 444 Marlin. I would rather use a 30-30 FTX bullet on hogs than the 444 FTX. The 444 FTX is excellent on deer though.

Many folks think hogs are a lot like deer in terms of their.....killability...which is true for the typical 150 and under hogs but bigger ones have bigger bones than deer and thicker fur and more fat and can be problematic for marginal bullets. In the end though a 444 FTX will kill most any pig.

@jmr40 pretty well summed it up about as succinctly as possible.

 

[horsey300]

Barnes have different velocity windows for bullets designed for different cartridges, some have a lower threshold, others are higher, carries through on both rifle and pistol bullets.

 

[Seamaster31]

I do not care for the Barnes TSX in calibers under .308". I do like the TSX in the larger caliber cartridges such as the .375".

The TTSX does seem to fix any expansion issues the TSX had in the smaller calibers.

 

[marksman13]

Not caliber specific per say, but cartridge specific. I grew up shooting a 30-06 with 150 gr Remington Core Lokts, but when I started shooting a 308 I found myself less than impressed with the same bullet fired from a 308 case. I just don’t like the Core Lokt bullets in a 308.

 

[.308 Norma]

Not caliber specific per say, but cartridge specific. I grew up shooting a 30-06 with 150 gr Remington Core Lokts, but when I started shooting a 308 I found myself less than impressed with the same bullet fired from a 308 case. I just don’t like the Core Lokt bullets in a 308.

Hmm, my experience is different. Different animals maybe? Or different average shooting distances perhaps?
I grew up using a 308 with Core Lokts for mule deer and elk - 150gr for mule deer, and 180gr for elk. I never found Core Lokts lacking for those two critters at the average shooting distances for me out here in Idaho.
However, sometime in the early '80s I decided I just had to have a flatter shooting rifle, so I changed to a 30-06, and I'm not sure I ever fired a factory load in it. I used my own, 165gr Hdy handloads at about 2,800fps MV for pronghorns, mule deer and elk.
Of course I've gone to a 308 Norma Mag (my retirement rifle) now, and I use 165gr Sierra BTHPs at around 3,100fps MV for mule deer and elk. I'll use the same load for a pronghorn too if I ever draw another tag.
Anyway, I've never yet found a 30 caliber bullet that didn't work if I hit the animal in the right place. Shamefully, once I lost a nice 3-point mule deer buck that I shot with my 30-06 using a 165gr. Hdy at 2,800fps MV. He was only maybe 40 yards when I hit him. But I hit him in a hind leg, and he got away.