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Bump stock ban: what happens when we hit the deadline?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Elkins45, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I know there have been lawsuits filed seeking to overturn the bump stock ban, but March 2x (I forget the exact date) continues to relentlessly approach. What owners who don't wish to destroy them are hoping for is an injunction and eventually a declaration that the ban is unlawful. My question is what happens if there isn't an injunction issued by the deadline yet the lawsuits are still in progress?

    Is the existence of a legal challenge sufficient grounds to hold onto them, or do owners have to destroy them and then maybe just buy a new one if the suit is eventually successful? Or bury it on public land and then maybe dig it up later? :) <--this is a joke.

    Is the suit even going to be heard before the destruction deadline?
     
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  2. Jinx0760

    Jinx0760 Member

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    The decision you are facing, will likely be made by many Americans in the coming years, and not just bumpstocks.
     
  3. Hunter86004

    Hunter86004 Member

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    Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
    Not legal advise, but:
    1) There's no way to trace one.
    2) To search your home looking for it, they will need a search warrant.
    3) If I was really concerned, I own a shovel and sold mine to some guy in a bar.
     
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  4. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    I see an increase in boating accidents in the coming months.
     
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  5. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    As I understand it, if their is no injunction granted before March 26th it will be a NFA violation to own or poses a bump stock after that date.
    The fact that their will still be lawsuits filed isn’t relevant.
     
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  6. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    My guess is there is not going to be any relief. I do hope there will be relief but politically, bump stocks do not have the proponents. We have seen how powerful political views are.
     
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  7. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    In most cases I don't think that's quite true. It's a safe bet that the majority of people who own one bought it with a credit or debit card, which means it's traceable. I've got no dog in the fight since I sold mine a while back but it is something to think about for those who still have them.
     
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  8. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    No, that would mean they know you purchased it, then what?
    Gifted it?
    Sold it?
    Broke it?
    Didn’t like it and threw it in garbage?
    It got stole?
    I forget what I did with that thing, hummm?
    And on and on.
    They can’t be traced.

    Not to mention I have no idea how the fed government could get a hold to the CC records of every US citizen, then narrow them down to a single purchase. Likely many, many legal issues their, not to mention other logical issues.
     
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  9. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Who knows. One can only hope that a court sees the wisdom of not making instant felons of millions of otherwise law abiding citizens and enjoins enforcement of the new rules until it can be adjudicated.

    I would guess that if that doesn't happen the ATF is not going to be real serious about enforcing the ban. They have more important things to do. But it is like dealing with the IRS. They don't care all that much about minor violations of the tax laws either but now and then they will go after someone for trivial violations. It is also possible that the president could issue an order not to enforce the ban until it is adjudicated. He certainly has that authority.

    You may just have to decide whether you want to take the risk. Personally, I never owned one, and don't have one now, so it is not an issue for me, so I do not have to make such an awful choice.
     
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  10. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    lying to the feds is a crime. best bet would probably be to take the 5th if it ever comes up.
     
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  11. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Member

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    True, but if you’re illegally keeping an unregistered NFA item, the legality of lying to the ATF probably isn’t your biggest concern. Also the point was as applies to tracking, they can’t trace them because many people would tell them lies, others would tell them the same answers and they’d be true. And they’d be hard pressed to know who’s who.

    Obviously, the simple, safe thing to do is simply obey the law, however much we dislike it. That’s my personal advise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  12. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    Heck, bump stocks really don't have many proponents on this website, much less the less gun friendly sites. I would imagine they will go away fairly quietly as our "friend of the NRA Prez" does the first meaningful anti gun thing a President has done since Clinton.
     
  13. GAF

    GAF Member

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    If I owned a bump stock I would hold on to it until the 25th of March. If no relief from an injunction while the case was being heard I would destroy it. To do anything else IMHO would be foolish and risking your right to own guns for life. I know there are going to be people who will keep them.
    I have never owned a bump stock and have never had an interest in them, but as I see it if I was interested it would only to do a couple of mag dumps to test the bump stocks efficacy and reliability. After that I would lose interest and it would just sit on the shelf.
     
  14. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I think you just hit a home run. I understand the principle behind non-violent, civil disobedience on this, but I don't understand how that is practical. Getting caught means a felony record and a DQ from ever owning guns again, but what, if any, is the upside of retaining a bump stock and not getting caught? (Answer: not much.) You can never take it to a range and use it ever again. The only thing you can do is store and bring it out during the apocalypse to fight your own government, and from what I've seen, they won't be very effective for that.
     
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  15. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    This came up in our coffee circle. So, turn it in to closest BATFE office, ask for receipt or record the submission. Or both.
    Become a part of respective lawsuits seeking $$$ relief for the documented destruction, loss of future use, appreciation value/future sale, etc.
    Further, contact the NRA who GAVE BIRTH (oh! how anti-2A persons in high places must have :)smiled!!) TO THE :evil:MONSTER with a hearty ''THANKS!"


     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  16. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    I figure if you are going to violate the NFA simply because of the above... you might as well go whole-hog and build a DIAS/LL. The punishment is the same for BS's after the date, but at least you are really getting a machine gun for your troubles if you have an unregistered DIAS/LL. The responses below are far more realistic and mature.

    Risk/reward - hanging on to an unregistered NFA device is full of risk with little to no reward. Even if you destroy the BS, you're only out a couple hundred bucks at most. Just the phone call to your lawyer when you get caught with an unregistered BS will cost far more than that.

     
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  17. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    I agree with what you wrote.

    However, I also feel that what you wrote will apply to 30 and 20 round magazines next time around.
     
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  18. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    This makes a lot of sense, especially given that one of the lawsuits challenges the ban on the grounds that it represents an illegal taking without compensation. It would be fun if the ATF had to write me a check rather than the other way around.
     
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  19. Gridley

    Gridley Member

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    Yup. The "gun controllers" are boiling the frog. And the NRA is, for good or ill, letting them get away with turning the heat up a bit in this case.

    On the flip side, a standard capacity magazine ban or de-facto mandatory registration (both in draft legislation at this time) are much more serious problems. The NRA, GOA, etc. only have so much money, and have to pick their fights.

    I've never owned a bump stock, never heard of them before the proposed ban in fact, but I oppose the ban (heavily because the way the BATFE set up the ban opens the door for many future violations). I put a comment in when the regulation was in draft opposing it. Still, even if I did own a bump stock that's not the hill I'd be willing to die on.

    The problem is that I'm sure I know firearm owners who'd feel the same way about standard capacity magazines. Or any semi-auto. Or...

    I hope we can figure out how to stand together before its too late.
     
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  20. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I would love for one of the resident lawyers to weigh in on the precedents or accepted legal procedure (if there is one) when legal challenges are ongoing in the face of an approaching regulatory deadline.
     
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  21. Drail

    Drail Member

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    More gun control laws, more civil asset forfeitures and more of the War on Drugs are NOT making America great again. It's the same old song and dance. Wake up people. You are being deluded and led around by the same old politicians.
     
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  22. dh1633pm

    dh1633pm Member

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    Lots being said but it boils down to choices. Go rogue or go legal. Your choice.
     
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  23. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Take a look at your devices, and consider how they could be “destroyed” while still being somewhat easily repaired to functional condition. If you cut off a piece, how hard would it be to put it back together should that option ever be realistic. Yes I understand that they could go after you for a work in progress, but that is such a stretch that it’s ludicrous. It’s legal to own all of the parts to make a machinegun, but it’s not legal to possess a machinegun... apply that to a bumpstock.
     
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  24. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    Don't get me wrong, even though I think BS's are novelty devices with no real use, I certainly don't agree with the action the executive took. The ban needs to be fought in court, but the benefit to violating the law in the meantime in this case just isn't there. Magazine restrictions? Calculus is a little different because the magazines actually make the weapon more effective.

    Like I said, if you are going to buck the NFA to keep your bumpstock, might as well just make a real machinegun. The risk is the same, and you get a real machinegun. (note: I am not suggesting anyone go off and actually build an unregistered MG...)

    1) The ATF has already told us how to destroy them... even the home-brew varieties - https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks/how-to-destroy

    2) You are wrong and don't understand the law.

     
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  25. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    Let me start by saying that I haven't read any of the pending challenges, or even followed them. With that said, courts typically put everything on hold while a challenge is pending by issuing injunctions. Unless the gov't is somehow harmed by the injunction, I would expect one to issue, as the challengers have to have alleged harm by enforcement of the law. If the challengers didn't request injunctive and declaratory relief, in addition to $$$ damages, they messed up on Step #1, IMNSHO.
     
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