Quantcast

Bump Stocks not being turned in.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Jack B., Apr 16, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mdauben

    mdauben Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,399
    Location:
    Huntville, AL
    As far as bump-stock themselves are concerned, I don't care about them. I think they are a stupid toy and I would not take one if you gave it to me for free even before the ban.

    On the other hand, I care a LOT about the BAN. First off, it has no basis in law. A bump-stock is not a machine gun and the laws regarding machine guns do not cover it. The ATF already made a ruling to this effect. The president in effect ordered ATF to make them illegal with no basis in the law. Second, as other have said, it does not take a bump-stock to "bump fire" a semiautomatic rifle. This gross misinterpretation of the law leaves open the door for mis-classifying all semiautomatic firearms as "machine guns" depending on the whims of the POTUS current and the political leanings of the court system.
     
  2. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,520
    Location:
    "Land of (dis)Enchantment"
    I am guessing that most bump stock owners who chose to comply with the ban destroyed them. Why would they want to attract unneeded attention by turning them in?
     
  3. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,727
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    The "war" is not for bump stocks. The war is for the right of the people to be free.
     
  4. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,295
    Location:
    TX
    The threat is the precedent of the action. The correct solution would have been for the President to ask Congress to examine the issue and propose appropriate legislation. That legislation may or may not have been constitutional.

    Another president or this one (not a true believer) could easily come up with a rationale for the banning of higher capacity magazines and have ATF enforce it. Weapon of mass destruction, public health menace, something could be found. I wouldn't trust the courts or Congress to undo such an action.

    As I said before noncompliance makes them useless as you can't hunt, compete or use them in self-defense. So you hid them, so what. Isn't like pot or alcohol or the past illegal sex acts that you could use in your own home with discretion but some risk. Going to shoot up the basement?
     
    Theohazard, mdauben and Styx like this.
  5. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,765
    Location:
    Tampa Bay area
    Florida banned bump-stocks a year before the feds did, I have not seen any evidence of folks going down to the police office to turn them over.
     
  6. Styx

    Styx Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    975
    Could be destroyed, or sold out of state online, or hidden... I honestly think most are holding off from destroying theirs in hopes something will change. If I owned one, I'd just destroy it rather than waste time traveling to having someone else do it.
     
    mrmike7189 and P5 Guy like this.
  7. GAF

    GAF Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    879
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I think only foolish people will keep their bump stock / stocks. The first one to be caught with one will be the test case and probably live to regret that decision. I suspect if a bump stock owner puts it in a box on a shelf that person will probably never be found out, but what that is is a potential problem waiting to find you.
     
    alsaqr and Styx like this.
  8. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    842
    Please remember, the lawsuits(s) on this issue still continue. Just the possession of said item is lost. Either owners turned them in or destroyed them. That's if they wanted to be 100% kosher pending outcome.

    All is not lost yet and yes the bigger picture is in fact, applying this methodology to render a decision 5 years, 10 years from now on another facet of lawful 2A items and their ownership.
     
  9. deadin

    deadin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,236
    Location:
    Ocean Shores, WA
    Laws can be changed.(And in the case of bump stocks, maybe it should have been a re-write of the definition of just what a machine gun is instead of the unilateral decision that is being used to ban them).
     
    mdauben likes this.
  10. mdauben

    mdauben Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,399
    Location:
    Huntville, AL
    Yes, laws can be changed and it this case if the President and Congress agreed that bump stocks should be banned, they should have been.

    Of course the problem with that is that the examples of bump stock banning legislation to date have been so hazy as to, again, open the door to expanding the ban beyond bump stocks themselves to anything the government could argue would "speed up" the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle (better trigger? Bolt mods? Oiling your rifle?).
     
  11. Gridley

    Gridley Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Washington State
    Even the president and congress are subject to Article VI of the Constitution. Hopefully the courts will remind them of that in this case.
     
    Phaedrus/69 likes this.
  12. deadin

    deadin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,236
    Location:
    Ocean Shores, WA
    Are you ready to register your trigger finger???
     
    Phaedrus/69 likes this.
  13. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,765
    Location:
    Tampa Bay area
    Was there any more than the one LasVegas shooting that used bump-stocks?
    Seems reasonable to ban the thing LEAST used in crime.
     
  14. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,992
    Location:
    Florida
    They tried that with the "Gunsmithing" legislation,(forget what it was called) anything that altered the performance of gun or some such nonsense
     
  15. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,992
    Location:
    Florida
    Seems most folks think Bumpstocks are worthless. I have no use for them but the issue is what is the difference between them and a mag with more than 10 rounds? Binary Triggers, short barrel rifle, Shoulder brace. suppressors.Imported AKs? How many USA parts are needed? Where does it end?

    Those who break the law are gonna break it. Why have a bumpstock if they can illegally have a Full auto?

    The door is now open.

    "Every time there is a shooting spree, they want to take the guns from those who didn't do it"
     
    adcoch1 likes this.
  16. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,186
    Location:
    Morgan County, Alabama
    It seems unreasonable to ban any weapon in a crime, or eventually, everything will be banned.
     
    P5 Guy, Texas10mm and bearcreek like this.
  17. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,141
    Location:
    South Western, OK
    No doubt many are hanging onto their bump stocks. It's unlikely the feds will conduct a bump stock witch hunt. However, "illegal possession of a bump stock" makes a fine secondary charge whenever someone is busted with a small quantity of dope or commits some other offense.
     
  18. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,868
    Location:
    Within the lightning
    Well, lots of illegal drugs are banned. How many people run down to surrender them to the local cops?

    This is human nature at work, as always.
     
  19. Obturation
    • Contributing Member

    Obturation Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Messages:
    816
    Location:
    Northern illinois
    I really doubt the guys who bought them have destroyed or turned them in either. To me theyre a childish toy to begin with and the mentality that led to the purchase in the first place still drives the owners of them to think its ok to ignore the law. As much as i think theyre a goofy and inefficient toy for guys who like to shoot as fast as possible without caring if they hit anything, i dont believe any gun restrictions are constitutional. Im of the opinion that if a citizen can not be trusted with a firearm then they should not be free to roam the streets. A bump stock will never make someone a killer and limiting their access to weapons will not keep someone from doing evil deeds. I think there are millions of bump stocks in the country and nothing short of an act of god could round them all up.
     
  20. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,789
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    We still don't actually know that any were uses in LV. All we have is press speculation and hearsay. LVMetro has been mute on what was collected on scene. Rare for LVM.
     
  21. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,789
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    One of the facts about "our" (pro-gun) culture, is a strong adherence to individualism, self reliance, and eschewing government in all matters. That group pretty much ignores the laws as is, as a matter of just not caring what "the gub'mint" says.

    There's been plenty of teeth gnashing in the NE over the fact that various weapons have not been registered per/despite the recent draconian laws. Having outlawed various semi-autos, many of the State are only showing about 1/3 compliance with the new laws.

    And, of course, that's just a guess, probably not even quantifiable as even an "estimate." For my 2¢, I'd wager the actual compliance is closer to what was seen in Canada, which was less than 5% compliance, and was so obvious, the Canadians rescinded the laws.

    There are rumblings in California that non-compliance is starting to be pretty obvious there, too.

    And, the dichotomy remains--either comply, and be "legal," or don't and be subject to legal proceedings.
     
    mdauben likes this.
  22. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    842
    ''We still don't actually know that any were uses in LV. All we have is press speculation and hearsay. LVMetro has been mute on what was collected on scene. Rare for LVM.''

    Yes correct. However what IS known, when this was presented in the initial (FPC?) lawsuit stay, the .gov attorney had to admit that there was no evidence the evil item was in fact, used.

    And so in court it has been agreed on by both parties that said item was not in fact used, based on the common language traditionally used in court; facts. Should all be over right there and seeing it was not lends itself to the political aspects of it all; just who is whispering in who's ear(s)?
     
    qwert65 and Texas10mm like this.
  23. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    6,186
    Location:
    Morgan County, Alabama
    No LEO may have published a statement saying the Mandalay shooter used bumpstocks, but after hearing and seeing the video, is it really logical to believe he did not? If he did not, were automatic weapons used?
    My brother in law is an ex Army Pathfinder Ranger and he stated the gunfire sounded like an AK-47 to him ------ the real kind, not the neutered WASR-10 type we buy at a gun store.
    I get the difference between belief and knowledge, but IMHO, Occam's Razor suggests he used bumpstock equipped AR rifles, as such were found in the room he used.

    I think that to suggest otherwise is neither helpful or fruitful. In the face of antigunners it will be counter-productive.
     
    P5 Guy and AlexanderA like this.
  24. mrmike7189

    mrmike7189 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Messages:
    243
    Location:
    MA
    "All bumpstocks in America were destroyed by their owners." Nothing more to say
     
    qwert65 likes this.
  25. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,789
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    I'm not entirely sure that applies, as Occam presumes a single, generally stable, data set.
    Which does not exist in this case.

    Instead, we have a narrative, mostly ginned up by collating the varying (and sometimes widely divergent) news stories. That narrative goes, a nutjob, with some sort of evil gun went and shot up a crowd.

    We have hearsay about a cache of weapons, but the description of those are by people who can't tell the difference between an S&W snubbie and an Ak-47. There are just too many gaps and guesses and contradictory "eyewitness" accounts to amount to much more detail than "nut case shot at crowd from hotel."

    From the audio, that sounded like an RPD, particularly with belt drag from being shot w/o an AG. That's just my opinion, and does not even equal 2¢.

    However, everything beyond nutjob shoots into crowd from hotel is speculative at this point.
     
    Ironicaintit and Texas10mm like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice