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Bush to Seek Immigrant Benefit Protection

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Waitone, Jan 4, 2004.

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  1. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    I don't know where to start, so I won't. I will highlight interesting passages.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A52647-2004Jan3?language=printer



    Bush to Seek Immigrant Benefit Protection
    Plan to Include System Enabling Undocumented Workers to Gain Legal Status
    By Mike Allen
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Sunday, January 4, 2004; Page A05


    CRAWFORD, Tex., Jan. 3 -- President Bush will propose protections for the Social Security taxes paid by the workers who would come into the country under massive changes to immigration laws he plans to announce on Wednesday, Republican officials said Saturday.



    Bush's plan would make it possible for such workers from Mexico and perhaps other countries to collect retirement benefits without being penalized by their home countries for the years they spent working in the United States, the officials said.

    Officials began releasing details of Bush's plan shortly before Christmas and provided new details over the weekend. The officials said Bush's plan will contain a new system to help workers who want to enter from Mexico or other countries if they have jobs waiting for them. It also includes a mechanism for some undocumented residents to continue working in the United States and get on a path to legal status.

    Undocumented workers now pay billions of dollars annually into Social Security but do not collect benefits because they give their employers fraudulent Social Security numbers. {editorial comment: prove it. I want to see evidence. I am quite skeptical.}

    Frank Sharry, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, an immigrant advocacy group, said he fears the Social Security plan could be used as an incentive for workers to go home instead of settling in the United States, which could create what he called "a permanent class of temporary workers with no political power." [editorial comment . . . and what is wrong with that??????]

    "The knock that will be put on Republicans is that they want immigrants as workers but not as voters," Sharry said.

    Bush is scheduled to announce the package five days before he meets in Mexico with President Vicente Fox, who has been prodding the White House since Bush was inaugurated to change an immigration system that has resulted in at least 8 million undocumented immigrants -- about half of whom are Mexican -- living in the United States. [editorial comment: why is V. Fox so interested in getting his people into the US. We need a regime change in Mexico. The workers paradise that Fox heads is not working and his solution is to export is malcontents to the US.]

    In Mexico, analysts and officials reacted with cautious optimism to early descriptions of the plan, saying that they viewed the proposal as a sign of markedly improving relations between Bush and Fox. {editorial comment: again, why is it important for Bush to have friendly relations with a country that can not govern itself?]

    Bush worked to develop warm relations with Mexico when he was Texas governor, and his first international trip as president was to Mexico. But the administration began trying to harden the borders after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and Bush distanced himself from Fox after Mexico failed to use its seat on the United Nations Security Council to support the U.S.-led attack on Iraq. [editorial comment: "harden the borders"? Is there something going on that US peasants are not aware of?]

    Fox has said that he and Bush will restart immigration talks privately at the Summit of the Americas, a meeting of the hemisphere's leaders to be held in Monterrey, in the Mexican border state of Baja California. Bush will make his fourth presidential trip to Mexico for the summit on Jan. 12 and 13.

    Fox said last month that the two countries are working on agreements to allow Mexicans "to go and come each year as many times as they want, without problems, and so that they can work with documents in the United States." [editorial comment: someone had better explain how big and why]

    Bush's plans, many of which are similar to ideas endorsed by the Democratic presidential candidates in their platforms and debates, would be the most broad changes to immigration law since a bill signed by President Ronald Reagan in 1986.

    The immigration plan is Bush's first policy announcement of his reelection year, and aides said it was calibrated by Bush's senior adviser, Karl Rove. An official on Bush's political team said the proposal will help bolster support for the president with Hispanic voters, who are regarded by both parties as a constituency that is largely up for grabs, and in the states of Florida and New Mexico, both of which Bush barely won in 2000. Bush travels to Florida on Thursday. [editorial comment: Rove had better start calculating the cost of voter anger is the public is percieving Bush to be sucking up to V. Fox FOR NO APPARENT REASON. I believe there is something going on but neither Bush nor Fox are hinting as to the reason. What is going on just does not make sense based on public information.]

    The proposals will be a test for Bush because some House Republicans are skeptical and even hostile to the idea of liberalizing immigration controls. The Bush official said that in trying to persuade conservative lawmakers to back the package, the administration will contend that it reflects Republican values by rewarding work. [editorial comment: republicans growing a pair of principals? novel, really novel. Reward hard work? Hey, Dubya, how 'bout rewarding obeying the freakin' law?] The administration will also argue that the plan would enhance national security by making it more likely that immigrants with tips about terrorism would cooperate with authorities, because they would not fear deportation. [editorial comment: equine skat]

    Officials said Bush's proposals draw heavily on a bill introduced by Sen. John McCain, his rival in the 2000 primaries, and Reps. Jim Kolbe and Jeff Flake, all Arizona Republicans. That bill would create a Web-based Labor Department database of jobs that would be open first to U.S. workers and then to foreigners, who could be admitted with a "temporary worker" visa available for a maximum of six years. [editorial comment: so now federales are getting in to the head hunting bidness.]

    The Arizonans' bill proposes a new type of visa for workers who are now in the United States illegally. They could come forward and receive this visa for three years. After that, the formerly undocumented worker could apply for a temporary visa like those held by workers under the electronic job registry. [editorial comment: assume for the moment the provision is passed. What do you intend to do with those illegals who did not come forward? Do you intend to say, "Oh, well . . . . "? Interesting the provision as reported has interest in legalizing illegals yet does nothing about illegals in the US and who have no interest in becoming legal. I repeat myself: equine skat.]

    Immigration reform is a top priority of Bush's backers in the business community. [editorial comment: I'll bet it is] Daniel T. Griswold, an immigration expert at the free-enterprise-oriented Cato Institute, called Bush's proposal "compassionate conservatism at its best -- a market-driven approach allowing supply and demand to get together in the labor market." [editorial comment: I call is a capitulation to open border advocates and corporatists who want to shift the cost of labor to government. When do we begin to pay attention to that stuff about obeying the law?]

    [editorial comments} When it comes to amnesty for illegal aliens, I think Rove // Bush is about to do something really unsanitary to their respective messkits.
     
  2. QuickDraw

    QuickDraw Member

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    The more Bush pulls this crap,the less likely he's
    going to get my vote!
    This is the kind of thing that infuriates me.
    If he gets re-elected I'll be surprised!

    QuickDraw
     
  3. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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  4. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    I am perfectly capable of cutting off my nose to spite my face.

    In other words, if there is no discernable difference between Bush and the Democratic candidates on important social issues that affect me directly (illegal immigration and guns), I'm going to vote Democrat.

    I'd rather take it in the gut from an acknowledged enemy than be stabbed in the back by 'friends'.
     
  5. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    :barf:

    still not sure I am going to vote this year. I dont want to see another dem in the office after clinton but Bush really does not inspire me to vote. even if I do vote the electoral college can vote different from majority vote of the area they represent.

    are we ever going to make average joes vote worth a damn and ditch the electoral college? not meant to hijack thread but do remember how the voting process works.
     
  6. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    No, but we can damn sure vote out any Republican Congressman or Senator who backs this asinine proposal.

    The trick is to make your Congresscritter fear his constituency more than he fears the RNC.
     
  7. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    glocksman, instead of taking it from an enemy, vote your principles. See if the LP has a candidate worth voting for.

    When you cant tell teh difference between two parties, one of which doesnt represent you and the other only 20% represents you, its time to vote 3rd party.
     
  8. spartacus2002

    spartacus2002 Member

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    Unfortunately, the Libertarian Party is more "open borders" than Pres. Bush.

    You cannot have open borders AND a welfare state; it just doesn't work.
     
  9. Jonesy9

    Jonesy9 member

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    illegal immigrants are a big part of the economy and generate a ton of profits. if you commies recognized that it's just market forces that drive illegals into job that you don't want and realized that plenty of real Americans profit from this maybe you liberals would shut up. There's jobs for you at WalMart. If your unions hadn't raised you up over the illegals this wouldn't be happening.

    Notice the wording, illegals will be allowed if they have jobs waiting for them. The government is FINALLY going to create what will amount to a giant temp agency, matching illegals to jobs for major corporations completely legally. This has been in the works for several years and will be a huge boon to manufcaturing and agriculture. I'm sure once other industry's see the benefits it will catch on elsewhere. The retail and hospitality industry's are also large proponrnts of the plan.

    Look at the huge strides we have made under Bush. If I am a major corporation I can now incorporate overseas and slash my tax burden. Now, instead of having to do a very costly move and build to Mexico or China, I can keep my stateside plants and bring in cheap labor. The new cheap labor will also have exemptions from some of the rules that govern US workers making them more productive and much cheaper. Providing the American consumer with cheaper goods and services. This is a win/win, despite all the communists whining. :)
     
  10. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    :banghead:

    :fire:

    :cuss: you, Bush...

    See sig line...
     
  11. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    And pray tell me just who will buy these goods and services when the American middle class no longer exists thanks to asinine proposals such as this??? :confused:

    In other words, all blue collar labor should pay $5/hr???
    'real Americans profit from this'?? So 'real Americans' should be proud of paying wages that aren't enough to live on???

    Son, you need to come off of your ivory tower and get out into 'real America'.

    You'll find that most of us oppose illegal immigration precisely because of the declining wages and standards that follow them around when employers 'cut costs' by using illegals.

    And as far as not being a 'real American' goes, let's see what Teddy Roosevelt had to say on the subjects of property, unions, and immigration.

    I guess TR wasn't a 'real American', eh? :rolleyes:

    Forgot to add:

    Your country's at war and all you can consider is slashing your taxes that are needed to pay for the war.
    :barf:
     
  12. Selfdfenz

    Selfdfenz Member

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    What is it about the Bushs that confuse them so about the peps that elect them. They pxxp on the very people that elect them and seem so unconcerned.

    I think the Bush administartion is totally underestimating the upset this will cause in their core voting block. Totally underestimating.

    Like (one-term) Father...like (one-term) Son I'm afraid.

    S-
     
  13. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Immigration reform, like gun control, is another issue where George W. Bush is significantly to the left of Senator Joe Lieberman. These issues put Bush solidly in the mainstream of Liberal Democratic Party thinking.

    Bush has lost my vote for good.

    More evidence that our current system of government has broken down and no longer serves to meet even the basic functions of a soverign nation.

    Meanwhile, they're ensuring that terrorists can't possibly enter the US by fingerprinting and photographing them at the airports. Sure hope they don't fly into Mexico first then walk across the southern border.
     
  14. HankB

    HankB Member

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    Waitone wrote:
    When it comes to the topics of border security, illegal aliens, etc. . . . never have truer words been written.
     
  15. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Jonesy9:


    What a badly informed, outdated statement. Your thinking is at least 20 years out of date on this issue. The jobs that are now being outsourced, to India for example, are those that pay very high wages here in the US and which require at least a decade or more of college and work experience to become proficient at.

    Or are you saying that the software and hardware engineering jobs that used to pay $70,000 here in the US are somehow undesireable?

    This trend now includes jobs in the legal profession also. Intellectual Property Law firms are now outsourcing high paying jobs to India as well.

    These are not jobs where Unions have inflated the labor costs, instead they are the jobs that most parents in the US strive to provide their children a chance to obtain.
     
  16. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    Worse than what Bush is doing is that he is doing it without public discussion. He is heading off to Mexico City next week to "initiate talks." Say what? Where is the public debate? Where is Congress? WE ARE UNREPRESENTED. In theory this is a Republic. In theory. This is one of the biggest issues affecting this nation's future and Bush-Rove (yes, they are one two-headed mutation) behaves as if we didn't exist. That means ALL of us, including people who can make arguments for open borders. This issue is important enough and complex enough that it should be the page one story every night on the news and should be exhaustively explored. Instead, like more and more things, it is being "handled" furtively, "privately," off the democratic radar screen. This is vile and detestable.

    What ought to happen, if the people of this country were truly empowered, is that the '04 Election should be postponed until our representatives are compelled to confront all of the major issues. All we have seen so far is a series of comical Democrat debates with a slew of candidates tossing quips and insults but managing to avoid amost every major issue that will affect us, our children, and our grandchildren. It's a disgrace.
     
  17. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    What will be both entertaining and terrifying is how many people with full knowledge of this system and its ramifications will STILL vote for Bush because "he is the lesser of two evils."


    WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE NOT GET??? VOTING FOR THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS IS STILL VOTING FOR AN EVIL!!!
     
  18. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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  19. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    This thing has all the trappings of a major policy agenda by Bush.

    First we get Ridge's trail balloon which is quickly poo-poo'd.

    Then we get a series of stories about how Bush is thinking about fixing the problem.

    Followed by well-placed articles in papers of record which are then picked up and spread on internet news sources.

    Then out comes the announcement at the end of last week that on Wednesday of this week (that's tomorrow) Bush will unveil his full plan which coincidently occurrs just before he goes to mexico to talk with Comrade Fox.

    Meanwhile, congressional vermin are beginning to ask questions.
    Opinion outlets are getting really cynical in saying this is pandering votes and not designed to help "hispanics (a made-up term).

    I still can't help but think BushRove are about to make a serious policy misstep.
     
  20. Jonesy9

    Jonesy9 member

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    Congress has been neutured by Bush. This is the most powerful and secretive Executive branch we've ever seen. Maybe there were others years ago but not in my lifetime.


    Glocksman- great post! I'm with you all the way. My diatribe was dripping with sarcasm :)
     
  21. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    My apologies then.

    I took it at face value. :eek:

    The annoying thing is that there are people in business who see things exactly that way. :fire:
     
  22. Jonesy9

    Jonesy9 member

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    yep- I work for a few of them. it's all about a bigger house on Nantucket and filling the coffers of the family trusts. god forbid their daughters talk to anyone whose net worth is less than 9 figures either ;)

    ahhh, the American aristocracy, such a fun group.
     
  23. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    Just curious.......

    Is anyone going to actually wait until the plan is put forward to decide what they think about it.

    No.....oh well......

    Probably not as fun as jumping up and down over what the plan MIGHT be.
     
  24. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Good idea. Waiting is prudent.

    However, when the White House (that'd be DubyaRove) places an article in a major organ (that'd be Washington Post) containing information that can only come from the minds creating the plan, I'd say waiting to jump is not necessary.

    Besides, politicos do this all the time. They schedule a major policy announcement and a few days before they leak provisions in order to get the pundits and various policy leeches keyed up.

    This is the game that is played in moving public opinion. You can bet the WH is twisting arms on capitol hill to blunt public opposition. The reason provisions are leaked is to measure the public attitude. The WH then has time counter the opposition in the minds of only those who count. . . congress.

    Way this thing is playing out makes me thing BushRove knows there is strong public opposition and in order to get is passed BushRove has to kick congressional butt into line.
     
  25. moa

    moa Member

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    I don't care what kind of immigration plan they have, nothing will work as intended because the agency in charge of immigration enforcement is grossly underfunded.

    According to a recent Washington Times series on our very exposed 4,000 mile Canadian border, there are only 2,000 immigration agents to enforce immigration policy inside the 60 mile border buffer zone.

    You can bet the underfunding is probably intentional.

    Those 2,000 agents must round up 400,000 illegals under deportation orders as well as find and arrest the "estimated" 8 to 12 million illegal aliens in the country.

    And, don't expect much resistance in Congress to Bush's plan. With the exception of Congressman Tancredo, virtually everybody on Capitol Hill is too frighten to even discuss illegal aliens even when they kill us by the thousands, and cause many billions of dollars in damages.
     
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