7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
who'da thunk?
You can not have an open welfare state and open borders. It will bankrupt us.
You can not have an open welfare state and open borders. It will bankrupt us.
Bush to Seek Immigrant Benefit Protection
- Thread starter Waitone
- Start date
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Border authorities fear influx from Bush plan
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published January 8, 2004
President Bush's plan to grant guest-worker status and eventual legalization to millions of illegal aliens now in the United States will be difficult, perhaps impossible, to enforce and could spark a new wave of illegal immigration at the nation's already-swamped borders, law-enforcement authorities and others said yesterday.
One veteran Border Patrol official, after listening to the president outline the plan during a White House news conference yesterday, called the proposal "insulting," saying it diminished efforts by agents at America's borders who risk their lives every day to stop illegal immigration.
"Several thousand illegal aliens crossed into the United States as the president spoke to announce his new program, and I assure you, more are on the way," said John Frecker, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council, which represents all 9,000 nonsupervisory Border Patrol employees.
Mr. Frecker said the president's White House announcement should have earned him the Academy Award for best actor, "since about 90 percent of what he said was not true."
"The border is, maybe, 10 percent more secure than it was prior to September 11, but it is still out of control," he said. "Before we do anything else, we need to make sure [that] the border is secure, that illegal aliens in the country are being apprehended and that employer sanctions are being enforced."
Mike Cutler, a retired Immigration and Naturalization Service senior agent who headed major INS investigations into drug trafficking for more than two decades, said the Bush plan is similar to a 1986 amnesty plan that led to the biggest influx of illegal immigration ever.
"We never seem to learn from history," Mr. Cutler said. "This plan, by whatever name they call it, is amnesty and simply rewards people who have already broken the law. It is an open invitation for many others to seek, by whatever means possible, a piece of the pie."
Mr. Bush proposed a broad guest-worker program that would allow the 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens now in the United States to stay without penalty, making them eligible under existing immigration policies to apply for permanent legal residence and citizenship. The plan requires congressional approval.
Illegal immigrants who prove they have jobs can apply to stay in the country legally for three-year renewable terms. Under the plan, they also may bring family members into the United States and enjoy rights now reserved for Americans and for foreigners with permanent-resident status, including Social Security benefits.
Critics of the plan also question whether it is feasible for an already-overburdened immigration enforcement system to handle the millions of applications -- particularly because many of them could include false identity documents. They said only 2,000 agents are available to review the millions of applicants that might be submitted.
"When U.S. immigration officials were tasked with the responsibility of checking immigrants coming into the United States from the Middle East after September 11, it tied up all of INS' resources and caused significant delays," Mr. Cutler said. "When this country had problems trying to properly identify a few thousand people, how is it going to do the same with a few million?"
Mr. Frecker said, "A lot of those people are going to become grandparents before the government gets around to verifying their applications."
The White House steadfastly has denied law-enforcement concerns that the program offers amnesty for illegal aliens, saying it was not an automatic path to citizenship.
But Mr. Frecker noted that it allowed those in the country illegally to remain with no criminal sanctions, adding that "a pig is a pig is a pig." Mr. Cutler also said the plan excludes from prosecution those who already have violated the law by entering the country illegally.
Congress approved an amnesty program in 1986 that gave legal status to 2.7 million illegal aliens. The program contained increased enforcement and penalty policies aimed at ending illegal immigration, although the illegal alien population in the United States today is at least double -- some say more than triple -- the 1986 total.
Dan Stein, executive director of the Federation of American Immigration Reform (FAIR), which seeks to limit annual immigration, said the Bush plan threatens homeland security, grants amnesty to lawbreakers, establishes a "backdoor immigration program" and threatens the jobs and wages of American workers.
"There is little reason to feel confident that, absent a massive infusion of new resources, which is highly unlikely given current fiscal realities, anything approaching thorough background checks can be conducted on applicants for a guest-worker program," he said.
"There is every reason to believe that adding new responsibilities to an overtaxed immigration system will make us less safe."
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published January 8, 2004
President Bush's plan to grant guest-worker status and eventual legalization to millions of illegal aliens now in the United States will be difficult, perhaps impossible, to enforce and could spark a new wave of illegal immigration at the nation's already-swamped borders, law-enforcement authorities and others said yesterday.
One veteran Border Patrol official, after listening to the president outline the plan during a White House news conference yesterday, called the proposal "insulting," saying it diminished efforts by agents at America's borders who risk their lives every day to stop illegal immigration.
"Several thousand illegal aliens crossed into the United States as the president spoke to announce his new program, and I assure you, more are on the way," said John Frecker, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council, which represents all 9,000 nonsupervisory Border Patrol employees.
Mr. Frecker said the president's White House announcement should have earned him the Academy Award for best actor, "since about 90 percent of what he said was not true."
"The border is, maybe, 10 percent more secure than it was prior to September 11, but it is still out of control," he said. "Before we do anything else, we need to make sure [that] the border is secure, that illegal aliens in the country are being apprehended and that employer sanctions are being enforced."
Mike Cutler, a retired Immigration and Naturalization Service senior agent who headed major INS investigations into drug trafficking for more than two decades, said the Bush plan is similar to a 1986 amnesty plan that led to the biggest influx of illegal immigration ever.
"We never seem to learn from history," Mr. Cutler said. "This plan, by whatever name they call it, is amnesty and simply rewards people who have already broken the law. It is an open invitation for many others to seek, by whatever means possible, a piece of the pie."
Mr. Bush proposed a broad guest-worker program that would allow the 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens now in the United States to stay without penalty, making them eligible under existing immigration policies to apply for permanent legal residence and citizenship. The plan requires congressional approval.
Illegal immigrants who prove they have jobs can apply to stay in the country legally for three-year renewable terms. Under the plan, they also may bring family members into the United States and enjoy rights now reserved for Americans and for foreigners with permanent-resident status, including Social Security benefits.
Critics of the plan also question whether it is feasible for an already-overburdened immigration enforcement system to handle the millions of applications -- particularly because many of them could include false identity documents. They said only 2,000 agents are available to review the millions of applicants that might be submitted.
"When U.S. immigration officials were tasked with the responsibility of checking immigrants coming into the United States from the Middle East after September 11, it tied up all of INS' resources and caused significant delays," Mr. Cutler said. "When this country had problems trying to properly identify a few thousand people, how is it going to do the same with a few million?"
Mr. Frecker said, "A lot of those people are going to become grandparents before the government gets around to verifying their applications."
The White House steadfastly has denied law-enforcement concerns that the program offers amnesty for illegal aliens, saying it was not an automatic path to citizenship.
But Mr. Frecker noted that it allowed those in the country illegally to remain with no criminal sanctions, adding that "a pig is a pig is a pig." Mr. Cutler also said the plan excludes from prosecution those who already have violated the law by entering the country illegally.
Congress approved an amnesty program in 1986 that gave legal status to 2.7 million illegal aliens. The program contained increased enforcement and penalty policies aimed at ending illegal immigration, although the illegal alien population in the United States today is at least double -- some say more than triple -- the 1986 total.
Dan Stein, executive director of the Federation of American Immigration Reform (FAIR), which seeks to limit annual immigration, said the Bush plan threatens homeland security, grants amnesty to lawbreakers, establishes a "backdoor immigration program" and threatens the jobs and wages of American workers.
"There is little reason to feel confident that, absent a massive infusion of new resources, which is highly unlikely given current fiscal realities, anything approaching thorough background checks can be conducted on applicants for a guest-worker program," he said.
"There is every reason to believe that adding new responsibilities to an overtaxed immigration system will make us less safe."
longeyes
member
"We have a reviving
economy, but so far it has created few new jobs. Economists were projecting
148,000 new jobs would be created in December, but only 1,000 new jobs were
reported."
The reason is deep structural changes in the economy. Higher productivity--aka computerization--means we do more with less, and with fewer. A lot of jobs we had we don't have and don't need any more. That will be more true in the future. A lot of jobs just aren't coming back, ever. Eventually, robotics will begin to displace even the menial jobs.
economy, but so far it has created few new jobs. Economists were projecting
148,000 new jobs would be created in December, but only 1,000 new jobs were
reported."
The reason is deep structural changes in the economy. Higher productivity--aka computerization--means we do more with less, and with fewer. A lot of jobs we had we don't have and don't need any more. That will be more true in the future. A lot of jobs just aren't coming back, ever. Eventually, robotics will begin to displace even the menial jobs.
Longeyes, you may be correct.
However, some analysts say that overly cheap labor, both domestic and foreign, can stifle innovation and invention.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that when writing contracts for overseas manufacturing in places like China, the bids do not even bother to factor in labor costs.
It is an interesting statistic that the USA leads the world in one major category. That is the amount of energy used to provide $1 million of product. USA uses less energy than any other nation in that category. China and many other low cost countries are polluting themselves to death because they are inefficient users of energy.
However, some analysts say that overly cheap labor, both domestic and foreign, can stifle innovation and invention.
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that when writing contracts for overseas manufacturing in places like China, the bids do not even bother to factor in labor costs.
It is an interesting statistic that the USA leads the world in one major category. That is the amount of energy used to provide $1 million of product. USA uses less energy than any other nation in that category. China and many other low cost countries are polluting themselves to death because they are inefficient users of energy.
Waitone
Member
Careful! Don't fall into the trap varous talking heads tend to drop into.
I don't have the exact URL but the Bureau of Labor Statistics has a page of definitions. If you look up the definition of productivity according to the BLS you'll find out that one of about 4 or 5 imputs into the definition is "purchased business services." In other words the definition of productivity includes the ability of a company to stop performing work inside a company and send it to the outside.
So what's happening to productivity? Dropping of barriers to exiting the US labor market has permitted US companies to oursource services from lower labor cost areas of the world.
Computerization has a minor part in improving productivity. There is nothing is current technology or current management techniques that permits US corporations to have month over month improvements in productivity. Buy a computer? Fine that's a one time improvement. Rearrange work flow? Fine that is a one time improvement. Neither improvement can continue month after month after month.
What will increase productivity figures is a month after month decision contract outside services. The only other way to provide month after month improvement is to continually cut back internally. First you cut back in the mail room because the receptionist can sort mail between calls. Then you can cut back the receptionist because the phone system can do the same job. If a custom insists on talking to a human being, the call can be transfered to the sales secretary who can also sort the mail. What do we need a sales secretary for when we can combine the secretarial functions of sales and marketing into one person who can also sort the mail. . . . . .My point is productivity numbers are increasing to some extent because we are eviscerating companies. Every month something else is being cut off and thrown out.
My opinion? Improvements in productivity are slightly influenced by technology upgrades and organizational restructuring. Most of the improvements has to do with outsourcing business services. What are business services? Everything from paying Swisher to clean latrines to shutting down factories in Podunk, IL and sending the work to Vietnam or Cambodia.
Do not, I repeat, do not fall for the "improving productivity of the American worker" argument as the reason for fewer jobs being created. Just another example of newspeak.
Edited to add:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/homch10_a.htm
The multifactor productivity indexes for major sectors measure the value-added output per combined unit of labor and capital input in private business and private nonfarm business. Multifactor productivity indexes for aggregate manufacturing and for 20 manufacturing industries provide measures of sector output per combined unit of capital (K), labor (L), energy (E), materials (M), and purchased business services (S) inputs—KLEMS inputs.
fix
Member
It's quite simple really. You have two political forces. One who serves the rich and powerful, and one who serves the poor. The rich and powerful want to get more of the same. The poor want to be rich and powerful but are too stupid to realize that the political force they support really WANTS them to stay poor and thus, dependent. The middle class tends to hurt both causes so the assault on the middle class continues no matter which force is in power. Meanwhile the middle class continues to split their vote between the two based on ancillary issues which do nothing to further their own cause. The middle class keeps this country free. The upper class always wants more power and the lower class is always being duped by liars that promise to make them middle class by way of wealth re-distribution. Of course, there are also complicated dynamics within the middle class as well. These usually involve those folks who made themselves middle class through hard work but still identify with the lower class and those who were born upper middle class but fancy themselves as upper class because they have lived comfortably their whole lives. The vast majority of the middle class were born that way, and are fighting tooth and nail to stay that way. These folks are the backbone of the country, and they are disappearing at an alarming rate.
Waitone, good point and very true. What you cited is very much of the IT world I work in. Outsource functions and import educated foreigners who will work cheaper, but not necessarily any more efficiently. In some instances these imported and outsource employees are less efficient in output per hour, but they cost much less by the hour.
longeyes
member
Waitone,
I think both improving technology and outsourcing are factors in what we are experiencing.
What I know is we are not going to be rescued by massive importation of unskilled, uneducated labor at this time in our history any more than we will be by outsourcing high-paying jobs, for marginal bottom-line improvements.
We have three billion people on the margins. Globalization is the great equalizer, just like Mr. Colt's invention.
What is to be done? As the man said.
I think both improving technology and outsourcing are factors in what we are experiencing.
What I know is we are not going to be rescued by massive importation of unskilled, uneducated labor at this time in our history any more than we will be by outsourcing high-paying jobs, for marginal bottom-line improvements.
We have three billion people on the margins. Globalization is the great equalizer, just like Mr. Colt's invention.
What is to be done? As the man said.
Fix, I heard the conservative author Richard Poe say exactly the same thing on the G. Gordon Liddy program.
Poe says radical forces always want to destroy the middle class because the middle class is the mainstay and anchor of society and most resistant to radical changes.
To defeat the middle class you must destroy it. Poe mentioned three ways this is done:
1. Levy such heavy taxes that the middle class have to work their tails off to maintain their lifestyle, or even survival, thus distracting them.
2. Introduce and promote as much cultural distortions as possible such as porno, promiscuity, anti-religion, political correctness and the like.
3. Disarm the middle class, gun control being the tool. Make them too weak to fight.
Maybe you just mentioned a fourth way. Take away their jobs and livelihood and give those jobs to illegals and foreigners. And, leave that as threat to others.
And, maybe a fifth way is to overrun the country with illegal aliens in such numbers that they become a major and exponential component of serious crime that the middle class will surrender their rights for protection, e.g. radical change.
Poe says radical forces always want to destroy the middle class because the middle class is the mainstay and anchor of society and most resistant to radical changes.
To defeat the middle class you must destroy it. Poe mentioned three ways this is done:
1. Levy such heavy taxes that the middle class have to work their tails off to maintain their lifestyle, or even survival, thus distracting them.
2. Introduce and promote as much cultural distortions as possible such as porno, promiscuity, anti-religion, political correctness and the like.
3. Disarm the middle class, gun control being the tool. Make them too weak to fight.
Maybe you just mentioned a fourth way. Take away their jobs and livelihood and give those jobs to illegals and foreigners. And, leave that as threat to others.
And, maybe a fifth way is to overrun the country with illegal aliens in such numbers that they become a major and exponential component of serious crime that the middle class will surrender their rights for protection, e.g. radical change.
Waitone
Member
There is a theory popular amongst the textile industry vets (or victims) that says the US fully realizes its cost of living is entirely too high to compete in a global market. Solution to the problem is to reboot the cost of living so that it comes back up in line with global standards.
How so? Export manufacturing, not just the jobs. Export knowledge based positions linked to file transfers. Import people who will willingly live on the margins of US society for a shot at a better life. Use those people to lower entry level wages and eliminate direct costs of employing people on the low end of the ladder. Import highly skill workers on a temporary basis and use their presence to scare the hell out of anyone who thinks they want a pay raise.
Amnesty for illegal aliens will reduce the direct cost of employing labor in the US. Outsourcing overseas will reduce the cost of doing business in the US. No health costs, no environmental costs, no safety costs, and no litigation risk.
Theory goes, once the US labor market has been destroyed, congress will rewrite tax law to make is attractive to bring jobs back into the US. . . . at a vastly reduced cost or corporation.
Meanwhile, government at all levels has not reduced its take by one red dime.
That's what textile vets think is going on.
How so? Export manufacturing, not just the jobs. Export knowledge based positions linked to file transfers. Import people who will willingly live on the margins of US society for a shot at a better life. Use those people to lower entry level wages and eliminate direct costs of employing people on the low end of the ladder. Import highly skill workers on a temporary basis and use their presence to scare the hell out of anyone who thinks they want a pay raise.
Amnesty for illegal aliens will reduce the direct cost of employing labor in the US. Outsourcing overseas will reduce the cost of doing business in the US. No health costs, no environmental costs, no safety costs, and no litigation risk.
Theory goes, once the US labor market has been destroyed, congress will rewrite tax law to make is attractive to bring jobs back into the US. . . . at a vastly reduced cost or corporation.
Meanwhile, government at all levels has not reduced its take by one red dime.
That's what textile vets think is going on.
fix
Member
The textile vet theory is far fetched because it would require something resembling forward thinking on the part of the government. Much too complicated IMO.
Waitone,
Who does the pressure to increase the minimum wage figure into the textile workers theory? As soon as we got a democratic administration in state government here, minimum wage shot up and is going to keep going up. This isn't going to encourage employers to hire anyone, legal or not.
Jeff
Who does the pressure to increase the minimum wage figure into the textile workers theory? As soon as we got a democratic administration in state government here, minimum wage shot up and is going to keep going up. This isn't going to encourage employers to hire anyone, legal or not.
Jeff
Waitone
Member
Joe and Jose are standing side by side in front of HR looking for a low end job.
Joe has to be paid minimum wage, 1/2 of his social security costs, medicaid tax, workman's comp, ad nauseum
Jose gets paid ?. No benefits, no nuthin'. Jose doesn't show on the books.
Figure out what happens to prevailing wages on the low end.
For the record I think the textile theory is way off base but elements of it are quite accurate.
Whether or not we are looking at a government mandated reboot is irrelevant. What is important is the US is in the process of destroying the middle class and simultaneously desroying its tax base. The ruling class has yet to figure out tax revenues will eventually fall.
Joe has to be paid minimum wage, 1/2 of his social security costs, medicaid tax, workman's comp, ad nauseum
Jose gets paid ?. No benefits, no nuthin'. Jose doesn't show on the books.
Figure out what happens to prevailing wages on the low end.
For the record I think the textile theory is way off base but elements of it are quite accurate.
Whether or not we are looking at a government mandated reboot is irrelevant. What is important is the US is in the process of destroying the middle class and simultaneously desroying its tax base. The ruling class has yet to figure out tax revenues will eventually fall.
Waitone, there is a snag there.
By not hiring a qualified American, the employer is potentially violating Federal Labor law based upon discrimination of national orgin.
Also, if Jose is an illegal alien, and the employer knowingly hires Jose, especially if not checking his documents, then the employer is violating another Federal law. This violation may include jail time for the employer.
If Jose is using a "stolen" Social Security number, Jose probably is in violation of Federal law.
By not hiring a qualified American, the employer is potentially violating Federal Labor law based upon discrimination of national orgin.
Also, if Jose is an illegal alien, and the employer knowingly hires Jose, especially if not checking his documents, then the employer is violating another Federal law. This violation may include jail time for the employer.
If Jose is using a "stolen" Social Security number, Jose probably is in violation of Federal law.
fix
Member
Not if Jose has been granted amnesty due to his former employment at the chicken plant.:banghead:
seeker_two
Member
In regard to technology taking away more jobs than illegal aliens...
In Ancient Greece, a philosopher named Hero invented the first steam-powered engine. Even in its crude form, it was able to power a number of items (pulleys, towing, oars, etc.). However, it was relegated to a novelty item by Greek society.
Reason: slave labor was so cheap that no one saw any need to change.
We're in the same boat now, folks. Illegal aliens are the new slave class. Not because Americans won't take the same jobs, but because Americans won't take the same jobs for $2 an hour & depend on Medicaid & welfare for the rest. Illegals will. And big buisness & Dubuya is more than happy to let them... :banghead:
Remember what finally happened to the Greeks? "Those who don't remember history....."
In Ancient Greece, a philosopher named Hero invented the first steam-powered engine. Even in its crude form, it was able to power a number of items (pulleys, towing, oars, etc.). However, it was relegated to a novelty item by Greek society.
Reason: slave labor was so cheap that no one saw any need to change.
We're in the same boat now, folks. Illegal aliens are the new slave class. Not because Americans won't take the same jobs, but because Americans won't take the same jobs for $2 an hour & depend on Medicaid & welfare for the rest. Illegals will. And big buisness & Dubuya is more than happy to let them... :banghead:
Remember what finally happened to the Greeks? "Those who don't remember history....."
longeyes
member
Illegal aliens are not the new slave class. The American taxpayer is.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Amen to that. I am starting my taxes for this year. And I am not afraid to say that I am really PO'd :banghead: 
longeyes
member
Next week's meeting in Mexico City ought to provide oodles of thrills and spills. I can hardly wait.
Waitone
Member
We will see only happy faces and hear blather about common goals to make life better for immigrants.
We will not hear the plan nor the reason for the plan nor the timing of the plan.
Most importantly we will hear nothing of the reason for Bush's seemingly insane proposal. My experience is if a politician puts out something that borders on the insane there is consistency and logic; just not where I'm looking.
We will not hear the plan nor the reason for the plan nor the timing of the plan.
Most importantly we will hear nothing of the reason for Bush's seemingly insane proposal. My experience is if a politician puts out something that borders on the insane there is consistency and logic; just not where I'm looking.
spartacus2002
Member
My fears are one or more of the following coming to pass:
1. Police officers get false calls and ambushed in cities in which people feel like the cops abuse them.
2. Anti-mexican violence rises sharply, especially in high black/white unemployement areas. Look at the English experience, where roving bands of poor, unemployed urban whites beat up immigrants and minorities.
3. Vigilante groups go down to the southern border and start sniping border crossers on known ingress trails.
4. Welfare offices become the abortion clinics of the 2000s, with protestors, bombings, and snipings.
5. Another McVeigh-style explosion, except this time at a La RAza office.
6. 5. above, except at an IRS building.
I'm not advocating any of the above, just making educated guesses based on study of history, human nature, and current events.
1. Police officers get false calls and ambushed in cities in which people feel like the cops abuse them.
2. Anti-mexican violence rises sharply, especially in high black/white unemployement areas. Look at the English experience, where roving bands of poor, unemployed urban whites beat up immigrants and minorities.
3. Vigilante groups go down to the southern border and start sniping border crossers on known ingress trails.
4. Welfare offices become the abortion clinics of the 2000s, with protestors, bombings, and snipings.
5. Another McVeigh-style explosion, except this time at a La RAza office.
6. 5. above, except at an IRS building.
I'm not advocating any of the above, just making educated guesses based on study of history, human nature, and current events.
hardhead
Member
Your observations have been made by others also, notably by Thomas Chittum in his book "Civil War II".
In addition to controlling the borders, one of the things that needs attention is the overbearing cost of hiring 'legal' employees. Govt rules make it so expensive to hire and maintain employees, that illegals, in addition to lower wages, don't have all of the administrative costs associated with 'legals'. This alone is a huge incentive for employers, all other things being equal.
Although I don't ever want to see it, I think that history will repeat it'self, and the US culture will turn really violent. Due to the nature of todays instant communication, and high speed travel, I also think that it's a lot closer than most people think.
In addition to controlling the borders, one of the things that needs attention is the overbearing cost of hiring 'legal' employees. Govt rules make it so expensive to hire and maintain employees, that illegals, in addition to lower wages, don't have all of the administrative costs associated with 'legals'. This alone is a huge incentive for employers, all other things being equal.
Although I don't ever want to see it, I think that history will repeat it'self, and the US culture will turn really violent. Due to the nature of todays instant communication, and high speed travel, I also think that it's a lot closer than most people think.
longeyes
member
Spartacus,
I'm sure you know that the kinds of tumult you are concerned will come to pass have already taken place, though so far the aggression has been toward the Anglo/gringo persuasion. Border incidents are common and well-documented. About a year ago, it was reported that members of American Patrol were assaulted after a meeting in Santa Ana, CA; they were set upon in the adjacent parking lot by community members who didn't like their message . It was also reported that representatives of the Santa Ana Police Dept. looked on and did nothing. I wasn't there and can't confirm it but have heard Glenn Spenser discuss this on talk radio here in Los Angeles.
I think we all hope that these issues can be resolved without violence but certainly these are matters where feelings run high and where government representatives have failed to provide an adequate response to head off nastiness.
I'm sure you know that the kinds of tumult you are concerned will come to pass have already taken place, though so far the aggression has been toward the Anglo/gringo persuasion. Border incidents are common and well-documented. About a year ago, it was reported that members of American Patrol were assaulted after a meeting in Santa Ana, CA; they were set upon in the adjacent parking lot by community members who didn't like their message . It was also reported that representatives of the Santa Ana Police Dept. looked on and did nothing. I wasn't there and can't confirm it but have heard Glenn Spenser discuss this on talk radio here in Los Angeles.
I think we all hope that these issues can be resolved without violence but certainly these are matters where feelings run high and where government representatives have failed to provide an adequate response to head off nastiness.
spartacus2002
Member
Longeyes,
I knew about the burglaries, range damage, and environmental damage along the southern borders, but not about the American Patrol incident.
I heard today on the radio that some pro-immigrant groups are pushing Congress to provide college benefits for "children of undocumented workers." How insane and PC have we become when we are trying to give American's tax $ away to illegal invaders?? God bless anyone who wants to come to America to work hard and provide for their families, but not on my involuntarily coerced dime.
I knew about the burglaries, range damage, and environmental damage along the southern borders, but not about the American Patrol incident.
I heard today on the radio that some pro-immigrant groups are pushing Congress to provide college benefits for "children of undocumented workers." How insane and PC have we become when we are trying to give American's tax $ away to illegal invaders?? God bless anyone who wants to come to America to work hard and provide for their families, but not on my involuntarily coerced dime.
- Status
