Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Bushmaster ACR = Failure?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Matt304, Aug 21, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    So would you all agree that the ACR became a failure with Bushmaster taking over the design and jacking the price up?

    The price on these guns is over $2000. I believe that price is too high. When I type in Bushmaster ACR on Gunbroker, out of ALL the guns, there is only 1 single bid. That bid is at $1600. It appears people agree with me.

    I would buy a POF before a plastic Bushmaster at that price.

    So what's going to happen with this gun, do you think Bushmaster will be forced to lower the price? :confused:
     
  2. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4,347
    Location:
    Yakutsk, Sakha Republic
    I think Bushmaster will be forced to rebuild the ACR into the Masada.

    Tips for Shrubby:
    -use a real barrel
    -better ambi safety
    -folding stock
    -rifle length forgrips and throw in some Moe rails

    A $2000 Masada would be flying out the door. A $2k ACr, not so much. Bushy wasn't paying attention to what customers wanted. Shame Magpul decided not to sell rifles.

    Then again it deosn't do anything that a custom Ar deosn't allready do better.

    The LMT .308 and Larue OBR are eating all of shrubbies sales.
     
  3. ThePunisher'sArmory

    ThePunisher'sArmory Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    888
    Location:
    Belleville, Il
    Its their anwser to the FN SCAR. I for one would not buy either. Ill stick with my old M4s. Lastly yes they should both lower their prices.
     
  4. Dionysusigma

    Dionysusigma Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Messages:
    3,671
    Location:
    Okay City
    It's notably heavier than the SCAR, too. I got the rare chance to handle both side by side the other day, due to a stroke of luck the local shop had. I agree with TPA--I wouldn't buy either of them, since 1) they both throw the same caliber downrange as two other rifles I own do, 2) they do it just as accurately, 3) they do it just as reliably, and 4) they do it just as fast. Also, 5) for what I already have, I can get spare parts, 6) they're a proven design by a major military, 7) they're 1/3 the price, and 8) I was able to assemble them myself.

    The only thing the SCAR or ACR seem to have going for them is that they look like something out of a movie or video game. And for me, that's not enough.
     
  5. brian923

    brian923 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    676
    I think Magpul saw into the future... What I mean is that they were building a rifle that was going to compete in the military tryout for a new rifle to replace the M4. When they saw that tons of manufatures were offering similar caliber rifles that don't have any significant offering over the M4, they found someone to dump the rifle on to break out even at the bank. Along comes bushmaster... And the rest is history. I do think that if they brought the price down to even high quality AR price levels, ($1200-$1500) I'd bet they'd fly off the shelves becasue of the cool factor and all the video gamers... That's why I want one! the ACR kicks ass in MW2! ;)
     
  6. LHRGunslinger

    LHRGunslinger Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    660
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    May I point out that Bushmaster is ONLY producing the CIVILIAN version of the ACR. Remington is manufacturing the MILITARY version.
     
  7. W L Johnson

    W L Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Kentucky
    They're both owned by the same company which also owns DPMS.
     
  8. 12131

    12131 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,541
    Location:
    God's Country (TEXAS)
    As long as the ACR and SCAR hover around $2k, not many will buy.
     
  9. Carter

    Carter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,434
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I like my XCR over both of them...but I'm weird.
     
  10. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    4,047
    Location:
    Michigan
    It also came out what, like 4 years earlier? I wonder why it doesn't get more attention.

    The ACR as it now exists is DOA. Shrubbie will get a few fanboy sales, but people wanting a serious rifle in 5.56 will be buying the SCAR, or just getting a pair or even trio of high-end AR15s for the same money.

    The ACR would be very good, not quite great, at under $1000. There's nothing in its design or materials that should require an average retail price over $700. I'll bet it's significantly easier to put together than a Ruger Mini-14, not to mention a standard AR. Yes, R&D and tooling costs money, but that money has already been sunk, might as well pay it off in a couple years at a modest profit then try to get a 70% profit margin and good luck ever paying it off.
     
  11. Carter

    Carter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,434
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Its under gone various upgrades and changes since then, and their .308 version is just now about to come out.
    I haven't owned mine too long, but its an amazing rifle. However, due to company problems the market for it gets extremely limited. It also seems to be more of a cult classic. The price is very nice compared to the other options though.
     
  12. Juice Boxes

    Juice Boxes Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2009
    Messages:
    104
    The unenhanced version made the design fail on the civilian market.
     
  13. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4,347
    Location:
    Yakutsk, Sakha Republic
    Oh there's a great marketing stategy. Make the civvy rifle way worse than the milspec. Bushy sure is out of touch. Deos anyone at Bushy actually shoot anything anymore?

    I mean nobody wants a milspec Ar15 right? Wait never mind, Bushys AR's kind stink right now as well. So I guess they are just way out of touch.

    Masada.
     
  14. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    4,452
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    A marketing failure, yes.

    Is the ACR itself a failure? I don't think it is.

    The fact is that if you consider all the specs of the ACR (especially the enhanced version) you would be spending close to the same amount if you were to buy a gas piston AR with the same specs. People are basing whether or not the ACR is worth the money based on budget Bushmaster AR models that offer a whole lot less than the ACR does. If the enhanced version of the ACR sold for around $1,800 and basic version for around $1,500 I would say that they would be a bargain when you consider what you are getting.

    What I think really hurts the ACR has nothing to do with the design or cost of the gun, it has to do with the Bushmaster name that's associated with it. Most people associate Bushmaster with producing mid to bottom tier AR's and that reputation is being applied to the ACR.

    Honestly ask yourself this. If the ACR was being manufactured exactly the same as it is now by Colt, LMT or LWRC for the same price that it's going for now would you be so quick to say that it's overpriced?

    Actually I have to disagree highly on this. Both the Masada(ACR) and the SCAR offer a number of innovative design features that make them highly desirable, especially to the military. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the AR-15/M16 and always will be but the SCAR and Masada/ACR do have a lot going for them and I can understand why the military is interested in them. There's nothing really wrong with the AR design but there is room for improvement and I think both the Masada and SCAR capitalize upon that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  15. yongxingfreesty

    yongxingfreesty Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,396
    It's fail to me. Just like the scar and sig 556.
     
  16. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,746
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    They killed it with the pricing.

    There is a market out there for expensive military type rifles. Its not uncommon for someone to drop 2k on an AR-15. But these 2k dollar Noveske, KAC, LWRCi, LMT etc... are not your run of the mill rifles. The people that pay for these want the proven reliability, many times from combat, that these rifles provide.

    Any of these guys looking to step out of the AR world are probably going to go with the SCAR as it has shown itself reliable in combat. Combat will show the weak parts of a design with a quickness. The SCAR has been through it, the ACR has not.
     
  17. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    Well, I think the biggest issue with the ACR right now is the weight. 8+ pounds for a rifle made out of aluminium and plastic is not only puzzling, it is something that will guarantee the rifle never gets accepted by the military.

    As to the pricing issues, here is how I see it. The ACR was built to compete for the M4 replacement trials. As a result, price had to be high (to guarantee price flexibility during the competition). Bushmaster took a gamble that consumers would be so eager to buy the ACR that they would pay top dollar for a rifle that still wasn't completely ready for prime time. They certainly had no shortage of people screaming at them about not releasing the ACR. However, at the end of the day, people realized that for $2,600, they could live just fine without most of the features the ACR offered.

    Having had a chance to handle the SCAR and ACR side by side, I think the ACR has the better ergonomics of the two rifles. Sadly, the SCAR has the better balance, less weight, and I'd trust FN's ability to produce a reliable weapon long before I would trust Bushmaster or Remington's ability. However, I think the ACR still has some potential. It just hasn't been realized yet and won't until the M4 trials are over.
     
  18. Prion

    Prion Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    New England
    The one and only ACR in a shop in my area has been sitting for months now. No way am I paying that much for it. In fact, I don't really want one at any price.
     
  19. 52grain

    52grain Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    664
    It's probably too early to tell if the ACR is DOA, but if Rhododendronwerks doesn't change some things (like the price and features), it won't be around too long.
     
  20. Hatterasguy

    Hatterasguy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,604
    I saw one at the range, and talked to the owner about it for awhile. My impression is that its like a SCAR just no where near as good. Plus its heavy, and made by Bushmaster. FN is a better company with a more proven track record of military rifles, they have a very long history of making some the best rifles around. Side by side the ACR just didn't do it for me, didn't feel as good as the SCAR or a nice AR for that matter.

    I wouldn't even consider buying one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  21. Mags

    Mags Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3,235
    Location:
    Belgium
    There has been a FDE basic model sitting in my favorite shop for 1650 for a few months now. Every time I talk to the shop keep about the ACR he tells me for the weight I should get an AR in 308.
     
  22. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,486
    $1,500 tops for an infantry rifle. These new rifles, in my opinion, offer nothing worth the asking price.

    The way they market these "ergonomic/ambidextrious" features is as if you're going to be clearing buildings by yourself. It's unrealistic and silly, and definitely not worth the 2K+++ price.

    The only great features are the barrel change ability and operating systems. I figure the op systems have been refined as to not beat up the bolt carrier group, and the barrel change capability allows for changing the weapons purpose without buying another one, saving you $$$.
     
  23. Blakenzy

    Blakenzy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Messages:
    904
    Speaking strictly as a consumer, the first impression I got from the ACR is that it was an attempt to cash in on the SCAR buzz and that it would fill the niche as a "poorman's" alternative to the expensive SCAR in the civilian market. However, they totally...TOTALLY blew that opportunity with the asking price.
     
  24. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,486
    I don't understand why the XCR doesn't pop up in internet forums much, considering it offers exactly what is wanted in a next gen rifle but at a lower price............oh that's right, it's never been in a video game.
     
  25. nwilliams

    nwilliams Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    4,452
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    I agree completely, however I don't think the ergonomics of the SCAR are bad by any means.

    I really wanted an ACR until I was able to compare it side by side with the SCAR, once I did I knew there was no question that I would take the SCAR over the ACR without thinking twice about it. Besides the SCAR that the shop was selling was just a little more than the ACR so really it was a no brainer. I'm a huge fan of FN products and I know that my SCAR is going to function and be reliable. I ended up selling three guns in order to finally fund my SCAR but they were three guns I didn't really care too much for anyway so there was no love lost.

    The one thing that that really bugged me about the ACR that I handled was the length of the fixed stock, it seemed way too short for me. I think if I would have handled the enhanced version of the ACR I would have liked it a lot better.

    I would certainly never say that I will never own an ACR. As I mentioned earlier there is a lot to admire about the design and features of the ACR and for those who want something different in their collection besides and AR and without shelling out big bucks for a SCAR or FS2000 the ACR will fill the gap nicely I think, once the price of the enhanced version drops below $2k.

    For now I'm going to stick with my AR, MSAR and SCAR but at some point in the future I can see an ACR joining the heard as well.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page